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Child Abuse Legislation





Afaceinthematrix
Several people at my work have given their children extremely unique and weird names. I won't list them here out of the privacy for those children, but take my word for it. They have been given extremely unique names.

Now, for anyone who has gone to school, you'll probably know that children often get bullied/made fun of/beat up over things like this. Hell, when I was in middle school I got made fun of for my last name (until I beat up the kid doing it and set an example for his friends) and my dad was made fun of for his last name when he was in school. Children tend to make fun of other children for them doing or having anything unusual.

So this is my question: If you know that children get made fun of for unusual or weird names and that they'll possibly get beat up, and you give your child a name like this, are you responsible for child abuse? Furthermore, is it selfish to give your child a name based on your own likes (mixing the names of your two favorite Star Trek characters, for instance) when you know that it will cause your child grief in later years?
ocalhoun
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
Children tend to make fun of other children for them doing or having anything unusual.

Children tend to make fun of other children in order to build up their own image. They WILL find something to make fun of.
Quote:
Furthermore, is it selfish to give your child a name based on your own likes [...] when you know that it will cause your child grief in later years?

Which is the worse grief? To be picked on, or to have an example that tells you "it's always better to conform to the group; be the same as everybody else"?
Afaceinthematrix
ocalhoun wrote:
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
Children tend to make fun of other children for them doing or having anything unusual.

Children tend to make fun of other children in order to build up their own image. They WILL find something to make fun of.


Well, based on personal experience, I was picked on for my name (until I beat someone's ass and set an example for others) and not much else... The people that are picked on tend to be the people that are different.

Quote:
Quote:
Furthermore, is it selfish to give your child a name based on your own likes [...] when you know that it will cause your child grief in later years?

Which is the worse grief? To be picked on, or to have an example that tells you "it's always better to conform to the group; be the same as everybody else"?


That's not the example that you want to teach your kids; you want to teach them to be different when it involves drugs and such. But that's one thing. Giving bullies ammo is another...
deanhills
I think there should be a rule about this, that when children are given names that are "rediculous" that these not be accepted when they are registered with local Government. For example, in South Africa especially in poor communities, children are being named after parts of computers and the internet. They are called Disk, Internet, PC, Floppy, IT. Or Justice, Peace, China, US, etc. One can look at it with a sense of humour, but I can't imagine it could be fun for children who are being made fun off in the end.
ocalhoun
Afaceinthematrix wrote:

That's not the example that you want to teach your kids; you want to teach them to be different when it involves drugs and such. But that's one thing. Giving bullies ammo is another...

And a refusal to be involved in 'drugs and such' won't give bullies ammo?

Everyone is different in some way, which gives bullies all the ammo they need. They'll always pick on people until they stand up for themselves like you did.

What difference does it make if the bullying is about your name, or your refusal to try drugs, or your hairstyle, or that you saw fit to be friends with an unpopular kid?

A child has to learn sometime to stand up for himself, and that it's okay to be different. Otherwise he'll be doomed (like so many people) to spend his whole life trying desperately to conform to the group. A sad, wasted life, really.
Afaceinthematrix
ocalhoun wrote:
Afaceinthematrix wrote:

That's not the example that you want to teach your kids; you want to teach them to be different when it involves drugs and such. But that's one thing. Giving bullies ammo is another...

And a refusal to be involved in 'drugs and such' won't give bullies ammo?


I never got made fun of for not doing drugs... And besides, there's a practical purpose for not doing drugs. What's the practical purpose of naming your child Disk (using Deanhills' example)? That's just embarrassing for the child...

Quote:
Everyone is different in some way, which gives bullies all the ammo they need. They'll always pick on people until they stand up for themselves like you did.

What difference does it make if the bullying is about your name, or your refusal to try drugs, or your hairstyle, or that you saw fit to be friends with an unpopular kid?


Hairstyle and friends are a choice of the child... No one chooses their name... Just like I didn't chose my last name.

Quote:
A child has to learn sometime to stand up for himself, and that it's okay to be different. Otherwise he'll be doomed (like so many people) to spend his whole life trying desperately to conform to the group. A sad, wasted life, really.


I'm not saying that conformity is good; I'm just saying that giving your child an embarrassing name is a pretty mean thing to do...
ocalhoun
Afaceinthematrix wrote:


Hairstyle and friends are a choice of the child... No one chooses their name... Just like I didn't chose my last name.

This is about the last name!? Parents usually don't choose that either. Traditionally, it's passed down from parent to child, if they like it or not. They pass it on you just like it was passed on to them.

But, perhaps there are benefits later on that make up for being bullied in school.
(Is there anybody here (besides bullies) who were not bullied in school?)
It'll make your name more memorable when you're grown, which may give you more opportunities.
Ophois
I can't help it. I have to get in on this thread.
First off, I was a white kid growing up in areas where I was a minority. For a while it was a Mexican end of town, and for many years it was on a Pasqua Yaqui reservation. Bullying? Yeah, got my share of that, for sure, just being a pale-face. Secondly... and I normally wouldn't reveal this on a forum, but it's too good to pass up, my last name is "Cuff". As in 'hand cuffs' and whatnot. Doesn't seem so bad, until you say it backwards. Kids are brutal. My first name(which I won't say) is even further off the beaten path.

I may as well have had a target drawn on my back
I'm not bitter though. Don't get me wrong, as a kid I hated my name and the fact that I didn't fit in racially with anyone around(or very few). But as I got older, it made me stronger. I realized that my dad chose my name for a reason, and my surname I just can't do anything about(and I'm proud of it dammit =P).
I went through my acne phase, which earned me no small amount of ridicule, then there was my being in drama and music and art classes... and to top it all off, I was a tall and lanky kid, long haired, a loner... just a good target for people who needed to project their insecurities on someone else.

What I'm trying to say is this: What's in a name?
Screw a name. It's like a set of clothes that you are born with. And as we all know, the clothes don't make the man, the man makes the clothes. Your name doesn't define you, you define your name. Make your name worth having, even if it is "Disk". Force that name into the history books and onto the lips and tongues of everyone you meet. Deal with the crap and the bullying and redefine the name, own it, make it something that people remember.
No matter how normal you think you are, certain kids will always find a reason to be douche bags.

...........................................At this point, I had a 2 hour break which involved alcohol............

To conclude this overly long winded post, we are who we are. We will be made fun of, we will be ridiculed, we will be the target of aggression... but what has that made us? Look at this forum! We have the most outspoken and passionate opinions, and the most well thought out, rational points and counter-points. I would like to think that some of this could be ascribed to our strange names, our odd features, our unique personalities... all of which , at some point, were the focus of those who would belittle us.
But here we are.
Unique.
Beautiful.
Strong.
All of us.
deanhills
So I guess what you are saying is along the lines of "what does not break you, (especially) makes you stronger"! That is true. I had a friend like that, his last name rhymed with bastard, he was thin and lanky, insecure and shy and a natural victim. When he got into his twenties he started working out, I doubt anyone would mess with him as he is now, he is very solid and a Karate expert. Including a character that is strong, outgoing with an excellent sense of humour.

Why is it that I get the feeling however that there is much more bullying than there has been before? Is it my imagination? Also children are much more empowered than they were before? Children can even take their parents to courts these days? So yes, one cannot go all the way to protect children from being bullied as there is a part where they have to stand up for themselves, but surely when a Government official finds someone submitting a name for a baby that is obviously idiotic in the extreme, then it could save that baby at least from that bullying. Would be nice in any event if the world could try and at least get some uniformity in naming kids. Cap it on three names, and cap the total number of letters in the three names. Also set a standard for the names that is dignified and becoming.
Afaceinthematrix
ocalhoun wrote:
Afaceinthematrix wrote:


Hairstyle and friends are a choice of the child... No one chooses their name... Just like I didn't chose my last name.

This is about the last name!? Parents usually don't choose that either. Traditionally, it's passed down from parent to child, if they like it or not. They pass it on you just like it was passed on to them.

But, perhaps there are benefits later on that make up for being bullied in school.
(Is there anybody here (besides bullies) who were not bullied in school?)
It'll make your name more memorable when you're grown, which may give you more opportunities.


No, this isn't about a last name. This is about names in general. My question was, "Is it child abuse to give your child a name that you know will cause them grief?" Last names aren't given. My father also got bullied for our last name back in his day...

I just brought up a last name as an example on how many bullies will not just pick on anything... They go for easy targets, like names...
handfleisch
Consult the sage.

Johnny Cash, "Boy Named Sue" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H2AIh6Rc3M

BTW aren't you so-called conservatives supposed to be against making laws against everything?
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:
BTW aren't you so-called conservatives supposed to be against making laws against everything?
Wrong .... and wrong again. Ocalhoun was quite specific in being a liberal, I think I'm somewhere in between liberal and conservative, I don't sit well with labels though. Not sure what matrix is. What are you Handfleisch?

By the way, I like Johny Cash personality wise. Nice photo.

As far as child abuse is concerned, more legislation is good for me than less legislation, I would say legislate away!

I would say that the abuse regarding naming children has to be a joint one with parents and Government as Government gets to issue the Birth Certificates There should be rules about names, not only for curbing bullying as a result of really rediculous names, but also to standardize names, such as we do with passwords for example. It would simplify a lot in the world.
handfleisch
deanhills wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
BTW aren't you so-called conservatives supposed to be against making laws against everything?
Wrong .... and wrong again. Ocalhoun was quite specific in being a liberal, I think I'm somewhere in between liberal and conservative, I don't sit well with labels though. Not sure what matrix is. What are you Handfleisch?

By the way, I like Johny Cash personality wise. Nice photo.

As far as child abuse is concerned, more legislation is good for me than less legislation, I would say legislate away!

I would say that the abuse regarding naming children has to be a joint one with parents and Government as Government gets to issue the Birth Certificates There should be rules about names, not only for curbing bullying as a result of really rediculous names, but also to standardize names, such as we do with passwords for example. It would simplify a lot in the world.

Wow, you guys are united in the need to outlaw certain names? The same folks who whine that universal health insurance or saving troubled industries is too much government control want the government to control what name we can give our children! That's entertaining. You know, some Communist countries under Soviet domination had a strict registry of names that were allowed. Some places like Moldova or Belorussia might still have them, so you'd be happy there.
Afaceinthematrix
handfleisch wrote:
deanhills wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
BTW aren't you so-called conservatives supposed to be against making laws against everything?
Wrong .... and wrong again. Ocalhoun was quite specific in being a liberal, I think I'm somewhere in between liberal and conservative, I don't sit well with labels though. Not sure what matrix is. What are you Handfleisch?

By the way, I like Johny Cash personality wise. Nice photo.

As far as child abuse is concerned, more legislation is good for me than less legislation, I would say legislate away!

I would say that the abuse regarding naming children has to be a joint one with parents and Government as Government gets to issue the Birth Certificates There should be rules about names, not only for curbing bullying as a result of really rediculous names, but also to standardize names, such as we do with passwords for example. It would simplify a lot in the world.

Wow, you guys are united in the need to outlaw certain names? The same folks who whine that universal health insurance or saving troubled industries is too much government control want the government to control what name we can give our children! That's entertaining. You know, some Communist countries under Soviet domination had a strict registry of names that were allowed. Some places like Moldova or Belorussia might still have them, so you'd be happy there.


And I whined about universal health care and saving troubled industries where? I'm all for big government...
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:
The same folks who whine that universal health insurance or saving troubled industries is too much government control want the government to control what name we can give our children!
Not to control Handfleisch. To create order. Such as the order that is being created with managing student loans. I'm sure Obama is not thinking of deciding who is going to get loans or not, he just wants it to be more effectively administrated. Certain child names are really absurd. We are not talking about average names, the ones that really stare you in the face as being completely absurd and potentially harmful to children along the lines of "child abuse".
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
BTW aren't you so-called conservatives supposed to be against making laws against everything?
Wrong .... and wrong again. Ocalhoun was quite specific in being a liberal, I think I'm somewhere in between liberal and conservative, I don't sit well with labels though. Not sure what matrix is. What are you Handfleisch?

No! I am not liberal. I'm Libertarian; there's quite a difference there.
And as such, I am entirely against the government intervening in any way about childrens' names.

As for Handfleisch, he thinks himself a centerist. (In the 'international' sense, I'm sure.)
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
deanhills wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
BTW aren't you so-called conservatives supposed to be against making laws against everything?
Wrong .... and wrong again. Ocalhoun was quite specific in being a liberal, I think I'm somewhere in between liberal and conservative, I don't sit well with labels though. Not sure what matrix is. What are you Handfleisch?

No! I am not liberal. I'm Libertarian; there's quite a difference there.
Sorry Ocalhoun. I learned that yesterday for the first time when I was reading through the parties. Would have been my choice as well.

ocalhoun wrote:
And as such, I am entirely against the government intervening in any way about childrens' names.
I am only concerned with the really rediculous ones that could be harmful to children. Given by parents who were obviously abusing them or poking fun with no regard for the child.

ocalhoun wrote:
As for Handfleisch, he thinks himself a centerist. (In the 'international' sense, I'm sure.)
I thought he was a Democrat? He sounded as though he was supporting Obama? Or did you mean a Democrat with a centrist position, Obama being a centrist too?
handfleisch
deanhills wrote:

ocalhoun wrote:
And as such, I am entirely against the government intervening in any way about childrens' names.
I am only concerned with the really rediculous ones that could be harmful to children. Given by parents who were obviously abusing them or poking fun with no regard for the child.

ocalhoun wrote:
As for Handfleisch, he thinks himself a centerist. (In the 'international' sense, I'm sure.)
I thought he was a Democrat? He sounded as though he was supporting Obama? Or did you mean a Democrat with a centrist position, Obama being a centrist too?


The Democrats are a centrist party. Obama is a centrist politician. I am registered independent. But people talking about outlawing names brings the anarchist out in me. (Though, interestingly, Germany does have such regulations...)
Quote:

Want to name your baby? Better pick a name that the local Standesamt (office of vital statistics) agrees with. If they don't agree to register the name you picked, you have to appeal the decision. By German law, a child's name has to meet two conditions: (1) it must reflect the sex of the child, and (2) it must not endanger the 'well-being of the child.' A German couple who wanted to honor their favorite actress, Whoopi Goldberg, by naming their child Whoopi had their application rejected because, among other thing, the name resembles the English expression 'making whoopee.' Another daughter from a mixed Chinese-German marriage was to receive the name Fae-Schüe. The Standesamt did not approve the name until it had first checked with the Chinese embassy to verify that the name was indeed a common Chinese name meaning 'snowflake.'
As a result of this kind of control, most Germans end up with rather conventional first names such as Julia, Julian, Phillip, Maria, Maximilian, Lisa, or Christian...

http://german.about.com/library/blname_reg.htm

Next door, the Czech Republic has technically changed their law but in practice it would still be hard to name your child Lightbulb:

Quote:
During the Communist era, parents needed special permission form to give a child a name that does not have a name day on the Czech calendar. Since 1989, parents have had the right to give their child any name they wish, provided it is used somewhere in the world and is not insulting or demeaning. However, the common practice is that the most birth-record offices look for the name in the book "Jak se bude vaše dítě jmenovat?" (What is your child going to be called?), ISBN 80-200-1349-0, the semi-official list of "allowed" names. If the name is not found there, offices are extremely unwilling to register the child's name.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_names

I have a feeling there are more countries with these baby name rules that I don't know about...
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:

The Democrats are a centrist party. Obama is a centrist politician. I am registered independent. But people talking about outlawing names brings the anarchist out in me. (Though, interestingly, Germany does have such regulations...)
OK. Got it .... was just thinking. If the Democrats are centrist, and the Republicans to the Right, then the Democrats are to the left of the Republicans? Although it would also seem that we do not know what the Republicans are any longer. Its Far Right side is all over the place, and not only has "its centre" gone quiet, but seem to be dispersing. Hopefully they have bottomed out though as I usually like a good fight between the two. Right now it has become a rediculous one.
handfleisch wrote:
Want to name your baby? Better pick a name that the local Standesamt (office of vital statistics) agrees with. If they don't agree to register the name you picked, you have to appeal the decision. By German law, a child's name has to meet two conditions: (1) it must reflect the sex of the child, and (2) it must not endanger the 'well-being of the child.' A German couple who wanted to honor their favorite actress, Whoopi Goldberg, by naming their child Whoopi had their application rejected because, among other thing, the name resembles the English expression 'making whoopee.' Another daughter from a mixed Chinese-German marriage was to receive the name Fae-Schüe. The Standesamt did not approve the name until it had first checked with the Chinese embassy to verify that the name was indeed a common Chinese name meaning 'snowflake.'
As a result of this kind of control, most Germans end up with rather conventional first names such as Julia, Julian, Phillip, Maria, Maximilian, Lisa, or Christian...
http://german.about.com/library/blname_reg.htm

handfleisch wrote:
Next door, the Czech Republic has technically changed their law but in practice it would still be hard to name your child Lightbulb:
Quote:
During the Communist era, parents needed special permission form to give a child a name that does not have a name day on the Czech calendar. Since 1989, parents have had the right to give their child any name they wish, provided it is used somewhere in the world and is not insulting or demeaning. However, the common practice is that the most birth-record offices look for the name in the book "Jak se bude vaše dítě jmenovat?" (What is your child going to be called?), ISBN 80-200-1349-0, the semi-official list of "allowed" names. If the name is not found there, offices are extremely unwilling to register the child's name.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_names

I have a feeling there are more countries with these baby name rules that I don't know about...

Thanks for this. That is really very interesting. Especially the legislation in Germany. Sort of makes good sense.
bigt
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
.....
.....
So this is my question: If you know that children get made fun of for unusual or weird names and that they'll possibly get beat up, and you give your child a name like this, are you responsible for child abuse? Furthermore, is it selfish to give your child a name based on your own likes (mixing the names of your two favorite Star Trek characters, for instance) when you know that it will cause your child grief in later years?


No, I think the parents are stupid, but it's not child abuse to be an idiot parent.
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