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Why 'Macs' are virus free






What do use? Mac or PC
PC
87%
 87%  [ 14 ]
Mac
12%
 12%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 16

Asap170
Well I don't own a Mac and will never own one. I believe that they are horrible, but that's just my opinion. But the main point of the topic is why Macs are virus free unlike PCs. It goes like this:

Most companies use Windows (PC) because they are just more user friendly I would say. Unlike how Macs are mostly used for video editing, but I don't see why. And Hackers usually care about valuable information that are in businesses. So it's not like that Macs are ipentiable (Sorry on spelling there), but it's the Hackers who don't care to get into a Mac.

And that basically sums up why. There is nothing valuable on Macs (Most of the time)....
Diablosblizz
Agreed, yet I can't help but bring this up:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9129978/Researcher_cracks_Mac_in_10_seconds_at_PWN2OWN_wins_5k

Yep, Mac people are totally greater than us Windows folk.
Asap170
Diablosblizz wrote:
Agreed, yet I can't help but bring this up:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9129978/Researcher_cracks_Mac_in_10_seconds_at_PWN2OWN_wins_5k

Yep, Mac people are totally greater than us Windows folk.


Haha and now you made me think of this. Why is the IpodTouch when you Mod it it's called "Jail Breaking" I mean come on that is so lame. Don't get me wrong or anything, but your not "Breaking someone out of jail". Atleast give it it's rightful name "Hacked". Bob says: "I hacked my IpodTouch".
badai
17 or 18 years ago, i used mac, they do got viruses. when it detect virus, a "window" will pop up full with 010101010 and ask us to submit it.

i'm not sure if it is the anti virus, or the OS itself that detect the virus.

i can't remember if it will format the floppy disk if it got virus, but the worst part is it will format the floppy disk if it's in DOS format, so a lot of people will lost their assignment.

oh, it will not automatically format it anyway, it will ask if you want to initialize the disk, and since a lot of people don't know what it mean, we all just click yes. at first, most lecturers will give you extra time to do your assignment again, but when a lot of people just bluffing, then you will get 0 if you don't submit your assignment on time after your floppy get formatted.
badai
you are "breaking" the user from mac "restrictive jail".

Asap170 wrote:
Diablosblizz wrote:
Agreed, yet I can't help but bring this up:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9129978/Researcher_cracks_Mac_in_10_seconds_at_PWN2OWN_wins_5k

Yep, Mac people are totally greater than us Windows folk.


Haha and now you made me think of this. Why is the IpodTouch when you Mod it it's called "Jail Breaking" I mean come on that is so lame. Don't get me wrong or anything, but your not "Breaking someone out of jail". Atleast give it it's rightful name "Hacked". Bob says: "I hacked my IpodTouch".
Asap170
badai wrote:
you are "breaking" the user from mac "restrictive jail".

Asap170 wrote:
Diablosblizz wrote:
Agreed, yet I can't help but bring this up:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9129978/Researcher_cracks_Mac_in_10_seconds_at_PWN2OWN_wins_5k

Yep, Mac people are totally greater than us Windows folk.


Haha and now you made me think of this. Why is the IpodTouch when you Mod it it's called "Jail Breaking" I mean come on that is so lame. Don't get me wrong or anything, but your not "Breaking someone out of jail". Atleast give it it's rightful name "Hacked". Bob says: "I hacked my IpodTouch".


Still think the name is stupid....my opinion though.....
badai
oh, i think you never heard of "jailbreak" term before.

jailbreak is not just referring to iphone. jailbreak is a general term for all electronic devices, where you escalated the privilege. the term originated from "chroot jail". and chroot is "change root", which mean you changed your root folder into another folder and you can see only that folder instead of the whole system under the real root.

for example, under real root you see:

/--folder1
|
|--folder2
|
|--folder3


if you chroot to folder1, you only see what under folder1, and you will never know folder2 and folder3 exist --- you are locked, in jail of folder 1. so when you jailbreak, you broke out of folder1 and see the real root.

that's the origin of jailbreak term. and you use that term for all kind of electronic devices when you manage to do something more than the manufacturer allowed.

my answer about "breaking the user free" just a rhetoric, i just feel mac users are bit .... hmm, mentally challenged.
misterXY
IMO, macs are just as easy, maybe even easier, too write viruses then windows, just no one cares. Macs = fisher price computers.
Ankhanu
As a user of all three major platforms, you people are largely talking out your butts Razz
There ARE Mac viruses, just not very many of them. Part of this is for the reason stated above; most computers are running Windows, they're a big target demographic; Macs and Linux systems are much smaller demographics. Part of it is the Unix base to MacOS, much like Linux. In order for a virus to really get in and do anything to a Mac or Linux system, it needs admin access; it's a little easier to crack into with Windows (by default) than on a Mac or Linux, where the system prompts for a root/admin password to make any system changes. Add in to that that so much of the core of the OS is proprietary and hidden from developers, and it removes another layer of likelihood of a virus being well written (It's kind of the polar opposite of the Linux situation where everything is so transparent that virus fixes would be very easy to detect, making virus coding kind of a waste of time).

As for system/OS capabilty, OS is no less robust nor capable than Windows or Linux; it's designed differently than either. Each OS has its strengths and weaknesses, they're each better at different things... but for most users they're all equally capable of doing everything they need. The only real difference for most people is the aesthetic of the interface, NOT capability.
badai
so you not using your butt too?

you not only write from butt, but read from butt too. nobody here even said mac is virus free, and i explicitly wrote about mac's virus on the 4th post.



Ankhanu wrote:
As a user of all three major platforms, you people are largely talking out your butts Razz
There ARE Mac viruses, just not very many of them. Part of this is for the reason stated above; most computers are running Windows, they're a big target demographic; Macs and Linux systems are much smaller demographics. Part of it is the Unix base to MacOS, much like Linux. In order for a virus to really get in and do anything to a Mac or Linux system, it needs admin access; it's a little easier to crack into with Windows (by default) than on a Mac or Linux, where the system prompts for a root/admin password to make any system changes. Add in to that that so much of the core of the OS is proprietary and hidden from developers, and it removes another layer of likelihood of a virus being well written (It's kind of the polar opposite of the Linux situation where everything is so transparent that virus fixes would be very easy to detect, making virus coding kind of a waste of time).

As for system/OS capabilty, OS is no less robust nor capable than Windows or Linux; it's designed differently than either. Each OS has its strengths and weaknesses, they're each better at different things... but for most users they're all equally capable of doing everything they need. The only real difference for most people is the aesthetic of the interface, NOT capability.
Fire Boar
badai wrote:
17 or 18 years ago, i used mac, they do got viruses. when it detect virus, a "window" will pop up full with 010101010 and ask us to submit it.

i'm not sure if it is the anti virus, or the OS itself that detect the virus.

i can't remember if it will format the floppy disk if it got virus, but the worst part is it will format the floppy disk if it's in DOS format, so a lot of people will lost their assignment.

oh, it will not automatically format it anyway, it will ask if you want to initialize the disk, and since a lot of people don't know what it mean, we all just click yes. at first, most lecturers will give you extra time to do your assignment again, but when a lot of people just bluffing, then you will get 0 if you don't submit your assignment on time after your floppy get formatted.


17 or 18 years ago, Mac didn't run OS X, that is, it wasn't based on UNIX. Things are a bit different now, and viruses are much more difficult to write in the more hostile environment that is a UNIX-based operating system. Still, if someone would like to show that there is a virus for Mac OS X that affects current systems, please provide some tangible evidence, like a source.
Ankhanu
badai wrote:
so you not using your butt too?

you not only write from butt, but read from butt too. nobody here even said mac is virus free, and i explicitly wrote about mac's virus on the 4th post.


Not gonna lie, some of what I said I pulled outta my butt, it's true, but it's relatively valid. Regarding your Mac virus, see the content of my post, and Fire Boar's. Yeah, they exist, but they're pretty much irrelevant.

As for no one saying Macs are virus free... what's the title of the thread?? The OP alluded to the idea, and that's what the tread started with before you guys got into jailbreaking. Yes, I know that it was more of a statement as to why Windows is better than MacOS because there are more copies of Windows installed.

But, my "talking out your butts" comment was largely based on silly biases towards OSes. Believe it or not, this isn't /b/ and sometimes unfounded opinions are called out as being foolishly biases and ignorant. The stupid biasing was based more on the comments from posters like Asap and XY than your own, however.

I would venture that people who use multiple OSes don't tend to find any of them restrictive, except in one or two key areas, DirectX dependent 3D gaming, or specific software requirements, for example. For most user needs any OS will cover them just fine these days; it's hardware rather than software that I find causes the greatest limitations... even then the same caveat applies Razz
misterXY
Fire Boar wrote:
badai wrote:
17 or 18 years ago, i used mac, they do got viruses. when it detect virus, a "window" will pop up full with 010101010 and ask us to submit it.

i'm not sure if it is the anti virus, or the OS itself that detect the virus.

i can't remember if it will format the floppy disk if it got virus, but the worst part is it will format the floppy disk if it's in DOS format, so a lot of people will lost their assignment.

oh, it will not automatically format it anyway, it will ask if you want to initialize the disk, and since a lot of people don't know what it mean, we all just click yes. at first, most lecturers will give you extra time to do your assignment again, but when a lot of people just bluffing, then you will get 0 if you don't submit your assignment on time after your floppy get formatted.


17 or 18 years ago, Mac didn't run OS X, that is, it wasn't based on UNIX. Things are a bit different now, and viruses are much more difficult to write in the more hostile environment that is a UNIX-based operating system. Still, if someone would like to show that there is a virus for Mac OS X that affects current systems, please provide some tangible evidence, like a source.

Umm quick google search
http://antivirus.about.com/od/macintoshresource/Macintosh_Viruses_and_Mac_Virus_Resources.htm
eg, Leap.A aka Oompa-Loompa virus, Inqtana.A Worm
That's just a QUICK google search..
Fire Boar
Inqtana.A
Quote:
Inqtana is a proof-of-concept worm, coded with a stop date of February 24th and confining its spread to very specific bluetooth addresses. In other words, Inqtana in its current form poses no real threat to Mac users.

Inqtana spreads as an OBEX Push request. If the user accepts the data transfer, the worm exploits the directory traversal vulnerability to install itself, after which it then begins searching for other susceptible devices that will accept OBEX Push transfers.

So... it poses no threat, exploits a hole that was patched a while ago, and requires that the user accepts a bluetooth transfer to install it. Which, let's face it, nobody does. Okay, let's see what else we have.

Leap.A:
Quote:
Affects:
Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) running on PowerPC processors

Discovered:
February 14, 2006

In other words, outdated. Macs run on Intel now. So, let's see what else that website has to offer.

Mac.Simpson:
Quote:
On MacOS 9.0 or above, if the attachment is opened, the worm installs itself in the Startup Items folder, directs the browser to http://www.snpp.com/episodeguide.html (a legitimate site offering archives of various Simpson shows and memorabilia), and then mass mails itself to addresses contained in the Outlook Express and Entourage mail clients.

Again, even more outdated.

Melissa.W:
Quote:
Type: Word97 Macro virus and mass-mailing email worm

Word97? Yeah... so that's not a mac virus, it's a Microsoft Word virus, and one that only works on a very old version of Word.

Any others on that list...? Nope. Sorry, but my point still stands. Find me a genuine virus that does actual harm to current Mac systems, please, just like their Windows counterparts and I might change my mind.
misterXY
Fire Boar wrote:
Inqtana.A
Quote:
Inqtana is a proof-of-concept worm, coded with a stop date of February 24th and confining its spread to very specific bluetooth addresses. In other words, Inqtana in its current form poses no real threat to Mac users.

Inqtana spreads as an OBEX Push request. If the user accepts the data transfer, the worm exploits the directory traversal vulnerability to install itself, after which it then begins searching for other susceptible devices that will accept OBEX Push transfers.

So... it poses no threat, exploits a hole that was patched a while ago, and requires that the user accepts a bluetooth transfer to install it. Which, let's face it, nobody does. Okay, let's see what else we have.

Leap.A:
Quote:
Affects:
Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) running on PowerPC processors

Discovered:
February 14, 2006

In other words, outdated. Macs run on Intel now. So, let's see what else that website has to offer.

Mac.Simpson:
Quote:
On MacOS 9.0 or above, if the attachment is opened, the worm installs itself in the Startup Items folder, directs the browser to http://www.snpp.com/episodeguide.html (a legitimate site offering archives of various Simpson shows and memorabilia), and then mass mails itself to addresses contained in the Outlook Express and Entourage mail clients.

Again, even more outdated.

Melissa.W:
Quote:
Type: Word97 Macro virus and mass-mailing email worm

Word97? Yeah... so that's not a mac virus, it's a Microsoft Word virus, and one that only works on a very old version of Word.

Any others on that list...? Nope. Sorry, but my point still stands. Find me a genuine virus that does actual harm to current Mac systems, please, just like their Windows counterparts and I might change my mind.

HellRTS.D Backdoor
http://www.daniweb.com/news/story276570.html#
OSX/Tored.A
http://www.sophos.com/blogs/gc/g/2009/05/05/lame-email-worm-mac-os/
Don't care if there current, as most Windows, if not all, were kept up to date aswell, then viruses would be very uncommon, l run Windows and run into a virus.. maybe once in four years? Being upto date, on any OS, is always the best, but too debunk the myth macs, DO, get viruses.
william
Just thought I would bring this to the table. But yeah, nobody bothers to write viruses for Macs. Nothing to gain.

Also, about video editing, I still have yet to see why people are still under the belief that Macs are better than Windows based PCs in that respect. With the exception of Final Cut, Windows supports everything OS X does, and then some.
Fire Boar
misterXY wrote:
HellRTS.D Backdoor
http://www.daniweb.com/news/story276570.html#
OSX/Tored.A
http://www.sophos.com/blogs/gc/g/2009/05/05/lame-email-worm-mac-os/
Don't care if there current, as most Windows, if not all, were kept up to date aswell, then viruses would be very uncommon, l run Windows and run into a virus.. maybe once in four years? Being upto date, on any OS, is always the best, but too debunk the myth macs, DO, get viruses.


@HellRTS.D Backdoor: "While Intego has not found any instances of Macs being infected by this in the wild, the fact that this malware is being distributed on a number of forums shows that it will be accessible to a large number of malicious users who may attempt to use it to attack Macs."

So... it's a virus in theory, but in practice no Macs have been infected by it because their users aren't idiotic enough to give it administrative privileges to install itself.

@OSX/Tored.A: "Bugs in the worm's code, however, mean it is unlikely that you will ever encounter it, even if the author had taken the time to correct the many spelling mistakes in the emails it tries to send. So don't lose too much sleep."

Yeah... so it doesn't work. Plus the concept is fundamentally flawed: emails are received as unprivileged users, so simply opening one can't install anything: you need to explicitly install it.


The article makes a good point about software pretending to be legit however. That's a vulnerability that is typically known as "PEBKAC" (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair), and no matter how secure an operating system is, there's no getting around a stupid user. One could write a program for any operating system that did malicious things with root privileges, it's getting the program installed on someone's computer in the first place that is the real challenge for virus writers. Pretending to be legit software is one way. But for Windows, there exist other avenues, meaning even sensible users can get Windows viruses. This is not the case for Mac or Linux.
[FuN]goku
It's possible to get viruses on any OS really, it's just not as common among macs, maybe because no one really cares about them... or I donno. I don't personally use a mac, because I'm anti-apple. It might have to do with admin privileges (I think linux works the same way, it would need sufficient system privileges in order for it to install it itself like Fire Boar said).
weableandbob
I agree with your logic, although Macs are not 'virus free'-there are still some viruses around that go for Macs
lethaltriad
nothing is perfect and right now Pc's are still the majority of peoples poison when it comes to computers. The more popular a system is the more people will try to hack and create viruses for it, I see alot more known viruses for Apple in the future especially since they are coming out with more products and people like.
ahnguye5
Look at the market share/OS platform statistics from anywhere. Mac and Linux platforms together comprise about 15% if not less. As previously stated, you would want to create a virus that affects the masses that is the Windows platforms. This is not to say that there aren't viruses that target the other platforms, but I'd say there's a correlation between number of viruses and market share of a given platform.
Fire Boar
ahnguye5 wrote:
Look at the market share/OS platform statistics from anywhere. Mac and Linux platforms together comprise about 15% if not less. As previously stated, you would want to create a virus that affects the masses that is the Windows platforms. This is not to say that there aren't viruses that target the other platforms, but I'd say there's a correlation between number of viruses and market share of a given platform.


That's the oldest argument in the world, and it's been rebutted plenty of times by the simple fact that almost all important server applications run some UNIX, most commonly Linux. If someone wanted to cause real damage, real mayhem, they would create a virus for Linux if they could. But there are only a very small number of viruses and those that exist do very little if any damage, because UNIX is a naturally hostile environment for viruses, always has been. The details are a bit too technical for an in-depth discussion.

The same applies to Mac OS X, which is based on UNIX.
Iguleder
It's really hard to attack a UNIX system because you'll have to find a way to execute code on it, remotely. The malicious code you make must be executed somehow, otherwise you just planted a file that the user needs to run manually, not very smart Smile
misterXY
Well here's something too worry about, this is the biggest spyware ever created.
Apple CEO Steve Jobs is discussing using the same platform as the iPhone OS in using MacOS/X..
Controlling what you can and can't install? Using there iTunes store as a software store aswell? It's created Apple millions in profits... l've lost the link but it was either with cNet or PcWorld. That's a creepy thought though.... and quite possible.. Shocked
Da Rossa
Asap170 wrote:
Well I don't own a Mac and will never own one. I believe that they are horrible, but that's just my opinion. But the main point of the topic is why Macs are virus free unlike PCs. It goes like this:

Most companies use Windows (PC) because they are just more user friendly I would say. Unlike how Macs are mostly used for video editing, but I don't see why. And Hackers usually care about valuable information that are in businesses. So it's not like that Macs are ipentiable (Sorry on spelling there), but it's the Hackers who don't care to get into a Mac.

And that basically sums up why. There is nothing valuable on Macs (Most of the time)....


I think you're mistaken. You would be right if we were having this conversation in 2006. But things have changed.

Macs have come to a broader range of users, and people started to realise that it was 'not so different' like that. It's not less user friendly when you get used to it, which doesn't get too long, MacFanBoys say. Since there are much more homes with Macs now, they've started being targeted by hackers and virus makers too.

Also, that info about "Macs being only/mainly for video editing" is quite obsolete. There are good applications for Windows too. And Macs can do many things PCs can do.

Nevertheless, I'm still a PC user.
gunkillergun
It is possible to get a virus on a mac (but coding viruses are a pain in the neck). Apple had more experience with computer making, so they obviously know how to defend their computers. Windows is a lot more open sourced to therefor making it a killable OS.
Da Rossa
Open sourced? Please explain.
the-guide
I don't and never known why 'Macs' are virus free and even more secure, I have been using both Mac and Windows PCs, I like Windows PCs since there are many free application available Laughing however, I always keep my important tasks only on Mac just feel it's confidant!
Diablosblizz
Quote:
17 or 18 years ago, Mac didn't run OS X, that is, it wasn't based on UNIX. Things are a bit different now, and viruses are much more difficult to write in the more hostile environment that is a UNIX-based operating system. Still, if someone would like to show that there is a virus for Mac OS X that affects current systems, please provide some tangible evidence, like a source.


Hi! Just thought I'd drop this for you guys:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20006502-245.html?tag=mncol;title
Fire Boar
Quote:
MishInc publisher Brothersoft said it removed the apps from its site while a 7art representative said PremierOpinion, also known as RelevantKnowledge, was not spyware. "All that noise is just trolling from some users who don't want to read terms and conditions before installing any software."


So... it's software that the user is notified of before installing. That said, this does sound a lot like a sneaky type of spyware (because nobody ever reads the terms and conditions).

So I concede the point. Macs can get viruses if you download and install software in the same way as people do on Windows. Just goes to show that proprietary software can be dangerous: you never know what you are getting.
misterXY
Fire Boar wrote:
Quote:
MishInc publisher Brothersoft said it removed the apps from its site while a 7art representative said PremierOpinion, also known as RelevantKnowledge, was not spyware. "All that noise is just trolling from some users who don't want to read terms and conditions before installing any software."


So... it's software that the user is notified of before installing. That said, this does sound a lot like a sneaky type of spyware (because nobody ever reads the terms and conditions).

So I concede the point. Macs can get viruses if you download and install software in the same way as people do on Windows. Just goes to show that proprietary software can be dangerous: you never know what you are getting.

Like Sony's DRM. Long time ago l bought a Sony music CD, required a download. From this point l was like this is odd, but continue too download it, maybe it needed a codec? Anyways, it installs, and l stupidly ignored the EULA or whatever you would like too call it but it remains crap and most ignored "novel" ignored too mankind, required a reboot and Windows is very corrupt. Earlier l used it in my CD player.. DRM ..|.. Evil or Very Mad ..|..
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