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i'm so pissed....





badai
we have a new programmer this month. i don't know what he bluff my boss in the interview, but he got the job.

after three weeks, we just found out this guy don't know what array is, what's the different between data type (int, float, char, etc), and he said he never do loop before. and have no idea what class (object) is.

so what do I do, teach him programming 101?
[FuN]goku
ROFL!

How the hell did he get the job if he doesn't know what different types of variables there are... That's just fail.

Imo, for any type of software company, applicants should have to submit a piece of work, OR , alternatively, they should have to do a program at the interview , and program whatever the interviewer asks them too. (Should only be a simple program testing their knowledge of different areas)

This would probably prevent something like that from happening. On the other hand, (I'm not sure how many companies actually do this), but maybe have a crash course on programming for new people coming in, so they can adapt to your company's coding traditions.

But other than that, I can't really tell you what to do. If it were me, I'd put in a complaint.... or... I dunno, if I was the boss I'd probably fire him or something.
badai
well the crash course that he supposed to have today is how his program will interface will all the class that we have, and all the format of XML that my SOAP server will communicate with his program. he's supposed to learn all these today, with his UI ready.

it took me 2 semesters (8 months) to learn all that he doesn't know now.

i think we just have to pay him free salary next month cause the company have to give 1 month notice to terminate. i already told my boss of his incompetency in hiring people. let him deal with the bigger boss.

oh, i'm not so pissed right now. somebody else already been assigned to do that guy works.
carlospro7
wow! I can't believe it. Must have been an easy interview. In the interviews I have had, I've always been asked to solve a problem and implement it in C or C++. This lets them know if I can do the stuff they want. I'm curious to know who you work for.

Also, did it really take you guys three weeks to notice? That's a long time to work and not know all those things. Anyway, at least someone else is doing the job.
TurtleShell
I'd teach him programming skills if he promised to teach me how to conduct a stellar interview for a job for which I am profoundly unqualified--that's not a bad skill to have.
ProfessorY91
I'd say that interviews for IT jobs are (mistakenly) fairly general purpose interviews. You never really know what they're going to ask, but if you follow the standards around where I live, there's no difference between an IT job interview and a marketing person's interview. The only thing that counts is how much experience they say they have. Its a fallibility.
TurtleShell
Gosh, I'll keep that in mind!
ocalhoun
ProfessorY91 wrote:
I'd say that interviews for IT jobs are (mistakenly) fairly general purpose interviews. You never really know what they're going to ask, but if you follow the standards around where I live, there's no difference between an IT job interview and a marketing person's interview. The only thing that counts is how much experience they say they have. Its a fallibility.

Probably because the person doing the interview doesn't know the first thing about programming.
Ideally, a person who already does the exact job would at least be present during the interview.
medesignz
Can I come and work with you?
jwellsy
This is a very common situation. I would recommend that you not share these kinds of feelings at work. Bitch all you want to here, but not at work. By speaking up, you can easily mark yourself as unsupportive of management decisions and labeled as unpromotable.

Read up on a subject called emotional intelligence. It will explain a lot and may help you find some peace.
badai
yes, unfortunately for most company you have to suck up to the boss, even the boss himself is just another employee. due to "the chain of command", the bigger boss will always listen to the guy under him, not the lower one down the chain. but ours a bit different.

our company happen to be very open up to the point where we can ask how much somebody else is earning. that is why nobody check on this guy for three weeks because everybody, i mean EVERYBODY including the janitor never really screw up. you feel lazy, just speak up, tell your friend you have a date, and will try to work around it. worst come to worst, we will cover your work.

so if anybody screw up, everybody should know because it will effect all of us. you can play all you want, but when it come to work, you must deliver. we make sure it's really within reasonable time frame and difficulty. you won't get work that you cannot do, or effect your personal life. it's kind of "culture" in our company. so if you find your co worker didn't do his job, we tell him to go home -- literally. of course he can't just go home. we got labour law here.

so, it's not really an issue for me to let everybody know someone is not doing his job. beside, if i didn't tell, everybody else will find out on their own about this. it's pretty obvious. the thing is not there, someone didn't do it, he doesn't know how to do it, someone hired him.

and company have to pay him 2 months free salary. it's not cheap. he's a software engineer. not some data entry guy. if you use big mac index, you can buy 2000++ big mac with his 2 months salary.

there goes our bonus......

jwellsy wrote:
This is a very common situation. I would recommend that you not share these kinds of feelings at work. Bitch all you want to here, but not at work. By speaking up, you can easily mark yourself as unsupportive of management decisions and labeled as unpromotable.

Read up on a subject called emotional intelligence. It will explain a lot and may help you find some peace.
jwellsy
Is your place of work so special and unique that emotional intelligence doesn't apply?
Many people believe that EI is more important than IQ.
carlospro7
jwellsy wrote:
Is your place of work so special and unique that emotional intelligence doesn't apply?
Many people believe that EI is more important than IQ.


His workplace sounds like a pretty cool environment. It's laid back as long as you get your work done. And in a place full of programmers, IQ is probably considered more important than emotional intelligence, but I don't see why you couldn't have both.
jwellsy
carlospro7 wrote:
in a place full of programmers, IQ is probably considered more important than emotional intelligence, but I don't see why you couldn't have both.


You're right, among the worker bee programmers that actually get the work done, IQ is more important. From a management decision making perspective there are other factors to consider.
- If I promote my best worker bee, will the work be affected or even still get done?
- If the worker bee IQ's all meet or exceed expectations and are very similar, what other attributes will support or surplant the companies mission statement and goals?
Flakky
He might have some logic that only he understands. It can be a valuable asset. Not as valuable as someone who knows what an array is though Wink
supernova1987a
how come he got the job then? its mysterious. Maybe he is supposed to do something else or just get trained or maybe he forgot what he had learnt in school.
you should talk to your boss without having any desire to kick the new guy or feeling any kind of negative thoughts towards him. it will probably work. Wink
Afaceinthematrix
Do not teach him anything. Do not help him out at all. Do not pick up his slack. Let him fail and then get fired and hopefully the boss will learn a lesson from this mishaps and make more reasonable hires in the future. That's the best that you can hope for.
guggs
Most interviews for permie IT jobs consist of two parts - one with Personnel / HR who are interested in the applicant as a general employee of the organisation, and one with people who can ask technical questions and know whether they're getting the correct answers ! If it's a contract job, the HR part will be very brief and may not happen at all.

I used to help my bosses with the technical type of interview. I'd pick a subject, start off with a simple question and keep them on the same subject but making them harder until the applicant didn't know the correct answer (or I decided that they knew more than me !). Repeat that for half-a-dozen or so subjects and you get a good idea of someone's general level of knowledge.
slashnburn99
thanks for the tip of emotional intelligence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

we all struggle in work, im sure like many of you didnt spend years in education for the job we are doing now
Flakky
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
Do not teach him anything. Do not help him out at all. Do not pick up his slack. Let him fail and then get fired and hopefully the boss will learn a lesson from this mishaps and make more reasonable hires in the future. That's the best that you can hope for.
That would be the best solution.

Is there news about this guy, OP?
deanhills
badai wrote:
we have a new programmer this month. i don't know what he bluff my boss in the interview, but he got the job.

after three weeks, we just found out this guy don't know what array is, what's the different between data type (int, float, char, etc), and he said he never do loop before. and have no idea what class (object) is.

so what do I do, teach him programming 101?
Provided he is willing to learn and has the right kind of attitude, I would teach him. I always believe that generosity gets repaid, if not in that specific situation, later in life. If this guy has a bad attitude though, and cannot learn, then someone would need to bring the manager up to speed to find ways to deal with the problem. If the "group" keeps quiet while he is not performing, that may cling to the individual members of the group as well along the lines of an accussation later: "But you should have reported this"!
programitv
lol, we had a similar case in my company, the guy had no clue about programming. we sent him to a training, and the trainer after two days of training, asked our management to change the job of the guy or to fire him, as he has never done programming in his life Smile). he ended up as a tester.
taytay
you called him a "new programmer". I think that title is incorrect, he's "new to programming". very different things.

I'll take his job Very Happy gladly! I'm a new programmer myself, but at least I know the basics of loops variables array's and programming all together. I only know VB.net and PHP at the moment. But all coding languages are similar in architecture, just different operands and styles of order Razz If you've learned one, you can easily learn them all. If you have any common computer sense anyway...
imagefree
i would teach him programming rather than complaining.,
jwellsy
If this new programmer is molded right he will probably be a very loyal long term employee.
deanhills
Hopefully he has been trained by now. Would be interesting to hear from Badai what his progress has been like, and what the outcome has been. Whether he is still around.
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