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I was suspended for joining a facebook group!





Parkour_Jarrod
PLEASE PEOPLE READ ALL MY POSTS BEFORE REPEATING THE SAME STUPID COMMENTS

Okay heres the deal,

Today, i had TAFE so i wasn't at school but when i got home from TAFE i found out that i was suspended along with 70+ other people for joining the facebook group We want Mr. Forbes OUT Mr Forbes is our principal.

He is a new principal who has been around for just over a year. In the time he has been here, shoe policies have become almost as strict as the military, just wearing a pair of shoes with a speck of white or any other colour (other than black, must be full black leather lace-up shoes) you will be sent home with a detention, the next day if you wear the shoes - 5 day suspension.

Our student body has gone from 1400 to 800-900 due to expulsions for Hair, Shoes, Socks, Piercings and Jewelery (INCLUDING religious pendants) and of course behavior and non-submission of schoolword and wagging but 40-60% is due to the things in red.

We are a completely PUBLIC school, not PRIVATE but yes, public!

IS this ethical or even moral for us to be suspended for freedom of speech - ITS NOT EVEN LEGAL!
tchaunt
I'm not too educated in laws, but I hardly see how a public school can get by with such extreme policies. I really do wonder if the school can suspend you just for saying your want your principal gone. I would certainly start searching around and seeing if I could find any answers as to whether it's legal for the school to do this or not.
saratdear
Let me start off by saying that we too have a vice principal that all of us are pretty pissed off with, including some of the teachers. She hasn't actually started suspending anyone yet, fortunately, and we haven't started any facebook groups for that. Doubtful though, that she would be tech-savvy enough to find that out and take action.

I am sorry to hear what you guys have to go through. Do you have many teachers on your side? Since there have been around 70 suspensions, won't teachers back you? If he starts suspending them as well, there would be an outcry for sure, and he wouldn't want that. So I suggest trying to get the support of your teachers.

Hoping this gets sorted out soon.
Bondings
That seems quite strict to me. Especially since these are new rules and the punishment is quite harsh. It would be better to at least notify the students the first time instead of punishing them.

On the other hand, there are schools that only allow school uniforms to be worn, so that is even more limiting. Although I assume this is only the case in private schools in the USA?

When I was in school, there were also some clothing restrictions. Sport shoes weren't allowed, but I think they only checked if the bottom of the shoe wasn't white to determine whether or not is was a sport shoe. And some other 'decency' measures, but definitely nothing as drastic as you describe.

In college/university there weren't any rules that I know of. I did go to exams with a costume until one of the professors wore shorts and a funny t-shirt.
Afaceinthematrix
If I were you, I would be writing letters to the district, state, and anyone with any power what-so-ever over the school. I would get my parents involved in writing letters. I would start petitions and get hundreds of signatures. That is complete bullshit. I'm not talking about his rules (yeah they are a little silly). I don't mind decency dress codes (except in universities where you're an adult and can wear whatever you want). But to suspend you for something that you did OUTSIDE of school (I assume that you do not have access to Facebook at school) is completely wrong. Hell, give me the URL and I'LL join the Facebook group and I'm several years out of high school.

So I honestly suggest that you start writing letters to the school district and state along with your parents/guardians and classmates because anyone with at least half a brain can see that that is completely out of line. Using Facebook at school (if you even had access) would be against the rules, of course, but not at home.

Besides, most people do not realize that letters can make a huge difference. With one letter, I made a huge change just yesterday in the UCR Mathematics department...
Parkour_Jarrod
@tchaunt - It is quiet definatly illegal there is no law they can hold against it, he tried cyber bulling... but for joining a group? FAIL, the only thing he has is Defamation Of Character for the people who called him a pedofile AFTER they were suspended... Still only a select few are included in that (not myself)

@saratdear - I don't know of any teacher NOW that are supporting students against Brian Forbes. Though i can tell you that last year my engineering teacher tried to stand up to Brian Forbes was using the money that we specially paid for the engineering class EXCLUSIVELY on other aspects of the school such as SOSE and English. It escalated to the point that our engineering teacher physically attacked Brian Forbes (kinda a rumour, Brian Forbes has a habit of keeping big things quiet) and was expelled from teaching making me change out of the subject, and the long term run of people who stayed in it to keep QCS points lost it all when it was shut down this year.

@Bondings - WOW i have your support Twisted Evil - sorry, never had you on one of my posts before.

To topic, we live in Australia so each public school has the choice to wear a uniform or free dress 99% of schools choose a uniform. The uniform policy was actually reasonable, for example, you could have a tiny bit of white on your shoes, your undershirt could be grey, or another light/pastel colour even with a small pattern on it (now it has to be 100% plain white). But now we have quiet literally a uniform Nazi.

EDIT: I was wondering if it is possible to have this on the featured threads for a couple of days to get some support?

@Afaceinthematrix - We actually have had quiet an amount of parents who have done such things, and we have contacted the national Current Affair program - A.C.A.. It has been completely unjust, rather than civilly talking to the students and asking why they hate him and why there might just be an issue and trying to compromise rather than suspending over 70 people by the bases of fueled emotions... this is NOT professional in any sense of the word.

Also it was completely done at home, Facebook is literally impossible to access at school, even with phones or proxies. I thank you all so much for your support, today is D-Day, i go in for the first time, but i know what has happened. I am yet to be officially suspended, but when my interview happens i will be holding my grounds.

LINKS:

Original facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=nf&gid=310893676295

Parents Responce group to suspensions: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=323834173061&ref=nf
medesignz
I dont see what the problem is to be honest... uniform is there for a reason.

It may seem a bit strict, but it seems you may have had a previously liberal principal.

Following rules is what makes head teachers tick... breaking them is what make the pupils...
missdixy
Definitely not sure what the rules are there in Australia, but I know in the US I recently read a story about a girl who sued her school because the principal suspended her for making a facebook group that disssed a teacher.

The article is here: Judge: Dissing a teacher on Facebook is protected speech.

Quote:
In his ruling Friday, Magistrate Judge Barry Garber declined the principal's request to dismiss the suit and ruled that he could be forced to pay damages if Evans, who is now a journalism student at the University of Florida, prevails.

Garber ruled that Evans' rant "falls under the wide umbrella of protected speech."


Just thought it'd be appropriate to share it with you. But yes, I think that your suspension is really unfair, especially because all you did was JOIN the group!
gh0strec0n_legit
I don't think they are able to govern your at home activities that strictly.
Arty
The only thing I can think of to do in this situation is to rally teacher support.
Hogwarts
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
We are a completely PUBLIC school, not PRIVATE but yes, public!


Well, it is TAFE. It's not exactly "not dodgy"
saratdear
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:

@saratdear - I don't know of any teacher NOW that are supporting students against Brian Forbes. Though i can tell you that last year my engineering teacher tried to stand up to Brian Forbes was using the money that we specially paid for the engineering class EXCLUSIVELY on other aspects of the school such as SOSE and English. It escalated to the point that our engineering teacher physically attacked Brian Forbes (kinda a rumour, Brian Forbes has a habit of keeping big things quiet) and was expelled from teaching making me change out of the subject, and the long term run of people who stayed in it to keep QCS points lost it all when it was shut down this year.

Well, having teachers on your side against him is an added plus point, but what I meant is just some teachers who could back you up (against your unfair suspension, I mean).
Parkour_Jarrod
Hogwarts wrote:
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
We are a completely PUBLIC school, not PRIVATE but yes, public!


Well, it is TAFE. It's not exactly "not dodgy"


TAFE is an extra curricular thing that i do
Nick2008
The school has jurisdiction over what you do at home? That is ridiculous.

Personally, I have nothing against dress codes, I actually like them since it prevents people from showing their underwear and walking in half shirts...

But... not everyone likes dress codes and you should have the FULL RIGHT to go against it. Obviously if the principal doesn't even listen to the students, then a little discussion online should not be considered a violation of rules.

Have you actually attempted talking to him directly, face-to-face, before joining a group to bash him?

I can't imagine the principal not giving in if so many students hate his policies, the principal is there for YOU, you are not there for HIM.
Parkour_Jarrod
Nick2008 wrote:
The school has jurisdiction over what you do at home? That is ridiculous.

Personally, I have nothing against dress codes, I actually like them since it prevents people from showing their underwear and walking in half shirts...

But... not everyone likes dress codes and you should have the FULL RIGHT to go against it. Obviously if the principal doesn't even listen to the students, then a little discussion online should not be considered a violation of rules.

Have you actually attempted talking to him directly, face-to-face, before joining a group to bash him?

I can't imagine the principal not giving in if so many students hate his policies, the principal is there for YOU, you are not there for HIM.


Education Queensland claims that it is "Cyber Bulling" and thats why we are getting suspended.... i find the group title more of a partition title, don't you?

and Parents have gone up to the school along with many students who tried to face him and rectify the issue who some were expelled for backchat and some other bullshit
ocalhoun
This is one situation where being a little less 'tech-based' would help.

Log off of facebook, and go organize an old-fashioned student rally, especially of the students who have already been suspended. Go picket the front door, and if told to leave, picket the main entrance.

Make sure the local news knows about it, and why you're there. If you could get most of the suspended students to show up, it would definitely be newsworthy, and being in the public eye will help this school administrator realize that his power is not absolute.
Parkour_Jarrod
ocalhoun wrote:
This is one situation where being a little less 'tech-based' would help.

Log off of facebook, and go organize an old-fashioned student rally, especially of the students who have already been suspended. Go picket the front door, and if told to leave, picket the main entrance.

Make sure the local news knows about it, and why you're there. If you could get most of the suspended students to show up, it would definitely be newsworthy, and being in the public eye will help this school administrator realize that his power is not absolute.


Its already in the news, Education Queensland has fed lies to nearly everyone. I would love to do this, but, my mum wouldn't let me, she says i have to respect my elders and my authority figure even if i disagree with what they say....
ocalhoun
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
she says i have to respect my elders and my authority figure even if i disagree with what they say....

A bad habit to get into if you value your freedom.

Explain to her that you can attempt to change things while still keeping respect.
If my boss at work does things I think are horrible, I can protest that without being disrespectful.
Respect doesn't mean you must keep silent about disagreements, nor does it mean that you can't (politely) correct someone when they are wrong.
Parkour_Jarrod
ocalhoun wrote:
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
she says i have to respect my elders and my authority figure even if i disagree with what they say....

A bad habit to get into if you value your freedom.

Explain to her that you can attempt to change things while still keeping respect.
If my boss at work does things I think are horrible, I can protest that without being disrespectful.
Respect doesn't mean you must keep silent about disagreements, nor does it mean that you can't (politely) correct someone when they are wrong.


I know, but, you need to meet my mum, its kind of sad tbh...
standready
Harsh is an an understatement. Here in the US, there are public schools with very strict dress/appearance codes or even required uniforms. These are generally an attempt to avoid street gang "colors" and it's related violence from enetering the schools. That is a good thing. There are other reasons for these as well.
Being punished by the school for things that happen outside the school (as long as it is not causing voilence on the school grounds) is wrong.
Best of luck to you.
jabce85
I love how school want to be like Germany ci. 1940... actually, no.. I HATE how schools want to be like this.. How in the hell do they always get away with stuff like this?!
milleja46
Dang, i think i had teacher that felt the same way in elementary school, except he screamed at you if you came back from AIG and asked to go to the bathroom
deanhills
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
Okay heres the deal,

Today, i had TAFE so i wasn't at school but when i got home from TAFE i found out that i was suspended along with 70+ other people for joining the facebook group We want Mr. Forbes OUT Mr Forbes is our principal.

He is a new principal who has been around for just over a year. In the time he has been here, shoe policies have become almost as strict as the military, just wearing a pair of shoes with a speck of white or any other colour (other than black, must be full black leather lace-up shoes) you will be sent home with a detention, the next day if you wear the shoes - 5 day suspension.

Our student body has gone from 1400 to 800-900 due to expulsions for Hair, Shoes, Socks, Piercings and Jewelery (INCLUDING religious pendants) and of course behavior and non-submission of schoolword and wagging but 40-60% is due to the things in red.

We are a completely PUBLIC school, not PRIVATE but yes, public!

IS this ethical or even moral for us to be suspended for freedom of speech - ITS NOT EVEN LEGAL!
I'm a bit dumbfounded by this Parkour Jarrod. How can a Principal of a school have so much power? My dad was a Principal of a school and he had to be very careful how he worked with the students, as on the one hand there was the Government and a Government Inspector continuously looking over his shoulder, and on the other hand the Parents Committee/School Board that had even more power than the Inspector. As far as I know schools like to have their student numbers as high as possible, as the Government usually pays subsidies and allowances according to the student numbers, so this certainly does not make sense to me at all.

Do you know whether Mr. Forbes has the support of the Parents/School Board, as possibly that would be the place to lodge a protest, or to work up a petition through parents.
medesignz
He's enforcing rules... Thats how he's getting away with it
milleja46
Yeah but this is a school your talking about not a military, so it should not be like this. I think if you ever go back have a hidden camera so you can record this and prove to others out of school he is doing this, and get him fired for student abuse.
furtasacra
There are some pretty rude comments on the wall for that group, but that's not the point. It is completely outrageous to suspend 70 kids simply for belonging to a group that dislikes the principal of a school.

I think the parents of all those kids need to get together and have a meeting with the superintendent of schools for your area.
Hogwarts
furtasacra wrote:
There are some pretty rude comments on the wall for that group, but that's not the point. It is completely outrageous to suspend 70 kids simply for belonging to a group that dislikes the principal of a school.

Would you not expect to be fired from your job if you joined a group saying you hated your boss?

For example, a quote from that page.

Emily * wrote:
Mr forbes raped me as a child

If anybody said that about me, I'd outright sue them for defamation. If I was their boss, I'd sue them for defamation and fire them. Joining the group was kind of asking to be punished.
Parkour_Jarrod
@ Hogwarts and furtasacra: There were only 5 posts on the wall ORIGINALLY but since the suspensions people have made hundreds of vulgar images and comments that were not there before YES i agree the slanderous ones deserve the suspensions BUT for people who joined it as its original intent a PARTITION i don't believe it is morally correct... Hogwarts, if you were a boss and a group of people made a partition against you, what would you do? its not a hate site, i don't hate him, i disagree with his treatment of the student body... i find it a partition as it was intended to be...

@ medesignz: i an utterly DUMBFOUNDED at how stupid your responses have been... please read the title and the original post again... we were suspended for joining a partition... not uniform a partition page on facebook... The reason why joined the partition is because of his uniform Nazism... you buy a pair of $200 shoes that are all black and leather except for the tiny print that is grey on the tongue of the shoe... you get suspended for having that small amount of grey on your shoe... you have 9mm of regrowth you get suspended for two tone...

On the first day of school, i had a plain GREY shirt which is obviously a neutral colour... i had it because i ride my bike 8km to school up hills, so i sweat... i don't want my school shirt to be sweaty... now, its an undershirt, i wore the school shirt, and school tie (which is optional) my hair neatly parted, shorts pressed, shoes all black, white socks, perfect looking, couldn't even see the shirt... he stared at me for 7 minutes until the slightest movement showed a small amount of grey between the buttons of the school shirt... i got 3 detentions for not having a WHITE shirt...

so please, read over everything again and try and comment on the TRUE issue here, its not about the uniform, its about me losing my PERFECT record over a facebook page...

@ deanhills: parents went to the school to argue it, many have joined a partition, but education Queensland is holding by the BULLSHIT they have been feeding people and the media... they state
Quote:
The page in question can only be accessed and viewed if you have joined the page.


If you have JOINED the page... what is this bullshit... click the link at the top i bet you can see it without joining... There is much more utter crap they are trying to hold, but its too long to recite (it was in a speech, not able to be ctrl+c ctrl+ved)
deanhills
I have to agree with Hogwarts, there were good grounds for suspension in the example that was given. That was definitely unacceptable behaviour.

As far as I know from friends and relatives who live in Australia, Australia has one of the best education systems in the world, and is heavily subsidized by its Government. One of the reasons why the standards are so high is that there are high standards for behaviour as well. Students are expected to dress and behave according to a certain dress code in order to prepare them for their later life. Since it is a Public School, they should be held to an even higher standard as they are receiving a free education. This has to be an offsetting negative of free education. Students see it as a right, rather than a privilege. If there were no free education and students had to battle to get places in school and pay for their education, possibly they would have behaved much differently.
milleja46
No matter what anyone says this is not right. It violates the freedom of speech, and is just plain harsh. I really think this principal needs to be fired and a new one found. If the school board hired him to get rid of students, he has accomplished his goal and it is time to quit.
deanhills
milleja46 wrote:
No matter what anyone says this is not right. It violates the freedom of speech, and is just plain harsh. I really think this principal needs to be fired and a new one found. If the school board hired him to get rid of students, he has accomplished his goal and it is time to quit.
I can't see the school board hiring a Principal to get rid of students. What I can see however (although of course I don't have the facts in front of me) would be a school board anxious to instill a high standard of behaviour amongst its students. Something like FaceBook would tarnish that high standard and in order to set an example to others those associated with this behaviour needed to be expelled for it. One thing that I would be curious to learn is whether those suspended had received a warning in advance. This warning could have been either indirect, i.e. as a set rule of behaviour at school, or the students could have been warned that their behaviour would not be tolerated. I just can't imagine that the Principal would have allowed really good students who otherwise had an excellent record at school to be expelled. That would have been the equivalent of shooting himself in the foot.
Parkour_Jarrod
deanhills wrote:
I have to agree with Hogwarts, there were good grounds for suspension in the example that was given. That was definitely unacceptable behaviour.

As far as I know from friends and relatives who live in Australia, Australia has one of the best education systems in the world, and is heavily subsidized by its Government. One of the reasons why the standards are so high is that there are high standards for behaviour as well. Students are expected to dress and behave according to a certain dress code in order to prepare them for their later life. Since it is a Public School, they should be held to an even higher standard as they are receiving a free education. This has to be an offsetting negative of free education. Students see it as a right, rather than a privilege. If there were no free education and students had to battle to get places in school and pay for their education, possibly they would have behaved much differently.


I agree with Hogwarts upon the fact of the people with slanderous comments

And yes MOST of Australia has a good education, but i'm in Queensland... we have the worst in the country... thing we are learning now (grade 12) people in New South Wales (a different state for people that don't know) Learnt in grade 10... so... maybe if they improve our education so that we learn what a radium is earlier in time (we learnt it last week) and many other things. more people would respect it... Even the teachers say the curriculum is horrible
deanhills
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
And yes MOST of Australia has a good education, but i'm in Queensland... we have the worst in the country... thing we are learning now (grade 12) people in New South Wales (a different state for people that don't know) Learnt in grade 10... so... maybe if they improve our education so that we learn what a radium is earlier in time (we learnt it last week) and many other things. more people would respect it... Even the teachers say the curriculum is horrible
Perhaps that may have been the reason for getting a new Principal. To sort things out. As obviously the school has to be sub-standard then and the Board keen to up the standards. That could very well be the reason for the Principal being so very strict. He may have been instructed to up the standards.
Parkour_Jarrod
deanhills wrote:
Perhaps that may have been the reason for getting a new Principal. To sort things out. As obviously the school has to be sub-standard then and the Board keen to up the standards. That could very well be the reason for the Principal being so very strict. He may have been instructed to up the standards.



Definitely not the case, as it is the BOARD that is substandard.. and since Brian Forbes has been principal of school, education levels have dropped, teacher look more to hold up the school uniform and anti-truant systems rather than teaching their subjects... We spend more stuff on outdoor things for looks rather than NEEDED equipment (such as Bunsen burners that don't threaten to explode...)

Basically when we get a good Principal, the board then send him off to another school, and give us a shit one... I want my original Principal back, when i started 5 years ago, the 6th one is rather dodgy (Mr Forbes)
Jamestf347
Okay heres the deal,

Today, i had TAFE so i wasn't at school but when i got home from TAFE i found out that i was suspended along with 70+ other people for joining the facebook group We want Mr. Forbes OUT Mr Forbes is our principal.

He is a new principal who has been around for just over a year. In the time he has been here, shoe policies have become almost as strict as the military, just wearing a pair of shoes with a speck of white or any other colour (other than black, must be full black leather lace-up shoes) you will be sent home with a detention, the next day if you wear the shoes - 5 day suspension.

Our student body has gone from 1400 to 800-900 due to expulsions for Hair, Shoes, Socks, Piercings and Jewelery (INCLUDING religious pendants) and of course behavior and non-submission of schoolword and wagging but 40-60% is due to the things in red.

We are a completely PUBLIC school, not PRIVATE but yes, public!

IS this ethical or even moral for us to be suspended for freedom of speech - ITS NOT EVEN LEGAL!



That is completely bull, honestly do what other people have said and write letters to your government it's not right doing that in a public school.. that's why it is PUBLIC!
deanhills
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
Basically when we get a good Principal, the board then send him off to another school, and give us a shit one... I want my original Principal back, when i started 5 years ago, the 6th one is rather dodgy (Mr Forbes)
I don't understand. You've just said that the teachers think the school is no good. How can that all be up to the Principal? The Principal does not do all of the teaching, so if only the Principal is bad, then that would mean that the teachers must be good, and if they are good then the standard has to be in good shape with only the Principal being out of control. If the school is as bad as you say it is, and the standard low, then that could not have been created by a single Principal who is brand new and has only been around for one year. If you want to make the Principal responsible for the whole problem, then the previous Principal could not have been that good either. A low standard such as you have described, could not have happened overnight.
truespeed
When you leave school and start work you will have to follow rules and in certain jobs follow a strict dress code,which would in some circumstances include the wearing of certain (colour) footwear. (Welcome to the real world)

Virtually all (public) schools in the UK have a strict dress code,its the norm,it reads like you and your fellow students are used to a more relaxed regime,so someone comes in and tries to raise the standards within the school,which you admit is very low. Instead of going along with it,you want to fight to keep the sub-standard status quo.
Parkour_Jarrod
deanhills wrote:
I don't understand. You've just said that the teachers think the school is no good. How can that all be up to the Principal? The Principal does not do all of the teaching, so if only the Principal is bad, then that would mean that the teachers must be good, and if they are good then the standard has to be in good shape with only the Principal being out of control. If the school is as bad as you say it is, and the standard low, then that could not have been created by a single Principal who is brand new and has only been around for one year. If you want to make the Principal responsible for the whole problem, then the previous Principal could not have been that good either. A low standard such as you have described, could not have happened overnight.


Basically, there are some teachers that completely disagree with whats going on. They want to teach, but are constantly hassled by the principal during meeting to spend more time checking uniform.

The entire STATES education is shot, thats what i was trying to say, not just our school every other school in the state of Queensland.

You have to understand, it is mostly his fault, he is the only principal we have had that has lasted LONGER than 8 months before the board ships them off.

Why does the board ship them off? Because they start doing something good in the school, student, parents and teachers don't mind whats going on... The school's moral starts to increase, they realize "Hey this guy is good, why does (a shit hole (in there eyes)) need them? lets send them to Brisbane State!" Mr. Forbes is the only one who doesn't get shipped out?

He was FORCED out of his last school by students and the PnC
ocalhoun
truespeed wrote:
When you leave school and start work you will have to follow rules and in certain jobs follow a strict dress code,which would in some circumstances include the wearing of certain (colour) footwear. (Welcome to the real world)

Actually, no.


When you leave school, you don't have to work- you can mooch off of relatives, marry someone rich, or just be a homeless drifter. If you do work, you might not need to have a 'job'... You can be self-employed, work from home, or just do odd jobs. Even if you do get a traditional job, many employers don't care what color your shoes are. Heck, I'm in the military, and even I have several choices on shoe (boot) color!

Society loves to shove people into conforming little boxes... But all you have to do to escape this is to be willing to reject the benefits of society.
truespeed
ocalhoun wrote:

Actually, no.


When you leave school, you don't have to work- you can mooch off of relatives, marry someone rich, or just be a homeless drifter. If you do work, you might not need to have a 'job'... You can be self-employed, work from home, or just do odd jobs. Even if you do get a traditional job, many employers don't care what color your shoes are. Heck, I'm in the military, and even I have several choices on shoe (boot) color!

Society loves to shove people into conforming little boxes... But all you have to do to escape this is to be willing to reject the benefits of society.


Thats true,when you leave school your choices are yours,but once you make a choice,like yourself with the military,you are bound by their rules,you can't for instance decide you don't like part of the uniform and wear something different.

So they let you choose your own boot colour,if they didn't would you kick up a fuss,start a facebook campaign slating the officer in charge? Putting up a picture of him and saying things like and i quote...



Quote:
F**k you in the ass Forbes you Boong buggerer!


Quote:
F**K YOU MR. FORBES!


Those were the milder ones. I see very little constructive criticism on there,just abuse (To him) from teenagers who don't like to be told what to do.

Would the army suspend you?

All the stuff Parkour complains about like clothing,jewellery,hair,shoes,is standard in most UK schools,anyone who goes into school not dressed as is required by the rules laid down by the school is sent home.

If this teacher was really so bad why hasn't the education authorities stripped him of his job? Why do they let him suspend so many of the pupils?

This Forbes fella was obviously hired to do a job,if he wasn't doing the job he was instructed to do he would be fired,so if they have a problem with his methods,their opinions/abuse shouldn't be voiced towards him,but those who employ him,the education authority its self.
Parkour_Jarrod
truespeed wrote:
All the stuff Parkour complains about like clothing,jewellery,hair,shoes,is standard in most UK schools,anyone who goes into school not dressed as is required by the rules laid down by the school is sent home.


THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY COMPLAINT! i used those things as an example!

Please if you want to see the ORIGINAL FIVE COMMENTS scroll down the the very bottom! There were FIVE comments that he suspended us for... none had any more vulgar things than the word IDIOT nothing worse, not f**k, or shit, or anything else...
milleja46
Well in the school where this is not the norm, this is not right. When a principal goes in and does this it is not right. I personally think you need to go to the school board and tell them what is happening. Begin suspened for joining a facebook group is 1 none of the schools need to know what you do on things like that, and 2 schools should never be that strict. i think the principal is being a little too strict on a school like yours which is not used to that.
truespeed
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
truespeed wrote:
All the stuff Parkour complains about like clothing,jewellery,hair,shoes,is standard in most UK schools,anyone who goes into school not dressed as is required by the rules laid down by the school is sent home.


THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY COMPLAINT! i used those things as an example!

Please if you want to see the ORIGINAL FIVE COMMENTS scroll down the the very bottom! There were FIVE comments that he suspended us for... none had any more vulgar things than the word IDIOT nothing worse, not f**k, or shit, or anything else...


That is everything to do with your complaint isn't it,and your reason for joining the facebook group in the first place,which led to your suspension,or have i read your opening post wrong?

Why start the facebook campaign at all,why single him out? He's doing a job he is employed to do,if your mother/father was the subject of a facebook hate campaign because of the job they did, how would you feel? How would you feel reading those comments on there if they were about someone close to you? How do you think his family feels? his picture is up for all the world to see.

Your school,and the schools in your state according to you are failing you educationally speaking,so in comes a tough teacher who tried to bring in some discipline,starting with dress code,and you all kick up a fuss,start a facebook campaign,get suspended and start preaching freedom of speech.

I don't know you,or Mr Forbes,maybe he is a jobsworth,but he doesn't deserve all that,if you have a problem,take it up with his superiors,opening up a can of worms on facebook isn't going to get you any sympathy from anyone.
Ghost900
I know that something like this would never be possible in the US. While your story seems to be on one extreme I think the US has gone to the other extreme. You pretty much have to burn a school down to get suspended.

As far as joining a group about your principal is probably not the best idea and is probably not the most effective at getting him out of power. I think that having a traditional protest or something would seem more effective.

I am not sure if you should be suspended for joining the group though.
Asap170
I think this is quite weird. So what if it public this is un called for you have the ammendments behind you I think....The freedom of speech and press. All your doing is speaking out to what you believe. That principal isn't good at all..
deanhills
milleja46 wrote:
Well in the school where this is not the norm, this is not right. When a principal goes in and does this it is not right. I personally think you need to go to the school board and tell them what is happening. Begin suspened for joining a facebook group is 1 none of the schools need to know what you do on things like that, and 2 schools should never be that strict. i think the principal is being a little too strict on a school like yours which is not used to that.
I can't see how the School Board would not know when 75 pupils have been suspended. Common sense says that it is not as "easy as that". There are certain processes that have to be followed when a pupil is suspended and there is quite an enormous accountability for each suspension. Especially in this day and age when there are so many law suits going on. The Principal would have had to complete a standard Government Form and attach his report to it, probably accompanied with a copy of the Facebook page, and I'm almost certain copies of that documentation would have had to be submitted to the School Board as well, and then forwarded to the local Education Department and various other sub-Departments.

By the way, how did the Principal learn about the Facebook? Did other students possibly complain about the content and this could have been brought to the attention of the Principal as a complaint, rather than him checking up? The complaint could also have been submitted to or originated with the School Board and the Principal instructed to suspend the pupils who posted in Facebook, along the above lines, after a careful investigation and with proper documentation in triplicate.
Parkour_Jarrod
deanhills wrote:
By the way, how did the Principal learn about the Facebook? Did other students possibly complain about the content and this could have been brought to the attention of the Principal as a complaint, rather than him checking up? The complaint could also have been submitted to or originated with the School Board and the Principal instructed to suspend the pupils who posted in Facebook, along the above lines, after a careful investigation and with proper documentation in triplicate.


First off, new Queensland laws - Principal doesn't have to go through the Education Department Queensland, he can just suspend/expel someone then send report when see fit/if sees fit...

Secondly... we don't know who it was, people say a girl from my grade who i am friends with (she is that sort of person) some say his daughter, others say a teacher
ocalhoun
truespeed wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:

Actually, no.


When you leave school, you don't have to work- you can mooch off of relatives, marry someone rich, or just be a homeless drifter. If you do work, you might not need to have a 'job'... You can be self-employed, work from home, or just do odd jobs. Even if you do get a traditional job, many employers don't care what color your shoes are. Heck, I'm in the military, and even I have several choices on shoe (boot) color!

Society loves to shove people into conforming little boxes... But all you have to do to escape this is to be willing to reject the benefits of society.


Thats true,when you leave school your choices are yours,but once you make a choice,like yourself with the military,you are bound by their rules,you can't for instance decide you don't like part of the uniform and wear something different.

That's true... But the crucial difference is the CHOICE of career! (If I had been drafted into the military, I could indeed be outraged at being forced into restrictive rules.)
If you choose a uniformed career, there is indeed no justification to being outraged at being expected to follow the rules.
If you were forced into that 'job' (or school), the situation is different. Here you have a branch of the government dictating to free, private citizens in the very worst authoritarian manner, without giving them any option to opt out of the program.

Forced schooling is a huge violation of personal freedom to begin with- adding this nitpick-tyrant element to it exacerbates that violation to an entirely new (and unjustifiable) level.
milleja46
deanhills wrote:
milleja46 wrote:
Well in the school where this is not the norm, this is not right. When a principal goes in and does this it is not right. I personally think you need to go to the school board and tell them what is happening. Begin suspended for joining a facebook group is 1 none of the schools need to know what you do on things like that, and 2 schools should never be that strict. i think the principal is being a little too strict on a school like yours which is not used to that.
I can't see how the School Board would not know when 75 pupils have been suspended.


Common sense says that if your just voicing your opinion and a lot of students were suspended the principal is overusing his power.
truespeed
ocalhoun wrote:


That's true... But the crucial difference is the CHOICE of career! (If I had been drafted into the military, I could indeed be outraged at being forced into restrictive rules.)
If you choose a uniformed career, there is indeed no justification to being outraged at being expected to follow the rules.
If you were forced into that 'job' (or school), the situation is different. Here you have a branch of the government dictating to free, private citizens in the very worst authoritarian manner, without giving them any option to opt out of the program.


Agreed they don't have a choice,and nor do the parents,they have to send them,but weather compulsory education is right or wrong is another debate all together,and i suspect if there was a choice,a large percentage of parents would opt in rather than opt out, as i assume most parents would want their kids educated. (Unless you would want to give that choice to the kids too)


ocalhoun wrote:

Forced schooling is a huge violation of personal freedom to begin with- adding this nitpick-tyrant element to it exacerbates that violation to an entirely new (and unjustifiable) level.


How do you know hes a nit picking tyrant,you only have parkours word for that,and from what i have read,his only beef is the principals enforcement of the dress code rules,hardly grounds for accusations of tyranny.


milleja46 wrote:


Common sense says that if your just voicing your opinion and a lot of students were suspended the principal is overusing his power.


Common sense would say that if he was over using his power,he would himself have been suspended.
Hogwarts
ocalhoun wrote:
Forced schooling is a huge violation of personal freedom to begin with- adding this nitpick-tyrant element to it exacerbates that violation to an entirely new (and unjustifiable) level.

Yay, forced schooling is forced, however that doesn't make it bad (I'd completely wager it means more net freedom, regardless, anyway). I'm yet to see a reason of why this was brought into the topic anyway, besides being an ill-reasoned point created in an unrelated topic merely so that people will object to it in and thus being somewhat akin to trolling Confused
deanhills
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
First off, new Queensland laws - Principal doesn't have to go through the Education Department Queensland, he can just suspend/expel someone then send report when see fit/if sees fit...
I checked up on the Internet and what you have said is quite right Parkour Jaroud. Education Queensland last year made a decision to give Principals greater powers to suspend pupils because of serious incidences of violent behaviour at schools including bullying, attacking teachers, etc. Looks as though discipline is completely out of control at Schools in Queensland and Principals are on a mission (instructed) to correct this. Refer article: School Principals Win Right to Expel Problem Students of 18-Dec-2010.

Quote:
PRINCIPALS will be given new powers to expel problem students following hundreds of violent attacks in Queensland classrooms in the past year.

and
Quote:
In a statement, Assistant Director-General of students services Patrea Walton said Education Queensland had hired bullying expert Dr Ken Rigby to investigate strategies to address the problem.

"The increase in the number of students suspended or recommended for exclusion from Queensland state schools reflects Education Queensland's tough stance on unacceptable behaviour," she said.

"It is not in any school's interests to keep badly behaved students in the classroom disrupting the learning of others."

Queensland Teachers Union president Steve Ryan said increased violence was a reflection of society.

"In terms of general assaults, that's on the increase in the community as well schools are dealing with that and generally speaking that's why the numbers are increasing in terms of schools taking action," he said.

Parkour_Jarrod
The last assault made at our school was when a kid went rampaging though the school with a syringe stabbing people with it, and some guys in the sack... he got a detention... same principal... parents weren't even notified what had happened... it was covered up...
milleja46
And truespeed, hard to suspend a principal, that only the students know how they are really treated. Parents probably think students are just exaggeratting because they miss their old principal, and so do any one they tell.
deanhills
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
The last assault made at our school was when a kid went rampaging though the school with a syringe stabbing people with it, and some guys in the sack... he got a detention... same principal... parents weren't even notified what had happened... it was covered up...
Was the syringe empty? Sounds really horrible. What happened, did the student just loose it completely, were there any special circumstances? Amazing that the parents weren't notified, that is usually the first thing a Principal or any school in the world would have done. Not only because he/she broke the rules, but perhaps that pupil is in need of special help.
ocalhoun
Hogwarts wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
Forced schooling is a huge violation of personal freedom to begin with- adding this nitpick-tyrant element to it exacerbates that violation to an entirely new (and unjustifiable) level.

Yay, forced schooling is forced, however that doesn't make it bad (I'd completely wager it means more net freedom, regardless, anyway).

Really? What freedom does forced schooling give you that free -- optional -- schooling would not?
Quote:
I'm yet to see a reason of why this was brought into the topic anyway

It was brought into the topic to point out the crucial difference between choosing to give up freedom and being forced to give up freedom.

truespeed wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:


That's true... But the crucial difference is the CHOICE of career! (If I had been drafted into the military, I could indeed be outraged at being forced into restrictive rules.)
If you choose a uniformed career, there is indeed no justification to being outraged at being expected to follow the rules.
If you were forced into that 'job' (or school), the situation is different. Here you have a branch of the government dictating to free, private citizens in the very worst authoritarian manner, without giving them any option to opt out of the program.


Agreed they don't have a choice,and nor do the parents,they have to send them,but weather compulsory education is right or wrong is another debate all together,and i suspect if there was a choice,a large percentage of parents would opt in rather than opt out, as i assume most parents would want their kids educated. (Unless you would want to give that choice to the kids too)

Indeed, many would opt-in to free, optional education... The ones it makes a difference to, however, are the ones that would opt-out, if given the choice.
Now, don't get me wrong- forced schooling may be a necessary evil, but still evil.
Quote:

ocalhoun wrote:

Forced schooling is a huge violation of personal freedom to begin with- adding this nitpick-tyrant element to it exacerbates that violation to an entirely new (and unjustifiable) level.


How do you know hes a nit picking tyrant,you only have parkours word for that,and from what i have read,his only beef is the principals enforcement of the dress code rules,hardly grounds for accusations of tyranny.

True, I have but one source, and I wouldn't personally take any action against him without first confirming his misdeeds.
If what was said here is true, however, he does fit the 'petty tyrant' mold quite nicely... The type that really doesn't have much power, but still ruthlessly abuses whatever little power he has.
Quote:


milleja46 wrote:


Common sense says that if your just voicing your opinion and a lot of students were suspended the principal is overusing his power.


Common sense would say that if he was over using his power,he would himself have been suspended.

Perhaps, but only if numerous complaints are filed, and his abuses are made known to his bosses; even then (depending on the bosses), nothing may happen until he becomes a liability to those bosses.

Hence my suggestion to complain publicly, file complaints, and get media attention on it if possible. Doing so can accelerate the suspending process far faster than bureaucracies usually operate.
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