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Berlusconi attacked






Did Berlusconi deserve to be attacked?
Yes
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
No
100%
 100%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 5

jmi256
Interested in hearing what everyone has to say about the attack on Berlusconi. Do you think he derserved it? Is the attacker a criminal or a hero?


Quote:
Italy's PM Silvio Berlusconi is bloodied by attack

Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi of Italy is recovering in hospital after an assault left his face covered in blood following a rally in Milan.


He suffered two broken teeth, a minor nose fracture and cuts to his lip after being struck by a man wielding a souvenir model of the city's cathedral.

Mr Berlusconi, 73, tried to assure supporters afterwards he was OK.

The alleged attacker, who has a history of mental illness, has been charged with throwing the souvenir.

Massimo Tartaglia, 42, had no previous criminal record, police were quoted as saying.

After the attack on Sunday evening the prime minister, looking dazed, was helped to his feet by aides and put in a car. He got out and tried to climb on the car to show he was all right, before being driven away.

It was a typical show of defiance by a political fighter, says the BBC's Duncan Kennedy in Rome.

Mr Berlusconi insisted he was well at the hospital.

'Metal or plaster'

Mr Berlusconi had been greeting supporters in a square in Milan when the assault took place.

There are said to have been scuffles between hecklers and security staff during the rally.

At one point in his speech, Mr Berlusconi responded to his critics in Italy by declaring himself to be "good-looking" and "a decent chap".

The Italian leader was apparently signing autographs when he was struck with the souvenir.

Video of the assault shows Mr Berlusconi suddenly grimacing in pain.

It is not clear from the footage what happened but the object appears to have been thrown at his face.

Police charged Mr Tartaglia with aggravated assault for hurling the miniature replica at Mr Berlusconi.

The replica of the cathedral, famous for its gothic spires, was initially said to be made of metal but later reports suggested it was plaster.

Under pressure

The Italian prime minister was previously assaulted in the street on New Year's Eve 2004, when a tourist visiting Rome struck him with a camera at a rally in the capital's Piazza Navona.

His attacker, a bricklayer from northern Italy, reportedly told police he had attacked Mr Berlusconi because he hated him. The politician suffered a bruise.

Mr Berlusconi has been under pressure in recent months.

His private life has been in the spotlight, amid allegations that he slept with prostitutes, and after his wife filed for divorce.

He has dismissed accusations of ties to the Mafia, and criminal cases against him have resumed after a law giving him immunity was overturned.

A week ago tens of thousands of people attended an anti-Berlusconi rally in Rome.

Source = http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8410946.stm
Nick2008
In my opinion, he did not deserve to be attacked. He isn't the greatest leader, and I don't think he deserves to be a leader, but throwing something at his face isn't going to help the problem. Remember Bush being attacked by shoes? Well that didn't help much politically, but almost the whole world had a good laugh out of it instead. Though the attacker went to prison for it.
deanhills
I agree with Nick. It was an assault and it was criminal, even if he is allegedly a corrupt politician. Personally I feel sympathetic in favour of Berlusconi in this assault. He is an old man, attacking the elderly for me is even a worse offense. By the same token of age it is probably high time that he retires from public life. He seems to have become something of a spectacle to the point of having become undignified.
jmi256
deanhills wrote:
I agree with Nick. It was an assault and it was criminal, even if he is allegedly a corrupt politician. Personally I feel sympathetic in favour of Berlusconi in this assault. He is an old man, attacking the elderly for me is even a worse offense. By the same token of age it is probably high time that he retires from public life. He seems to have become something of a spectacle to the point of having become undignified.


I agree as well, but not just because he's elderly, etc. (even though I do believe that may make it worse). As a democratically elected leader, an attack on him is a slap in the face of the Italians.
deanhills
jmi256 wrote:
I agree as well, but not just because he's elderly, etc. (even though I do believe that may make it worse). As a democratically elected leader, an attack on him is a slap in the face of the Italians.
Knowing the Italians, some of them might have cheered the attack, but you obviously have a good point, it could be a patriotic issue depending how he reacts to it too. Bush preferred not to make it into something of a patriotic issue, however I am sure many American citizens felt insulted at the treatment of their President, even those who did not support him. So Italians may feel of the same. Like a family where it is OK within the family to fight with one another, but when someone from outside attacks a member of the family, the family stick up for their own.
jmi256
deanhills wrote:
jmi256 wrote:
I agree as well, but not just because he's elderly, etc. (even though I do believe that may make it worse). As a democratically elected leader, an attack on him is a slap in the face of the Italians.
Knowing the Italians, some of them might have cheered the attack, but you obviously have a good point, it could be a patriotic issue depending how he reacts to it too. Bush preferred not to make it into something of a patriotic issue, however I am sure many American citizens felt insulted at the treatment of their President, even those who did not support him. So Italians may feel of the same. Like a family where it is OK within the family to fight with one another, but when someone from outside attacks a member of the family, the family stick up for their own.


Sadly, there was a very vocal minority here in the US who cheered at the attack on their president. Whether you agree with someone's policies or not, a certain level of civility should be maintained.
deanhills
jmi256 wrote:
deanhills wrote:
jmi256 wrote:
I agree as well, but not just because he's elderly, etc. (even though I do believe that may make it worse). As a democratically elected leader, an attack on him is a slap in the face of the Italians.
Knowing the Italians, some of them might have cheered the attack, but you obviously have a good point, it could be a patriotic issue depending how he reacts to it too. Bush preferred not to make it into something of a patriotic issue, however I am sure many American citizens felt insulted at the treatment of their President, even those who did not support him. So Italians may feel of the same. Like a family where it is OK within the family to fight with one another, but when someone from outside attacks a member of the family, the family stick up for their own.


Sadly, there was a very vocal minority here in the US who cheered at the attack on their president. Whether you agree with someone's policies or not, a certain level of civility should be maintained.
Right. I remember when it happened to Bush, my spontaneous reaction was a patriotic equivalent one in that this was done to the President of the United States. Almost the equivalent of attacking the flag. I do take my hat off however for the very dignified way that Bush dealt with it. That sort of took the sting out of it and showed real sportsman like behaviour.
Stubru Freak
I found throwing a shoe at Bush was funny, especially since he didn't get hurt (though you don't know in advance). But Berlusconi was seriously hurt, and I don't think anyone deserves that.
jmi256
Stubru Freak wrote:
I found throwing a shoe at Bush was funny, especially since he didn't get hurt (though you don't know in advance). But Berlusconi was seriously hurt, and I don't think anyone deserves that.

So should a crime be solely judged on whether it succeeds or not? If I fire a gun at someone and try to harm him, should I only be prosecuted if he is unable to jump out of the way?

As DH pointed out, President Bush was very dignified in how he reacted, and from what I know of what happened I think Berlusconi also was very dignified in how he reacted.
Stubru Freak
jmi256 wrote:
Stubru Freak wrote:
I found throwing a shoe at Bush was funny, especially since he didn't get hurt (though you don't know in advance). But Berlusconi was seriously hurt, and I don't think anyone deserves that.

So should a crime be solely judged on whether it succeeds or not? If I fire a gun at someone and try to harm him, should I only be prosecuted if he is unable to jump out of the way?

As DH pointed out, President Bush was very dignified in how he reacted, and from what I know of what happened I think Berlusconi also was very dignified in how he reacted.


Of course not, but in most countries murder is a more serious crime than attempted murder.
And also, a shoe thrown from a large distance is less dangerous than a hard object thrown from nearby. One year of prison is far too much for a minor crime like that, he wouldn't have been punished nearly as much if it was someone else instead of the president.
jmi256
Stubru Freak wrote:

Of course not, but in most countries murder is a more serious crime than attempted murder.

Yes, but it doesn’t make it a ‘non-crime.’

Stubru Freak wrote:
And also, a shoe thrown from a large distance is less dangerous than a hard object thrown from nearby. One year of prison is far too much for a minor crime like that, he wouldn't have been punished nearly as much if it was someone else instead of the president.

I don’t know what distance Berlusconi’s attacker threw his object from, but from the video I saw of President Bush’s attack, the distance didn’t seem “large”, but just a few rows back. Regardless of whether the distance was different by a few feet, it’s still a crime. Now, personally I agree with you that one year seems like a harsh sentence when we have people here in the US doing far less time for more serious crimes, but that is what the legal system in the particular jurisdictions called for. I wouldn’t want other countries’ legal standards applied to US citizens, as much as I wouldn’t want the US’s legal standards applied to other sovereign democracies. The citizens have every right to decry the unfairness of such a standard and work to change it if they see fit, which applies only in democracies, however, so that’s why I use that term.
Stubru Freak
jmi256 wrote:
Stubru Freak wrote:

Of course not, but in most countries murder is a more serious crime than attempted murder.

Yes, but it doesn’t make it a ‘non-crime.’

Stubru Freak wrote:
And also, a shoe thrown from a large distance is less dangerous than a hard object thrown from nearby. One year of prison is far too much for a minor crime like that, he wouldn't have been punished nearly as much if it was someone else instead of the president.

I don’t know what distance Berlusconi’s attacker threw his object from, but from the video I saw of President Bush’s attack, the distance didn’t seem “large”, but just a few rows back. Regardless of whether the distance was different by a few feet, it’s still a crime. Now, personally I agree with you that one year seems like a harsh sentence when we have people here in the US doing far less time for more serious crimes, but that is what the legal system in the particular jurisdictions called for. I wouldn’t want other countries’ legal standards applied to US citizens, as much as I wouldn’t want the US’s legal standards applied to other sovereign democracies. The citizens have every right to decry the unfairness of such a standard and work to change it if they see fit, which applies only in democracies, however, so that’s why I use that term.


I didn't say it was a non-crime. All I'm really saying is that I thought it was funny. Crimes can be funny, especially when nobody is harmed when they're committed.
I really don't think Bush would be hurt as bad as Berlusconi if the shoe hit its target.
jmi256
Stubru Freak wrote:
jmi256 wrote:
Stubru Freak wrote:

Of course not, but in most countries murder is a more serious crime than attempted murder.

Yes, but it doesn’t make it a ‘non-crime.’

Stubru Freak wrote:
And also, a shoe thrown from a large distance is less dangerous than a hard object thrown from nearby. One year of prison is far too much for a minor crime like that, he wouldn't have been punished nearly as much if it was someone else instead of the president.

I don’t know what distance Berlusconi’s attacker threw his object from, but from the video I saw of President Bush’s attack, the distance didn’t seem “large”, but just a few rows back. Regardless of whether the distance was different by a few feet, it’s still a crime. Now, personally I agree with you that one year seems like a harsh sentence when we have people here in the US doing far less time for more serious crimes, but that is what the legal system in the particular jurisdictions called for. I wouldn’t want other countries’ legal standards applied to US citizens, as much as I wouldn’t want the US’s legal standards applied to other sovereign democracies. The citizens have every right to decry the unfairness of such a standard and work to change it if they see fit, which applies only in democracies, however, so that’s why I use that term.


I didn't say it was a non-crime. All I'm really saying is that I thought it was funny. Crimes can be funny, especially when nobody is harmed when they're committed.
I really don't think Bush would be hurt as bad as Berlusconi if the shoe hit its target.


Yeah, I agree though. It was funny.
ocalhoun
Perhaps Bush could start training classes for unpopular heads of states?
'How to dodge thrown objects 101'

^.^
Stubru Freak
By the way, there are conspiracy theories everywhere on the internet that it was a fake attack, staged to improve his popularity.
ocalhoun
Stubru Freak wrote:
By the way, there are conspiracy theories everywhere on the internet that it was a fake attack, staged to improve his popularity.

Not entirely unbelievable... 'PR people' do have a lot of influence over politicians.
deanhills
Stubru Freak wrote:
By the way, there are conspiracy theories everywhere on the internet that it was a fake attack, staged to improve his popularity.
Difficult to believe as where it happened people felt that was a victory against the "evil enemy" (Bush). The way Bush reacted was very good, but had the marks of spontaneity, including the journalist being incarcerated for it, as I don't think the Journalist quite expected that to happen.
Stubru Freak
deanhills wrote:
Stubru Freak wrote:
By the way, there are conspiracy theories everywhere on the internet that it was a fake attack, staged to improve his popularity.
Difficult to believe as where it happened people felt that was a victory against the "evil enemy" (Bush). The way Bush reacted was very good, but had the marks of spontaneity, including the journalist being incarcerated for it, as I don't think the Journalist quite expected that to happen.


I meant the attack on Berlusconi, not the one on Bush.
deanhills
Stubru Freak wrote:
I meant the attack on Berlusconi, not the one on Bush.
More difficult to believe as it could have been fatal. Maybe if it had also been a shoe, or something soft, it could have been more credible.
Stubru Freak
deanhills wrote:
Stubru Freak wrote:
I meant the attack on Berlusconi, not the one on Bush.
More difficult to believe as it could have been fatal. Maybe if it had also been a shoe, or something soft, it could have been more credible.


They actually say nothing has been thrown. When you look at the video, you see one of the bodyguards has an object in his hand, and they say it contains something that looks like blood.
I don't know if I believe it, and actually I don't really care anyway. :p
deanhills
Stubru Freak wrote:
I don't know if I believe it, and actually I don't really care anyway. :p
Right, my sentiment too. I've never really taken Italian politicians seriously anyway, by the same token the French Presidents as well. I feel sorry this happened to the old chap, but I was more affected when it happened to Bush. And proud for the US in how Bush handled the situation. One public relations situation that he at least got right that time round. Smile
gandalfthegrey
1. The attacker had mental illness.

2. Silvio Berlusconi is a criminal. He initially made a law to make him exempt from prostitution. The law was changed back when he lost his majority and he is now facing criminal charges.

The rich and powerful make the laws, and make their "illegal", immoral and unethical actions legal.

3. The man basically bought the leadership of Forza Italia and the Presidency, using his media empire to give himself favorable coverage.

Berlusconi deserves to be striped of all power and put in jail.
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