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NASA finds water on the moon





deanhills
Looks as though NASA has found evidence of large quantities of water on the moon through an experiment where they launched rockets to penetrate the surface of the moon:

Quote:
A "significant amount" of frozen water has been found on the moon, the US space agency said Friday heralding a giant leap forward in space exploration and boosting hopes of a permanent lunar base.

Preliminary data from a dramatic experiment on the moon "indicates the mission successfully uncovered water in a permanently shadowed lunar crater," NASA said in a statement.

"The discovery opens a new chapter in our understanding of the moon," it added, as ecstatic scientists celebrated the landmark discovery.

"Yes indeed we found water and we did not find only a little bit but a significant amount," said Anthony Colaprete, project scientist and principal investigator for the 79-million-dollar LCROSS mission.

The data was found after NASA sent two spacecraft crashing into the lunar surface last month in a dramatic experiment to probe Earth's nearest neighbor for water.

One rocket slammed into the Cabeus crater, near the lunar southern pole, at around 5,600 miles (9,000 kilometers) per hour.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091113/ts_afp/sciencespaceusmoon
ocalhoun
^.^ They're playing catch-up... It must have been embarrassing for someone else to have found it first.
Moonspider
deanhills wrote:
Looks as though NASA has found evidence of large quantities of water on the moon through an experiment where they launched rockets to penetrate the surface of the moon:


Hopefully this will provide momentum (and continued funding) for NASA's moon program. I have serious doubts that this administration and successive administrations will view a return to the moon and establishing a permanent presence there as a priority.

Respectfully,
M
deanhills
Moonspider wrote:
Hopefully this will provide momentum (and continued funding) for NASA's moon program. I have serious doubts that this administration and successive administrations will view a return to the moon and establishing a permanent presence there as a priority.

Respectfully,
M
That is a pity. Either they should invest heavily and with much greater focus on world environmental issues, such as polution of scarce resources such as water, and curbing the world population growth, or at least maintain a programme of exploration in outer space. For that reason I'm glad the administrations in India and other big countries such as Russia are putting greater emphasis on their space exploration programmes, maybe it may have an effect on the US administration, if only from a competitive point of view.
ocalhoun
Moonspider wrote:

I have serious doubts that this administration and successive administrations will view a return to the moon and establishing a permanent presence there as a priority.

Perhaps rightly so, given the state of the budget... Why not put it off until the two wars we're involved in are over? Once that happens, there shouldn't be quite as much of a budget crunch.

Or, go for another 'competition', getting a bargain rate for it... say, 10 billion dollars to the first private individual or company to land a robot on the moon. The prize money would be much less than it would cost to finance the whole operation, of course, but as the first private spaceflight competition showed, people will still try it. (Perhaps the robot in question could be a standardized one that any 'contestant' would have to use... One based on the Mars rovers, but designed to find water, then serve as a marker for where that water is.)

I'd like to see NASA evolve away from being an organization that carries out government space quests, and see it change more towards an organization that encourages and helps organize private-sector utilization and exploration of space.
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
Perhaps rightly so, given the state of the budget... Why not put it off until the two wars we're involved in are over? Once that happens, there shouldn't be quite as much of a budget crunch.
I agree that is necessary. But then that presumes a kind of financial responsibility that I just don't see present in the Government. I have not seen any sign, perhaps ever, of a Government "buckling in" and trying to get the debt down. It may use the financial situation as an excuse not to pursue something, but I'm almost certain if popular demand asks for more exploration, or if other large countries such as Russia should make large headlines, that they will change tack to "keep the votes up".

Wikipedia has some interesting information on the Space Race, moon exploration and how the moon produces its own water:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_exploration

What I found particularly interesting is a list of artificial objects that have been left on the moon by all the moon missions of mankind. We seem to have a knack for polluting wherever we go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_on_the_Moon
MM357
As you people said, and as everyone interested would guess, This "sudden" discovery of NASA coming just after the criticism urged about American Space Project and the billions of bucks spent by NASA to explore the outer space, This story rising at the moment seems to be a political game from the people at NASA to have some more votes in their favor.

My point is: If only the USA realizes that it is most useful for the whole world, especially for the USA itself, to have more and more countries and entities that research and invest in advanced science subjects such as space and sub-atomic physics. I mean that we still see the policy of the USA to get the best scientists in these fields to study and research on its land and under its policy, why not try harder to make the life of people in other countries better so that these countries advance and help in discovering the secrets of our universe ???

this was just an opinion.

EDIT: Oh I forgot .. about the spam post just above my post .. those guys have a VERY BAD hosting plans,they don't even deserve a look Smile
supernova1987a
Its a big discovery. But We are probably not using Moon's water here on Earth. Laughing
We are probably going to use Moon's water during Moon stays or if we setup a base on the Moon.
Cliffer
oh,really?that's new and good news.
atul2242
MM357 wrote:
.....
My point is: If only the USA realizes that it is most useful ................ to study and research on its land and under its policy, why not try harder to make the life of people in other countries better so that these countries advance and help in discovering the secrets of our universe ???


Well all it has to do is to stop meddling and exploiting other countries.
deanhills
MM357 wrote:
My point is: If only the USA realizes that it is most useful for the whole world, especially for the USA itself, to have more and more countries and entities that research and invest in advanced science subjects such as space and sub-atomic physics. I mean that we still see the policy of the USA to get the best scientists in these fields to study and research on its land and under its policy, why not try harder to make the life of people in other countries better so that these countries advance and help in discovering the secrets of our universe ???
I thought the United States was doing more than its share in helping other countries of the world. Not only direct monetary assistance, but there must be thousands of scientists emigrating to the United States from other countries, or working together on joint research projects with the United States. What specifically did you have in mind it should be doing more than what it is already doing?

Specifically with regard to International Cooperation in Space, the US seems to have been working with a large number of other countries:
Quote:
In 1975, the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project provided both a last and a first: The last flight of the Apollo Program that took human beings to the Moon and Skylab, the first American space station, and the first large-scale international space mission. Today, as the arena of outer space has widened and economic troubles have compressed the budgets of space agencies across the globe, working together makes more and more sense. The greatest example of this approach is the International Space Station, which is supported by the United States, Russia, the European Space Agency, Canada, Japan, and Brazil. This resource list covers issues of general application in international cooperation in space.

The library has a webpage of links to other space agencies. The library also has special lists that cover issues specific to cooperating with Russia, Japan, India, South Korea, and the European Space Agency. Additionally, the library has language training multimedia materials. If you are a NASA HQ employee, please consider subscribing to our news alert on international cooperation to get the latest news.


http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/hqlibrary/ppm/ppm34.htm
This link also contains a bibliography of Internet links with regard to international cooperation in space exploration.
soljarag
Thats good news.... It will be helpfull to save weight and therefore fuel when they can use the water on the moon
ocalhoun
soljarag wrote:
Thats good news.... It will be helpfull to save weight and therefore fuel when they can use the water on the moon

Also important is that they can take that water, and use solar power to convert it into good rocket propellant... Which would make the moon a good staging point for interplanetary missions. (Because of the lower gravity.)
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
soljarag wrote:
Thats good news.... It will be helpfull to save weight and therefore fuel when they can use the water on the moon

Also important is that they can take that water, and use solar power to convert it into good rocket propellant... Which would make the moon a good staging point for interplanetary missions. (Because of the lower gravity.)
That sounds pretty awesome, my imagination have not stretched that far yet. Is this an idea that has been mentioned by NASA already, has it anything to do with Bush's plans for an International Space Station? I read some background notes on Major General Charles Bolden last night, the newly appointed Administrator of NASA. He comes with impeccable credentials including having been a marine, so must have lots of guts. Do you think though this is more of a retirement position for him, or do you think he is going to make great strides, as no doubt "great strides" at NASA always come with fighting lots of politics and politicians as well as working hard on PR in order to get funding.
philipw
Woo~~~ That's a good news for everyone.
nam_siddharth
I think it was Chandrayaan-1 of India, first to discover presence of water on moon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrayaan-1

Quote:
Among its many achievements was the discovery of the widespread presence of water molecules in lunar soil.
ocalhoun
nam_siddharth wrote:
I think it was Chandrayaan-1 of India, first to discover presence of water on moon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrayaan-1

Quote:
Among its many achievements was the discovery of the widespread presence of water molecules in lunar soil.

They were... Hence my comment about the US rather pitifully playing catch-up and quickly 'discovering' water on the moon itself.

One would hope that the USA would be past the space-race stage, and could leave developing nations to compete amongst themselves, but apparently not. I wouldn't be surprised to see the US and several 'developing' nations racing to get the first man on Mars in the midrange (20-40yrs). Hopefully when the upstarts are racing to the moon, the US will be able to sit it out content that they did so a long time ago... hopefully.
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
nam_siddharth wrote:
I think it was Chandrayaan-1 of India, first to discover presence of water on moon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrayaan-1

Quote:
Among its many achievements was the discovery of the widespread presence of water molecules in lunar soil.

They were... Hence my comment about the US rather pitifully playing catch-up and quickly 'discovering' water on the moon itself.

One would hope that the USA would be past the space-race stage, and could leave developing nations to compete amongst themselves, but apparently not. I wouldn't be surprised to see the US and several 'developing' nations racing to get the first man on Mars in the midrange (20-40yrs). Hopefully when the upstarts are racing to the moon, the US will be able to sit it out content that they did so a long time ago... hopefully.
I thought that the US had partnered up with the Indian mission which found the water? The US were collaborating in the project by providing instrumentation?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-5052942,prtpage-1.cms
nam_siddharth
deanhills wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
nam_siddharth wrote:
I think it was Chandrayaan-1 of India, first to discover presence of water on moon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrayaan-1

Quote:
Among its many achievements was the discovery of the widespread presence of water molecules in lunar soil.

They were... Hence my comment about the US rather pitifully playing catch-up and quickly 'discovering' water on the moon itself.

One would hope that the USA would be past the space-race stage, and could leave developing nations to compete amongst themselves, but apparently not. I wouldn't be surprised to see the US and several 'developing' nations racing to get the first man on Mars in the midrange (20-40yrs). Hopefully when the upstarts are racing to the moon, the US will be able to sit it out content that they did so a long time ago... hopefully.
I thought that the US had partnered up with the Indian mission which found the water? The US were collaborating in the project by providing instrumentation?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-5052942,prtpage-1.cms


Whatsoever it was ISRO to find water on moon, not NASA.
deanhills
nam_siddharth wrote:
deanhills wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
nam_siddharth wrote:
I think it was Chandrayaan-1 of India, first to discover presence of water on moon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrayaan-1

Quote:
Among its many achievements was the discovery of the widespread presence of water molecules in lunar soil.

They were... Hence my comment about the US rather pitifully playing catch-up and quickly 'discovering' water on the moon itself.

One would hope that the USA would be past the space-race stage, and could leave developing nations to compete amongst themselves, but apparently not. I wouldn't be surprised to see the US and several 'developing' nations racing to get the first man on Mars in the midrange (20-40yrs). Hopefully when the upstarts are racing to the moon, the US will be able to sit it out content that they did so a long time ago... hopefully.
I thought that the US had partnered up with the Indian mission which found the water? The US were collaborating in the project by providing instrumentation?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-5052942,prtpage-1.cms


Whatsoever it was ISRO to find water on moon, not NASA.


Right, but ISRO did acknowledge the participation of NASA and the instrumentation that NASA contributed to the project. I'm almost certain there is far less competition between ISRO and NASA than what patriotic citizens and politicians would like there to be. At the time when water was discovered on the moon, both NASA and ISRO were well on the way of signing a treaty. Regrettably there was a complete change in leadership of the two organizations during the course of last year, so they probably will need to revitalize treaty negotiations.
Moonspider
For clarification:

NASA wrote:
NASA's Moon Mineralogy Mapper, or M3, instrument reported the observations. M3 was carried into space on Oct. 22, 2008, aboard the Indian Space Research Organization's Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft. Data from the Visual and Infrared Mapping Spectrometer, or VIMS, on NASA's Cassini spacecraft, and the High-Resolution Infrared Imaging Spectrometer on NASA's Epoxi spacecraft contributed to confirmation of the finding. The spacecraft imaging spectrometers made it possible to map lunar water more effectively than ever before.

Source:NASA Instruments Reveal Water Molecules on Lunar Surface

SPACE.com wrote:
...NASA's LCROSS probe discovered beds of water ice at the lunar south pole when it impacted the moon last month, mission scientists announced today. The findings confirm suspicions announced previously, and in a big way.

"Indeed, yes, we found water. And we didn't find just a little bit, we found a significant amount," Anthony Colaprete, LCROSS project scientist and principal investigator from NASA's Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif...

Scientists have suspected that permanently shadowed craters at the south pole of the moon could be cold enough to keep water frozen at the surface based on detections of hydrogen by previous moon missions. Water has already been detected on the moon by a NASA-built instrument on board India's now defunct Chandrayaan-1 probe and other spacecraft, though it was in very small amounts and bound to the dirt and dust of the lunar surface...

...Scientists also are looking to see if there is any link between the water observed by LCROSS and that discovered by Chandrayaan-1.

"Their observation is entirely unique and complementary to what we did," Colaprete said. Scientists still need to work out whether the water observed by Chandrayaan-1 might be slowly migrating to the poles, or if it is unrelated.

Bottom line, the discovery completely changes scientists' view of the moon, Wargo said.

The discovery gives "a much bigger, potentially complicated picture for water on the moon" than what was thought even just a few months ago, he said. "This is not your father's moon; this is not a dead planetary body."

Source: "Significant Amount" of Water Found on Moon

Respectfully,
M
yagnyavalkya
There is a lot of news in India about crimes committed by persons in power what about the same in other countries are these people tried justly?
ocalhoun
yagnyavalkya wrote:
There is a lot of news in India about crimes committed by persons in power what about the same in other countries are these people tried justly?

As far as I know, there's no place on Earth where powerful/rich/famous people are given the same treatment in the justice system as the powerless/poor/anonymous people.

If you know of any such place, tell me... I might move there.
yagnyavalkya
Firstly I am sorry i posted an unrelated post in this thread
secondly I think Science and scientist should co operate with everybody in the world and not fight with each other that would only be detrimental to the development and progress of science. It is a very clear and well known fact that NASA and ISRO co operate and definelty ISRO looks forward for a a lot of help from the advance and heavy funded or NASA
THe whole mission ot the moon by India did havehelp of NASA
deanhills
yagnyavalkya wrote:
Firstly I am sorry i posted an unrelated post in this thread
secondly I think Science and scientist should co operate with everybody in the world and not fight with each other that would only be detrimental to the development and progress of science. It is a very clear and well known fact that NASA and ISRO co operate and definelty ISRO looks forward for a a lot of help from the advance and heavy funded or NASA
THe whole mission ot the moon by India did havehelp of NASA
Awesome yagnyavalkya. This does make great sense. For me there is an entirely different cooperation between scientists than between politicians. Politicians tend to muck up and colour issues. In this case however, I do think politics have been delaying the progress between NASA and ISRO, due to change of Governments in both countries. Hopefully once those Governments have settled down, and the two new Directors of NASA and ISRO have bonded a little more with one another, they can make more progress with the Treaty of Cooperation that they have been working on during their previous administrations, and still needs to be signed.
azoundria
Quote:
Perhaps rightly so, given the state of the budget... Why not put it off until the two wars we're involved in are over? Once that happens, there shouldn't be quite as much of a budget crunch.

Or, go for another 'competition', getting a bargain rate for it... say, 10 billion dollars to the first private individual or company to land a robot on the moon. The prize money would be much less than it would cost to finance the whole operation, of course, but as the first private spaceflight competition showed, people will still try it. (Perhaps the robot in question could be a standardized one that any 'contestant' would have to use... One based on the Mars rovers, but designed to find water, then serve as a marker for where that water is.)

I'd like to see NASA evolve away from being an organization that carries out government space quests, and see it change more towards an organization that encourages and helps organize private-sector utilization and exploration of space.


Google already has the X Prize, 10 million to the first private individual or company that lands a robot on the moon. I think 10 billion is more than it would cost to do so, unless you're dealing with a government of course.
yagnyavalkya
It is prbly time to find now water in other plants like Mars and Jupiter
anyway we have to colonize these planets soon!
ocalhoun
yagnyavalkya wrote:

anyway we have to colonize these planets soon!

Why?
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
yagnyavalkya wrote:

anyway we have to colonize these planets soon!

Why?
And especially how?
yagnyavalkya
deanhills wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
yagnyavalkya wrote:

anyway we have to colonize these planets soon!

Why?
And especially how?
man has always found the ways and means to do things very very impossible and improbable that is what we see in History
I guess he will find a way anyway
premium
isnt this really old news now though. i remember watching the news last year. they had found ice, or dry ice.

i do however find it interesting because i have always wanted to find life on another planet. My view on mars is that the elements are there for life, but the planet is still too cold for life to evolve.

Maybe in a million years when mars heats up and creates a warmer atmosphere, the elements of live will evolve.

maybe sooner, i dunno lol
ocalhoun
premium wrote:

Maybe in a million years when mars heats up and creates a warmer atmosphere, the elements of live will evolve.


Is Mars going to do this on its own, or are we going to heat it up?
premium
ocalhoun wrote:
premium wrote:

Maybe in a million years when mars heats up and creates a warmer atmosphere, the elements of live will evolve.


Is Mars going to do this on its own, or are we going to heat it up?


i thought as the sun comes more to the end of its life, its going to get hotter and burn faster and faster. so wouldnt this heat up mars
ocalhoun
premium wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
premium wrote:

Maybe in a million years when mars heats up and creates a warmer atmosphere, the elements of live will evolve.


Is Mars going to do this on its own, or are we going to heat it up?


i thought as the sun comes more to the end of its life, its going to get hotter and burn faster and faster. so wouldnt this heat up mars


But not in a million years... a few billion years. And when it finally does, it'll probably make Mars far too hot, though if I remember correctly, Mars will probably be the innermost planet that isn't completely destroyed by it.
Bikerman
Jury is still out on that one.
http://www.universetoday.com/2008/01/31/will-earth-survive-when-the-sun-becomes-a-red-giant/
yagnyavalkya
There is no surprise that water in Mars one can expect it to be in other planets too
yagnyavalkya
Deleted
mengshi200
isnt this really old news now though. i remember watching the news last year. they had found ice, or dry ice.
----------------------
haha.but this good news said more information,a large quantities of water on the moon.mankind is finding way to get rid of energy crsis including colonizing in other planets.

premium wrote:
isnt this really old news now though. i remember watching the news last year. they had found ice, or dry ice.

i do however find it interesting because i have always wanted to find life on another planet. My view on mars is that the elements are there for life, but the planet is still too cold for life to evolve.

Maybe in a million years when mars heats up and creates a warmer atmosphere, the elements of live will evolve.

maybe sooner, i dunno lol
Bluedoll
deanhills wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
yagnyavalkya wrote:

anyway we have to colonize these planets soon!

Why?
And especially how?
Mars is the best choice in this solar system to colonize. It is similar to earth in that it has polar regions, gravity and once might have contained water. But it is a dead planet with a solid core that is problematic for atmospheric retention. The most amazing of all planets and most beautiful is earth (why didn’t they call it planet water?)

If man looks outside the solar system he is headed off into deep space and the wait time is phenononamoiloamailo.

“We are off to colonize, we will text you in about, oh say, 10,000 years when we reach our destination.” – signed sarcastic susie.
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