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Difficult situation at home





Da Rossa
This question is particularly to the ladies, but the men can contribute too.
This is not about me, but what if you accidentaly read an e-mail sent to your husband from "somebody else"? This is actually about a female friend of mine, which is older, has children and is definitely sure that her husband is cheating on her. Not to mention his strange behaviour when she gets home and catches him at instant messaging programs.

What would you do? Talk about any possibilities. May be even from installing monitoring programs at their computer, such as keyloggers or IM loggers that send e-mails, to a decent talk. Then, assume that the "third person" is a man.
apple
Da Rossa wrote:
This question is particularly to the ladies, but the men can contribute too.
This is not about me, but what if you accidentaly read an e-mail sent to your husband from "somebody else"? This is actually about a female friend of mine, which is older, has children and is definitely sure that her husband is cheating on her. Not to mention his strange behaviour when she gets home and catches him at instant messaging programs.

What would you do? Talk about any possibilities. May be even from installing monitoring programs at their computer, such as keyloggers or IM loggers that send e-mails, to a decent talk. Then, assume that the "third person" is a man.


How old are the parties involved? How long have they been married? How long has the wife noticed the 'strange' behavior? Is there any reason he would cheat on her?

To begin with I am a woman (see pic) I do believe a lot of women paly a role in being cheated upon, please note that I did not say all!

Could it be that they have been together for a long time and 'lot the magic' or maybe got 'too used to each other'?

I can and will be willing to elaborate more if some of my questions have been addressed.
kutekitten
Da Rossa wrote:
This question is particularly to the ladies, but the men can contribute too.
This is not about me, but what if you accidentaly read an e-mail sent to your husband from "somebody else"? This is actually about a female friend of mine, which is older, has children and is definitely sure that her husband is cheating on her. Not to mention his strange behaviour when she gets home and catches him at instant messaging programs.

What would you do? Talk about any possibilities. May be even from installing monitoring programs at their computer, such as keyloggers or IM loggers that send e-mails, to a decent talk. Then, assume that the "third person" is a man.


I wouldn't go as far as spying (installing monitoring programs) on her husband, that involves her sneaking around as much as she suspects him of doing, and that's more likely to cause more problems than it solves.

The simplest way to solve it is to get it out in the open, if she has a reason to believe he's cheating on her, then there's certainly some information that he isn't telling her, even if it turns out he isn't cheating, there's still an issue that needs to be solved.

Although getting it out in the open and simply asking him what he's hiding is the simplest means of solving it, it's also the scariest. I do recommend it though... the longer it gets put off, the worse the problem gets, and eventually somebody has to speak up, and their trust in each other becomes even more nonexistent.

Of course this is totally my opinion and how I look at a problem like that (I'm a woman). I can't say how either person would react to it...
Da Rossa
Quote:
How old are the parties involved? How long have they been married? How long has the wife noticed the 'strange' behavior? Is there any reason he would cheat on her?

To begin with I am a woman (see pic) I do believe a lot of women paly a role in being cheated upon, please note that I did not say all!

Could it be that they have been together for a long time and 'lot the magic' or maybe got 'too used to each other'?

I can and will be willing to elaborate more if some of my questions have been addressed.


    * Both are around 45 years old;
    * She's been noticing the strange behaviour since 2006;
    * They're married since end of 1997;
    * Almost sure they haven't had enough time to oget used to each other since from the beginning their jobs make the 'meeting' difficult;
    * The reason she things he's been cheating is that she spotted that compromising e-mail from one of his buddies from other town, who confessed being gay. The conclusion she was able to draw from the reading was that her husband was pushing his male friend to have another sex relation OR talking about guilt, such as "come on, this is no big deal, I liked, you liked, blabla". The answer was: "Man, I'm walking into the gay world with my own legs".


Quote:
I wouldn't go as far as spying (installing monitoring programs) on her husband, that involves her sneaking around as much as she suspects him of doing, and that's more likely to cause more problems than it solves.


She's sure of the thing, and I agree. I saw the e-mail.

Quote:
The simplest way to solve it is to get it out in the open, if she has a reason to believe he's cheating on her, then there's certainly some information that he isn't telling her, even if it turns out he isn't cheating, there's still an issue that needs to be solved.


I agree, and I talked to her about it. She said she's tried talking honestly, but he always evades from the conversation.

Quote:
Although getting it out in the open and simply asking him what he's hiding is the simplest means of solving it, it's also the scariest. I do recommend it though... the longer it gets put off, the worse the problem gets, and eventually somebody has to speak up, and their trust in each other becomes even more nonexistent.

Of course this is totally my opinion and how I look at a problem like that (I'm a woman). I can't say how either person would react to it...


Noted. Remember: there are children involved.
deanhills
Does she still love him? And does she still want to stay married to him? Is he still devoted to her? Those should rather be the main issues instead of whether he is cheating on her or not.

If she still loves him and would like to make a good go of the marriage, maybe she needs to have a good talk with him. First of all let him know that she loves him, and she is completely committed to their marriage, but that his behaviour has been strange to her lately, and she needs to know openly and honestly whether he would like to continue with the marriage. Maybe he does not want to continue with the marriage, in which case she would then know where she stands, but if their marriage is still a good one, then doing it this way there is a greater chance for them to renew their commitment to one another.

I think it is completely unacceptable for her to read his e-mails. If he should know that she has, this may create a real problem in the trust department. So she needs to stop doing that as possibly she is interpreting things wrong anyway. Instead she should rather confront him about what is real, in their commitment to the marriage, rather than focus on what he is doing "wrong", which if she should do that, would probably push him away from her instead of help fixing things, if they are fixable.
Da Rossa
Quote:

Does she still love him? And does she still want to stay married to him? Is he still devoted to her? Those should rather be the main issues instead of whether he is cheating on her or not.


Yes I'm almost sure she still loves him; if not, she's willing to return to the "status quo ante" because she lieks her family and to have one. If he's devoted to her I'm not sure. But don't you think cheating means a lot of things?

Quote:
If she still loves him and would like to make a good go of the marriage, maybe she needs to have a good talk with him. First of all let him know that she loves him, and she is completely committed to their marriage, but that his behaviour has been strange to her lately, and she needs to know openly and honestly whether he would like to continue with the marriage.


As I said to the friends above, she already tried talking, but he runs away from the discussion. Says he doesn't have time to it. I think he prefers dying rather than disclosing the dirty details.

Quote:
Maybe he does not want to continue with the marriage, in which case she would then know where she stands, but if their marriage is still a good one, then doing it this way there is a greater chance for them to renew their commitment to one another.


To renew, they need some strong and unexpected motivation. I don't know where it can come from.

Quote:
I think it is completely unacceptable for her to read his e-mails


I thought that too. But she didn't come forward at reading; she eventually read a minimized unloggedoff message he got. It was his 'buddy'. From that day after, he started getting cell calls in which he answered "hey man whats up?" - like he was talking to an actual good friend, then closed the door (so, in her opinion, they could talk in detail).
So this is more about privacy or more about the relationship as a whole? Can't the first be temporarily sacrificed for the good of the latter?

Quote:
If he should know that she has, this may create a real problem in the trust department


She already told him. The excuses where "funny", as she said. No way this is a misunderstanding.

Quote:
Instead she should rather confront him about what is real, in their commitment to the marriage, rather than focus on what he is doing "wrong", which if she should do that, would probably push him away from her instead of help fixing things, if they are fixable.


This enforces what I just said: in this case, the means can be justified by the ends. In other words, do you really think a privacy invasion is more unpleasant than the ongoing situation?
Greatking
confrontation. as unpleasant as it may be sometimes its the best tool to clear the air. and i hate stuffing things away it clogs the air and the relationship. she should bring to bear what she has seen be very plain and explain ur fears and uncertainties. this helps alot. its called communication. instead of sneaking around sniffing and trying to catch him at it why not simply ask and find out what s up. it could be something else. u never know. in a relaitionship i believe the best tool is communication from both parties. if the man is not communicating, u the woman should take a bold first step and conquer the enemy called unhappiness in marriage. i say amen to that!
Da Rossa
Noted too. But, again: what if she can't engage into a conversation since he always runs away when it's about to start?
deanhills
Da Rossa wrote:
This enforces what I just said: in this case, the means can be justified by the ends. In other words, do you really think a privacy invasion is more unpleasant than the ongoing situation?
Looks as though they can't communicate with one another. I am sure he must know she is suspicious of him, and perhaps he can't deal with suspicions and the same suspicions are making her unhappy too. I can't imagine an environment like that could be good for the children however. If the parents are unhappy how could the kids be happy?

Maybe she has two choices here. If she wants to stay with him she needs to work on her own friendships outside the marriage (not necessarily of the romantic variety), but if she can develop hobbies and friendship circles that occupy her mind fully, this will make her focus away from her suspicions about her husband. Obviously she can't change him, and she tried to talk to him, and he does not want to talk. If she is going to force the issue, maybe she will just become more unhappy. For me there are only two alternatives to be "happy" in a situation like that. She should make herself happy by creating meaningful relationships and hobbies outside her marriage, or she should separate from him. Maybe when she does the former and he does not catch up with her happiness, it may well lead to separation, but to try and patch things up when one is suspicious and unhappy, and her husband does not want to talk, may make it much worse, not better. She may need to ignore his strange behaviour if she wants to live with it.
Da Rossa
Quote:
Looks as though they can't communicate with one another. I am sure he must know she is suspicious of him, and perhaps he can't deal with suspicions and the same suspicions are making her unhappy too. I can't imagine an environment like that could be good for the children however. If the parents are unhappy how could the kids be happy?


He already knows she is suspicious, actually, he already knows she knows. The environment, I forgot to say, does not look bad: things are quite normal, but when this episodes come up, she starts to feel unhappy. But as long as the relation is "ok" she's ok too, at least she tries.

Quote:
Maybe she has two choices here. If she wants to stay with him she needs to work on her own friendships outside the marriage (not necessarily of the romantic variety), but if she can develop hobbies and friendship circles that occupy her mind fully, this will make her focus away from her suspicions about her husband. Obviously she can't change him, and she tried to talk to him, and he does not want to talk. If she is going to force the issue, maybe she will just become more unhappy.


I agree she has to fill her free time with activities that fill her mind and let her live her friendships. But she works from early morning to afternoon already. Being suspicious of her husband is not all she does, thanks to God. But this is a very relevant hassle in her marriage and life.

About the second option: this could be good in the very long run, could. The children are too young. Not only because of them, but she`ll break. Also, both she and I believe that this can be fixed, although we recognize it is very difficult. We don't know how strong his urges are. And people say that, when a hetero becomes gay, he`ll hardly be reversed.
deanhills
Da Rossa wrote:
About the second option: this could be good in the very long run, could. The children are too young. Not only because of them, but she`ll break. Also, both she and I believe that this can be fixed, although we recognize it is very difficult. We don't know how strong his urges are. And people say that, when a hetero becomes gay, he`ll hardly be reversed.
I did not realize that he was gay. Probably explains why he can't talk about it, that may be a good sign for keeping the marriage going, but not such a good one for his relationship with his wife and family. If he can come out with it, it would logically mean that he accepts he is gay and that may mean that he would want to leave the family. While he is giving no direct answers he is choosing not to "come out" with it, keep it secret, and being married may be a good way of hiding it. So it probably may be good to pretend that there is nothing wrong and to support him in that if she wants to keep the marriage together? Confronting him may make him feel more conflicted than he already must be.
Da Rossa
Quote:
I did not realize that he was gay. Probably explains why he can't talk about it, that may be a good sign for keeping the marriage going, but not such a good one for his relationship with his wife and family. If he can come out with it, it would logically mean that he accepts he is gay and that may mean that he would want to leave the family. While he is giving no direct answers he is choosing not to "come out" with it, keep it secret, and being married may be a good way of hiding it. So it probably may be good to pretend that there is nothing wrong and to support him in that if she wants to keep the marriage together? Confronting him may make him feel more conflicted than he already must be.


Well, given the circumstances of him being Lt Colonel in the army, besided having been raised as a Catholic (and he indeed is, even going to the Church), AND for the fact that she knows that he's affraid of the out-of-this-world consequences of his acts, I don't see him coming out. Would be such a bigger problem to him. You see, sexual urges are powerful, specially when they got the man to "switch teams".
As of now, she needs to be sure whether he wants to keep their relation or not.
apple
Da Rossa wrote:
Quote:
How old are the parties involved? How long have they been married? How long has the wife noticed the 'strange' behavior? Is there any reason he would cheat on her?

To begin with I am a woman (see pic) I do believe a lot of women paly a role in being cheated upon, please note that I did not say all!

Could it be that they have been together for a long time and 'lot the magic' or maybe got 'too used to each other'?

I can and will be willing to elaborate more if some of my questions have been addressed.


    * Both are around 45 years old;
    * She's been noticing the strange behaviour since 2006;
    * They're married since end of 1997;
    * Almost sure they haven't had enough time to oget used to each other since from the beginning their jobs make the 'meeting' difficult;
    * The reason she things he's been cheating is that she spotted that compromising e-mail from one of his buddies from other town, who confessed being gay. The conclusion she was able to draw from the reading was that her husband was pushing his male friend to have another sex relation OR talking about guilt, such as "come on, this is no big deal, I liked, you liked, blabla". The answer was: "Man, I'm walking into the gay world with my own legs".




why does she not just ask him? having been married for such a long time , there is no more room/time for games. If she is concerned just ask him..."hun are you tired of this relationship'? tell her to think first and make sure she has her responses down before she asks so when he asks her why she's asking, she can be able to say something like...'well i been feeling distant lately and wondered if something was up'.
just a suggestion.

lets say for a moment that he told her he thinks he's bi or gay or something, can she live with that? will she tell the world and bring him to eternal shame? do they have the kind of marriage that is just for show? can he confess all and anything to her (if he was the type of man who could open up)? is she the type of woman who will tell all her friends that 'he likes men now' or tell the kids their father is a homosexual?

seems I always have more questions than solutions, the way my mind works is to ask all questions and explore every possible action/response. that way we can sorta have a close idea as to how the actual conversation/situation will be.
deanhills
@apple. I think we have to do with something that is much more complicated and subtle. Perhaps it is much better to pretend as though nothing has happened and focus only on the positive parts that keep the marriage together. As far as I can understand, she wants the marriage to stay together for the sake of the kids no matter what. By probing when he is reluctant to "come out" she may just drive him away and make it difficult for both to survive in the marriage. If she respects his wish to not talk about this, that may count in her favour. He may even relax and come out himself when the moment is right for him.
Da Rossa
Quote:
why does she not just ask him? having been married for such a long time , there is no more room/time for games.


I agree, but, like I said, they don't have plenty of time to live together because of their jobs.

Quote:
lets say for a moment that he told her he thinks he's bi or gay or something, can she live with that? will she tell the world and bring him to eternal shame? do they have the kind of marriage that is just for show? can he confess all and anything to her (if he was the type of man who could open up)? is she the type of woman who will tell all her friends that 'he likes men now' or tell the kids their father is a homosexual?


No I think she can't live with that. I mean, she can live, but unhappily. I Don't think she'll tell the world but some people will definitely know. The marriage is not only for show, at least looking from her perspective. Also she's never been suspicious until 2006. I mean, before that, she thought there was another one in play, but it was a girl. And she found out that nothing happened, or at least think that.

He is not the man, at least so far, who can tell everything. Talking is a problem, now imagine talking about such things. I think she'll try to prevent their kids from knowing that.

Quote:

seems I always have more questions than solutions, the way my mind works is to ask all questions and explore every possible action/response. that way we can sorta have a close idea as to how the actual conversation/situation will be.


Don't worry, ask anything you want, and I hope you're having fun! Smile

Quote:
@apple. I think we have to do with something that is much more complicated and subtle. Perhaps it is much better to pretend as though nothing has happened and focus only on the positive parts that keep the marriage together.


Not sure how long things can be kept that way until "the explosion".

Quote:
As far as I can understand, she wants the marriage to stay together for the sake of the kids no matter what. By probing when he is reluctant to "come out" she may just drive him away and make it difficult for both to survive in the marriage. If she respects his wish to not talk about this, that may count in her favour. He may even relax and come out himself when the moment is right for him.


Not only that unfortunately. "No matter what" is too radical in here. She thinks about herself and her own happiness too. And, in cascade, this is about my family's happiness as well.
For her to "respect his wish not to talk about this", there would had to be a minimun, initial talk about the subject for the things to be "put clearly", like "I don't wanna talk about it, ok?" Not even this "approach" has been made.

Edit: The most important part: she talked to my mum today to give updates. She reiterates that she wants me to plant a MSN logger on their pc. I asked if there were new facts, she said no, that she was only "anxious". Now I have kind of a dilemma: if I plant, this can have severe consequences. If I do not, she'll keep feeling uncomfortable and unhappy. What do you think?
tingkagol
I vote not to plant. Both of you know something is up, but let the husband confess. Just maintain the status quo that she is always open for a conversation with him regarding the matter, despite him reluctant about it. It's devastating to find something out without the consent of the husband (in addition to that e-mail), and if the wife does find something, what is she going to do? Just point a finger? Or is she strong enough to leave the marriage once she gathers more evidence?
deanhills
tingkagol wrote:
I vote not to plant. Both of you know something is up, but let the husband confess. Just maintain the status quo that she is always open for a conversation with him regarding the matter, despite him reluctant about it. It's devastating to find something out without the consent of the husband (in addition to that e-mail), and if the wife does find something, what is she going to do? Just point a finger? Or is she strong enough to leave the marriage once she gathers more evidence?

I completely agree with this. Furthermore, by her discussing him with other people like Da Rossa and his mother, she is confusing herself as well as creating unrealistic expectations. She has sent her husband a very clear message of what her thinking is. He apparently has done the same, i.e. he does not want to talk about it. So unless she is prepared to let him go and carry on on her own, perhaps she needs to buckle down, stop talking about it, and accept that he will talk to her when he is ready to talk to her. If she is serious about continuing her marriage to him, she probably also has to focus on making it worth his while to continue in the marriage. If she continues to remind him of his "inadequacies", and keeps nagging him, he may come to completely resent her and this may mean the end of the marriage.
Da Rossa
Updates: she's decided. She went yesterday to my grandparents place (her parents) to communicate it: she's gonna break up. He already moved to his mothers house.

My ant said she became pittyful. "After all, we were a family and he loved this house and home.". She said that this is because she wasn`t "Sure". actually it was her naive part wanting something. I told her that there is no chance he didn't cheat on her with a man. How to explain the condoms and the multiple hiv tests?

Other weird detail is that one day, back in '02, he travelled to Rio and met someone there. A man, actually, which looks very decent. He quicky arranged for that new buddy to be his sons` godfather (which was about to be born).
deanhills
Da Rossa wrote:
Updates: she's decided. She went yesterday to my grandparents place (her parents) to communicate it: she's gonna break up. He already moved to his mothers house.
That was very brave of her to do. Is this a separation, or do you think this is the end of their marriage, is he still going to support the family? Pretty decent of him to be the one moving out of the house.
zacky
Da Rossa wrote:
This question is particularly to the ladies, but the men can contribute too.
This is not about me, but what if you accidentaly read an e-mail sent to your husband from "somebody else"? This is actually about a female friend of mine, which is older, has children and is definitely sure that her husband is cheating on her. Not to mention his strange behaviour when she gets home and catches him at instant messaging programs.

What would you do? Talk about any possibilities. May be even from installing monitoring programs at their computer, such as keyloggers or IM loggers that send e-mails, to a decent talk. Then, assume that the "third person" is a man.


Well this is kind of serious problem one. I believe that if your not too desperate to know the real story of

what might happens behind those "chats" (instant messaging program) well do not desperately try to

install such softwares just to catch up your husband or rather her husband.

At first if you do that, then it almost means that your not truly believe to your husband. Meaning you

don't trust him anymore because instead of asking him first and talk about it in a decent and formal

way, your headed to the conclusion that he got a girl there on the chat. And i think this will ended to

out of the marriage. Sometimes simple things and problems became bigger because of our

malicious mind sets. We don't have yet the over all evidence, we came to the point of judging the

person.

I guess the best way to do for this kind of situation is ask frankly your partner with the utmost

diligence manner of saying what your doubts are..
airh3ad
This kind of setuation is so difficult both the party well, best way is to ask or talk . then tell someting about the setuations.
tingkagol
Pretty brave of her to break the relationship off. Most women would've stuck around. I think it's best for the kid in the long run too, since I believe it's healthier for a child to live with a single happy parent than with both parents who are obviously unhappy.
apple
well good for her. I would have asked my husband right out tho as I am very open minded. Might have even stayed around after he came out once what 'we' had was still there.
natilovesmike
Well, the best solution would be to talk and figure out what is wrong in the relationship. Spying will not solve anything at all. It will only mak the wife more paranoid. If the husband is seeing somebody else...why is he doing that? I am not saying its the wife's fault...its probably both, but they need to talk. Face to face and confess everything...and also be open when they hear things they don't like. I recently went through a silimar situation with my husband...and talking, no matter how hard or hurtful it can be in the beginning is the path to healing. If they love each other then they need to be open with each other. If they don't love each other anymore...then that needs to be out in the open too, so each person can go its own way.
Da Rossa
People, thanks for all your positions.
But it's over now. They split. Maybe this was a good thing.
What is not a good thing is that it appears that he cares for one of the kids (the older, 10 years old) much more than he does for the other (7).
At Christmas, he insisted on talking to the first on the phone but only said "give him my best" to the latter.
This is very sad.
apple
Da Rossa wrote:
People, thanks for all your positions.
But it's over now. They split. Maybe this was a good thing.
What is not a good thing is that it appears that he cares for one of the kids (the older, 10 years old) much more than he does for the other (7).
At Christmas, he insisted on talking to the first on the phone but only said "give him my best" to the latter.
This is very sad.


maybe he thinks the impact would be greater on the 1st seeing that he is older etc?
Da Rossa
That's a possibility.
I just came back from trip and don't know the latest news.
Thanks for the idea.
macky
i think she should talk to his husband before accusing with these.. we;ll never know if there is really

the truth beyond those email...
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