I'm sorry but the Philippine Presidential elections are fast approaching and I have to vent my frustration about a candidate.
Apparently this guy is running (again), and his chances of winning are good.
A bit of a background for this guy:
Former president of the Philippines. He's a convicted plunderer. He supports illegal gambling- claiming it helps the poor for the meantime (at one point he received $8 million from illegal gambling profits).
A revolution removed him from power in 2001, and he was put on trial and found guilty of plunder not long after.
Despite his track record, he's been strengthening his PR and increasingly garnering support from the poor (who comprise the majority of voters) ever since he was granted pardon by the current administration whilst serving his life sentence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Estrada
Seriously.
You guys have it way better.
Last edited by tingkagol on Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total Which candidate do you favour over Estrada? Must say he does look a little haggard in the photo, but possibly that was for effect? Usually these politicians are dressed in flashy suits, with Clark Gable type spit and polish demeanour all the time?
| deanhills wrote: |
| Which candidate do you favour over Estrada? |
I am confused myself. There at least 5 presidential hopefuls at the moment. I just don't want this guy to be part of them / a real contender (he's currently #3 in a social weather survey).
That picture of him was a mugshot when he started to serve his sentence way back in 2001.
My real frustration lies in the Filipino people. The fact is majority of Filipinos live in poverty and have no proper education. We think celebrities can run the country (see Pacquiao and Estrada of course), we condone vote-buying, we are easily coerced by the media (we only have 2 big networks currently in control. Both are politically biased), we are easily manipulated (see EDSA 3)... etc. Greedy politicians, like Estrada, take advantage of this.
Makes me admire the critical/cynical American for once. Really. I ENVY YOU GUYS.
Last edited by tingkagol on Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total | tingkagol wrote: |
| deanhills wrote: | | Which candidate do you favour over Estrada? |
I am confused myself. There at least 5 presidential hopefuls at the moment. I just don't want this guy to be part of them / a real contender (he's currently #3 in a social weather survey).
That picture of him was a mugshot when he started to serve his sentence way back in 2001.
My real frustration lies in the Filipino people. The fact is majority of Filipinos live in poverty and have no proper education. We think celebrities can run the country (see Pacquiao and Estrada of course), we condone vote-buying, we are easily coerced by the media (we only have 2 big networks currently in control. Both are politically biased), we are easily manipulated (see EDSA 3)... etc.
Makes me admire the critical/cynical American for once. Really. I ENVY YOU GUYS. |
Maybe you need to take up politics so that you can make a difference? Motivate others as well, as I get a feeling for what you are saying. Feels like a hopeless and helpless situation.I hate politics.
Yeah, it does make me feel like it's hopeless. There never was a time when me or my friends felt optimistic about our leaders. All I want now is just to get this election over with and not have Estrada back in power.
| Quote: |
Makes me admire the critical/cynical American for once. Really. I ENVY YOU GUYS. |
| tingkagol wrote: |
| The fact is majority of Filipinos live in poverty and have no proper education. |
The majority of Americans live in relative wealth, and have forgotten 90% of the education they received.
| Quote: |
| We think celebrities can run the country (see Pacquiao and Estrada of course), |
We elected a celebrity on a number of occasions, even to the office of President. Even when we don't, we often elect those with the qualities of a celebrity.
(And 80% of the time, the taller candidate wins.)
(edited to add in a third circumstance)
We condemn it, except in three circumstances:
1: Done in secret.
2: Done with official funds, and in an indirect fashion, by rewarding votes with juicy government programs.
3: Done by donating to an organization that will 'encourage participation in the democratic process'... (Translation: encourage voting among groups of people likely to vote for your side.)
| Quote: |
| we are easily coerced by the media (we only have 2 big networks currently in control. Both are politically biased), |
We have more networks, but they are all still biased, and many people are extremely easy to sway by what they hear on them.
| Quote: |
| we are easily manipulated (see EDSA 3)... etc. |
All humans are.
| Quote: |
| Greedy politicians, like Estrada, take advantage of this. |
They do here, too.
Last edited by ocalhoun on Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:23 am; edited 1 time in total@Ocalhoun. You are obviously right. All of that is happening all over the world, but when you have less jobs available, smaller salaries, and most dreams are of getting out of the island to work in the United States, Canada or other countries outside for greater opportunities, then a crook like Estrada is a real likelihood. Possibly for your more intelligent Philipino who cares and would like things to change, this has to be difficult to live with.
This situation has prevailed in the Philippines (as far as I have learned from my expat Philippine friends) for decades and decades. Philipinos are very protective of their jobs, some even work three jobs to make a living, so when it gets to vote for anyone, they may have less energy available to care, or they are easily swayed so that they can keep their jobs. If there is a choice of being practical or idealistic, then practical would come first.
| ocalhoun wrote: |
| Quote: | | we are easily coerced by the media (we only have 2 big networks currently in control. Both are politically biased), |
We have more networks, but they are all still biased, and many people are extremely easy to sway by what they hear on them. |
The more networks, the more differing opinions. Try 2 TV stations (whose owners are actively supporting the opposition) united against the current administration- it's not a pretty sight.
| Quote: |
We elected a celebrity on a number of occasions, even to the office of President. Even when we don't, we often elect those with the qualities of a celebrity.
(And 80% of the time, the taller candidate wins.) |
But Pacquiao? He lost in the last election but it's still interesting how someone like him got 75,908 votes (Custodio won with 139,061 votes). This was before he beat Dela Hoya, and with his current popularity and clout reaching the stratosphere, I wouldn't be surprised if more people will vote for him. | tingkagol wrote: |
| ocalhoun wrote: | | Quote: | | we are easily coerced by the media (we only have 2 big networks currently in control. Both are politically biased), |
We have more networks, but they are all still biased, and many people are extremely easy to sway by what they hear on them. |
The more networks, the more differing opinions. Try 2 TV stations (whose owners are actively supporting the opposition) united against the current administration- it's not a pretty sight.
| Quote: | We elected a celebrity on a number of occasions, even to the office of President. Even when we don't, we often elect those with the qualities of a celebrity.
(And 80% of the time, the taller candidate wins.) |
But Pacquiao? He lost in the last election but it's still interesting how someone like him got 75,908 votes (Custodio won with 139,061 votes). This was before he beat Dela Hoya, and with his current popularity and clout reaching the stratosphere, I wouldn't be surprised if more people will vote for him. |
Well, yes, the USA is not as bad, but we suffer from many of the same problems; it's just a matter of degree. | ocalhoun wrote: |
| Well, yes, the USA is not as bad, but we suffer from many of the same problems; it's just a matter of degree. |
An ENORMOUS degree though. I can't see someone like Estrada becoming President of the United States. The media would have chewed him into pieces, and he would never have been nominated by his Party to start off with.Enormous indeed. If you look at Philippine history, you'd wonder how some of these people won various seats in the government.
Take this guy for example:
Gregorio "Gringo" Honasan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorio_Honasan
His history is nothing but a series of coup attempts targeting government installations resulting in the deaths of many civilians. At one point he planned to bomb the presidential palace. That was in the 1980s.
Fast-forward a few years later, he was granted amnesty by former president Fidel Ramos, ran for the senate and won. He got 11.6 million votes-- this is a guy with little to no history of anything but a vast history in violence. So why did people vote for him? I do not know. All that's left to blame is the campaign machine- if you think it's effective in the US and other countries, it's extremely effective in the Philippines. | tingkagol wrote: |
Enormous indeed. If you look at Philippine history, you'd wonder how some of these people won various seats in the government.
Take this guy for example:
Gregorio "Gringo" Honasan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorio_Honasan
His history is nothing but a series of coup attempts targeting government installations resulting in the deaths of many civilians. At one point he planned to bomb the presidential palace. That was in the 1980s.
Fast-forward a few years later, he was granted amnesty by former president Fidel Ramos, ran for the senate and won. He got 11.6 million votes-- this is a guy with little to no history of anything but a vast history in violence. So why did people vote for him? I do not know. All that's left to blame is the campaign machine- if you think it's effective in the US and other countries, it's extremely effective in the Philippines. |
In your opinion, how does this get to happen, or do the people from the Philippines just have a total lack of interest in politics and politicians?I think we are more interested in the "showbiz" side of politics than the politics itself. Whoever offers themselves in a bigger plate definitely has a good chance of winning- so anyone with great media exposure, campaign clout, etc, can very well be a "candidate". This is where Estrada capitalized.
As for Gringo Honasan- I don't really know how or why, but I guess it all boils down to ignorance / lack of education plus the constant bombardment of political advertisements/propaganda- the more a politician's face is shown to the people, the more they'll vote for him.
lol. I know I sound jaded, not to mention too enthusiastic to share the ugliness of Philippine politics.
| tingkagol wrote: |
I think we are more interested in the "showbiz" side of politics than the politics itself. Whoever offers themselves in a bigger plate definitely has a good chance of winning- so anyone with great media exposure, campaign clout, etc, can very well be a "candidate". This is where Estrada capitalized.
As for Gringo Honasan- I don't really know how or why, but I guess it all boils down to ignorance / lack of education plus the constant bombardment of political advertisements/propaganda- the more a politician's face is shown to the people, the more they'll vote for him.
lol. I know I sound jaded, not to mention too enthusiastic to share the ugliness of Philippine politics. |
I'm wondering whether the fact that so many of the better educated people from the Phillipines are working overseas has to do with lack of interest in making their country a better place or making a better living so that they can make their country a better place. I always thought it was the latter, but perhaps there are good reasons for those who do leave, even though they are supporting members of their families, eventually not to return.Well, I honestly feel bad politics is just an alibi. People leave because they want the "American dream". I don't know if you have noticed, but we are heavily influenced by the west. This is mostly due to the history we have with americans. We are consumers of American products, from arts to music to lifestyle. English is taught in schools more enthusiastically than Philippine history (I am writing in English now).
But yeah, it is all about the money. I actually thought about leaving at one point, but ultimately figured that I had absolutely no idea what I was chasing after- or why. People just want to don thick coats, breathe in non-humid air, and throw snowballs for a change I guess (just like in the movies). But actually living in the US? People glorify the thought but they have no idea.
As for those who leave, they leave. They don't ever think about making their homeland "a better place" (if and when they get back). That kind of patriotism only exists in the very very few. But anyway, those who go abroad do the economy some good, especially when US dollars are spent here, but it's never the priority or purpose of their leaving in the first place.
| tingkagol wrote: |
But yeah, it is all about the money. I actually thought about leaving at one point, but ultimately figured that I had absolutely no idea what I was chasing after- or why. People just want to don thick coats, breathe in non-humid air, and throw snowballs for a change I guess (just like in the movies). But actually living in the US? People glorify the thought but they have no idea.
As for those who leave, they leave. They don't ever think about making their homeland "a better place" (if and when they get back). That kind of patriotism only exists in the very very few. But anyway, those who go abroad do the economy some good, especially when US dollars are spent here, but it's never the priority or purpose of their leaving in the first place. |
Good that you thought about it carefully. Here and there I do find someone from the Philippines who has definite plans to return and is building and investing in the Philippines to that objective, but in overall quite a large number become second class "slaves" in the countries they move to for work. Bad part is that they are willing to work for any wages, and the same "spunk" that is absent in fighting for a different political future in the Philippines is also missing in the countries that they move to. There is no reason for them to be second-class citizens as they work very hard, and usually have very high qualifications. It is difficult for me to figure this out, as the standard of education in the Philippines is very high, also in the health care industry Philippino people are sought after as they are highly qualified doctors and nurses. But since they usually do not stand up for themselves in their "host" country, they are (with some exceptions) employed in the "cheap" labour category.
Far better to stay where you are as a first-class citizen. If you had moved to a different country this no doubt would have upset you greatly. | deanhills wrote: |
| tingkagol wrote: | I think we are more interested in the "showbiz" side of politics than the politics itself. Whoever offers themselves in a bigger plate definitely has a good chance of winning- so anyone with great media exposure, campaign clout, etc, can very well be a "candidate". This is where Estrada capitalized.
As for Gringo Honasan- I don't really know how or why, but I guess it all boils down to ignorance / lack of education plus the constant bombardment of political advertisements/propaganda- the more a politician's face is shown to the people, the more they'll vote for him.
lol. I know I sound jaded, not to mention too enthusiastic to share the ugliness of Philippine politics. |
I'm wondering whether the fact that so many of the better educated people from the Phillipines are working overseas has to do with lack of interest in making their country a better place or making a better living so that they can make their country a better place. I always thought it was the latter, but perhaps there are good reasons for those who do leave, even though they are supporting members of their families, eventually not to return. |
That's an interesting idea... and it may hold true for more countries than just that one...
It might explain the severity of Mexico's problems as well, and perhaps others too.
Having a large portion of the best people in your country leave can't be good for the country.I've developed a philosophy these past few years after pondering if I should / shouldn't leave the country. It's a bit primitive, but if you're a Filipino- stay a Filipino. Live in your homeland.
| deanhills wrote: |
| ...also in the health care industry Philippino people are sought after as they are highly qualified doctors and nurses. |
It's funny that you mentioned that. The most sought-after college course today by students in the Philippines (probably beginning in the early 2000s) is Nursing. I'm not saying that in amongst the other professions in the medical field, I'm saying that with respect to every available profession- Engineering, Managerial, Architecture, Accounting, etc... Nursing emerges as the victor. And it is well-known fact that whoever takes up nursing is planning on leaving the country. (If you read that article, the country isn't really losing nurses we can't house in the first place.)
Yeah, leaving is certainly all the rave. | tingkagol wrote: |
I've developed a philosophy these past few years after pondering if I should / shouldn't leave the country. It's a bit primitive, but if you're a Filipino- stay a Filipino. Live in your homeland.
| deanhills wrote: | | ...also in the health care industry Philippino people are sought after as they are highly qualified doctors and nurses. |
It's funny that you mentioned that. The most sought-after college course today by students in the Philippines (probably beginning in the early 2000s) is Nursing. I'm not saying that in amongst the other professions in the medical field, I'm saying that with respect to every available profession- Engineering, Managerial, Architecture, Accounting, etc... Nursing emerges as the victor. And it is well-known fact that whoever takes up nursing is planning on leaving the country. (If you read that article, the country isn't really losing nurses we can't house in the first place.)
Yeah, leaving is certainly all the rave. |
That sounds really unfair, the Philippines being responsible for training nurses that are being used by other countries. I wonder whether they could make it a requirement for nurses to work "x" number of years in the Philippines after their training?I am now finally a registered voter. I guess I should start getting curious about politics since now I am able to vote.
| deanhills wrote: |
| That sounds really unfair, the Philippines being responsible for training nurses that are being used by other countries. I wonder whether they could make it a requirement for nurses to work "x" number of years in the Philippines after their training? |
I think if you're a fresh graduate, you have to have at least 2 years experience before you can work abroad. (I'm not sure, don't quote me on that.)
Anyway, back to the elections:
This guy is rumored to run for Vice President.
....
This election is more an amusement than anything else.I had a look at your current President, Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo. It would appear that she is very highly qualified:
| Quote: |
A professor of economics, Arroyo entered government in 1987, serving as assistant secretary and undersecretary of the Department of Trade and Industry upon the invitation of President Corazon Aquino. After serving as a senator from 1992 to 1998, she was elected to the vice presidency under President Joseph Estrada, despite having run on an opposing ticket. After Estrada was accused of corruption, she resigned her cabinet position as Secretary of Social Welfare and Development and joined the growing opposition to the president, who faced impeachment. Estrada was soon forced from office by what its advocates would ascribe to peaceful street demonstrations of the EDSA Revolution of 2001, but which critics credit to a conspiracy among political and business elites, military top brass and Catholic Church bishop Jaime Cardinal Sin. Arroyo was sworn into the presidency by then-Chief Justice Hilario Davide, Jr. at around noon on January 20, 2001 amidst the EDSA II crowd, hours before Estrada left Malacañang. She was elected to a full six-year presidential term in the controversial May 2004 Philippine elections, and was sworn in on June 30, 2004. Arroyo is nearing her 10th year in power and is currently serving the 2nd longest presidential term in Philippine history, next to Ferdinand Marcos.
In the 2009 rankings of Most Powerful Women by Forbes, she was ranked as the 44th most powerful woman in the world. |
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Macapagal-Arroyo
Will she be competing in this election? Officials say she is eligible to run for the Vice Presidential seat this coming elections, though I doubt she'll do it. She'll most likely govern in the small provinces as opposed to governing nationally. The opposition, and the people who support them, have steadily increased in numbers following her alleged "cheating" in the last elections, though the evidence wasn't strong enough to support the allegations.
Despite the lack of evidence, people have been clamoring for her resignation ever since, and if she's the person I always thought she was, I think she'll decline any national position come the 2010 elections. It must be said that I am a casual supporter of her, though not rabid. And I think at the time of the last elections she was more qualified than any of those who ran.
I just hope the people who voted for her have remained silent all along amidst all the controversy (people like myself), and hopefully vote in the bulk during the elections. Are we surprice? most of us were not surprised on the announcement of Former President Erap Estrada that he will run for President in the 2010 national elections. He already made previous statements that if the opposition can't find a common candidate against the administration, he will run. Right now the opposition will be fielding at least 4 presidentiables which may just divide the peoples decision to have a new president who can promise change and development for the country.
Estrada's camp chose Tondo as the venue of the Pronouncement because they believe that the masses still support him. It also portrays the existing scenario or condition of the Filipino people. He focused on the failure of the current administration to address poverty and corruption. He made mentioned of the surveys of the SWS that almost 50 percent of filipinos consider themselves as poor. pilipino people wake up please!
| airh3ad wrote: |
| Right now the opposition will be fielding at least 4 presidentiables which may just divide the peoples decision to have a new president |
I do envy the amount of choices you have, even if most are bad. | tingkagol wrote: |
| Officials say she is eligible to run for the Vice Presidential seat this coming elections, though I doubt she'll do it. She'll most likely govern in the small provinces as opposed to governing nationally. The opposition, and the people who support them, have steadily increased in numbers following her alleged "cheating" in the last elections, though the evidence wasn't strong enough to support the allegations. |
Wow! Sounds as though all those participating in presidential elections, or getting elected are basically "corrupt" in the Philippines? In your opinion, in the Philippines, has there ever really been an honest President, or someone standing for election for President in the past? | tingkagol wrote: |
This guy is rumored to run for Vice President. |
Confirmed. The guy runs.
*sigh* The popularity contest continues...
| deanhills wrote: |
| Wow! Sounds as though all those participating in presidential elections, or getting elected are basically "corrupt" in the Philippines? In your opinion, in the Philippines, has there ever really been an honest President, or someone standing for election for President in the past? |
I would say Cory Aquino is the least corrupt, but I think she was too much of a housewife to think about money and business, or she was merely keeping slain candidate Benigno Aquino's name clean (her husband, who was set to run against late dictator Ferdinand Marcos).I find it interested that Joseph Estrada has been both a member of a Conservative and a Centre-Left party.
Incumbent President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo apparently went to university with former US President Bill Clinton.
