The Senate voted 83-7 to ban ACORN from receiving HUD funds and the house just voted 345-75 to strip funding to ACORN. Why have so many Dems and "powers that be" turned against ACORN?
ACORN Funding
| jwellsy wrote: |
| The Senate voted 83-7 to ban ACORN from receiving HUD funds and the house just voted 345-75 to strip funding to ACORN. Why have so many Dems and "powers that be" turned against ACORN? |
Cause of the emerging videotaped scandal involving ACORN would be my guess.......
| jwellsy wrote: |
| The Senate voted 83-7 to ban ACORN from receiving HUD funds and the house just voted 345-75 to strip funding to ACORN. Why have so many Dems and "powers that be" turned against ACORN? |
Sounds like another complicated conspiracy theory of the right wing lunatics. Please go on!
| handfleisch wrote: | ||
Sounds like another complicated conspiracy theory of the right wing lunatics. Please go on! |
Right... ACORN is a completely honest and virtuous organization, and anything said against it is just vicious rumors started by the 'wingnuts'.
| ocalhoun wrote: | ||||
Right... ACORN is a completely honest and virtuous organization, and anything said against it is just vicious rumors started by the 'wingnuts'. |
LMAO.....exactly. Plus, the Democrats in the Senate and House (remember, the Democrats....
the ones that actually CONTROL both houses of Congress?) usually go along with the right
wing lunatics conspiracies.........
The witch hunt against ACORN is the a new McCarthyism. Two biased wannabe journalists spend months going around the country to ACORN offices, sometimes getting kicked out and usually getting rejected, before they found a couple people who said the wrong thing. Then they and FOX News selectively edit the tapes and try to tear down an entire organization. It's lies and witchhunting at its worst. It's a shame from a shameless propaganda agency in an ugly smear job, and anyone who pushes or even believes it should also be ashamed.
| handfleisch wrote: |
| The witch hunt against ACORN is the a new McCarthyism. Two biased wannabe journalists spend months going around the country to ACORN offices, sometimes getting kicked out and usually getting rejected, before they found a couple people who said the wrong thing. Then they and FOX News selectively edit the tapes and try to tear down an entire organization. It's lies and witchhunting at its worst. It's a shame from a shameless propaganda agency in an ugly smear job, and anyone who pushes or even believes it should also be ashamed. |
As opposed to Micheal Moore's 'documentaries' on Bush which you should CERTAINLY believe......
| Alaskacameradude wrote: | ||
As opposed to Micheal Moore's 'documentaries' on Bush which you should CERTAINLY believe...... |
I see you have no answer and must change the subject to Michael Moore.
| handfleisch wrote: | ||||
I see you have no answer and must change the subject to Michael Moore. |
Na, I'm just pointing out that this tactic is a....shall we say 'often used' tactic in politics.
| Alaskacameradude wrote: | ||||||
Na, I'm just pointing out that this tactic is a....shall we say 'often used' tactic in politics. |
What are you talking about now? You use a tactic to show it's an abused tactic? Makes no sense to me. And you're still just distracting from the point. As I detailed above, the ACORN smear job by these creeps and FOX is an embarrassment, is the lowest form of yellow hit-piece journalism, and a very ugly thing. Yet you cite it like its credible.
| handfleisch wrote: | ||||||||
What are you talking about now? You use a tactic to show it's an abused tactic? Makes no sense to me. And you're still just distracting from the point. As I detailed above, the ACORN smear job by these creeps and FOX is an embarrassment, is the lowest form of yellow hit-piece journalism, and a very ugly thing. Yet you cite it like its credible. |
I'm pointing out that CREDIBLE tends to change depending on which side of the political fence you
sit.....
| Alaskacameradude wrote: |
|
I'm pointing out that CREDIBLE tends to change depending on which side of the political fence you sit..... |
Uh, not really. Basic rationality can be applied to anything.
If you believe FOX News on anything, especially this ongoing witch hunt which I outlined above, your basic rationality function is kaput.
| handfleisch wrote: | ||
Uh, not really. Basic rationality can be applied to anything. If you believe FOX News on anything, especially this ongoing witch hunt which I outlined above, your basic rationality function is kaput. |
You are welcome to your opinion.....
To bad your fellow liberals in the US Congress happen to disagree with you......
| Alaskacameradude wrote: | ||||
You are welcome to your opinion..... To bad your fellow liberals in the US Congress happen to disagree with you...... |
Sorry, wingnut, I'm a centrist. And if you think the earth is flat, that's not an opinion, get it? Rational judgment of facts and evidence are required. Probably you don't get that, which is why you're a former journalist.
| handfleisch wrote: | ||||||
Sorry, wingnut, I'm a centrist. And if you think the earth is flat, that's not an opinion, get it? Rational judgment of facts and evidence are required. Probably you don't get that, which is why you're a former journalist. |
OOOO....name calling. That's nice. As for evidence.....the evidence shows you are FAR from
a centrist. Oh yeah, I'm a former journalist cause.....the pay sucks....I can make more running
my own production company, and work less hours. As for you saying that the 'facts' in this
case (corrupt Acorn) is anywhere near as straightforward as to the earth being round, THAT is
laughable. I saw on video what I saw.....that's a fact. Accorn is corrupt and needs to be reformed
or done away with...another fact. Sorry you don't like the facts.
| Alaskacameradude wrote: | ||||||||
OOOO....name calling. That's nice. As for evidence.....the evidence shows you are FAR from a centrist. Oh yeah, I'm a former journalist cause.....the pay sucks....I can make more running my own production company, and work less hours. As for you saying that the 'facts' in this case (corrupt Acorn) is anywhere near as straightforward as to the earth being round, THAT is laughable. I saw on video what I saw.....that's a fact. Accorn is corrupt and needs to be reformed or done away with...another fact. Sorry you don't like the facts. |
I'm sure you could have succeeded in journalism if you had stuck with it, what with declining standards and all. You truly don't understand the difference between a fact and an opinion, and that's sad. You obviously don't understand there is such a thing as context to edited interviews, that a small number of facts to support an argument can be cherrypicked to portray something extremely inaccurately. In fact, all you have to do is apply the same standards that you pretend to have concerning Michael Moore's work to this soc-called reportage, and you would see a case of rancid journalism, of a hit piece, of a smear job. But you can't do that.
| handfleisch wrote: | ||||||||||
I'm sure you could have succeeded in journalism if you had stuck with it, what with declining standards and all. You truly don't understand the difference between a fact and an opinion, and that's sad. You obviously don't understand there is such a thing as context to edited interviews, that a small number of facts to support an argument can be cherrypicked to portray something extremely inaccurately. In fact, all you have to do is apply the same standards that you pretend to have concerning Michael Moore's work to this soc-called reportage, and you would see a case of rancid journalism, of a hit piece, of a smear job. But you can't do that. |
And AGAIN I would point out it is not just me but the Democrats in Congress that see the 'facts' as
differently than you. Being that the liberals generally don't go along with 'conservative opinion'
and 'edited interviews' with 'cherry picked facts', I'd have to say there is something to this whole
flap. But you can't admit that so you continue your unfounded allegations.
| Alaskacameradude wrote: |
|
And AGAIN I would point out it is not just me but the Democrats in Congress that see the 'facts' as differently than you. Being that the liberals generally don't go along with 'conservative opinion' and 'edited interviews' with 'cherry picked facts', I'd have to say there is something to this whole flap. But you can't admit that so you continue your unfounded allegations. |
My unfounded allegations? Which ones? You and FOX news are the ones who are making allegations. I am saying let's be careful about those allegations before we smear a large organization due to a witch hunt that turned up a couple people.
Your logic is sure funny, though. You're saying that liberals in Congress said it so it must be true?
Congress cut funding amidst a lot of ugly rumors, and until a real investigation is done, they are just ugly rumors and selectively edited videos. But you're celebrating the fact that Congress would cut funding to an organization that has not been found guilty of anything, and then using the funding cut as proof that the organization is guilty. That's circular reasoning worthy of McCarthy, and against the American value of fair play.
This right-wing attack on ACORN is getting really sick. It turns out one of the ACORN guys who got fired did contact the police, and then nothing happened when it turned out the whole thing was a fake. Yet the guy gets fired anyway and the smear job complete.
One ACORN office even called the police on the two so-called journalists-videotapers while they were there.
Why did the right-wing videotapers go after ACORN? Because ACORN registers minorities too vote!
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/09/19/us/politics/AP-US-ACORNs-Troubles.html?pagewanted=all
The filmmakers also blatantly lied about their research, saying that they were never turned away by ACORN, when in fact a police report exists of the time ACORN called the cops on them.
At this point the situation is this: one or two people might have done something wrong, but at least one was smeared and lost a job because of it. The heavily biased so-called journalists took months of witch-hunting all over the country before getting a couple ACORN workers to say the wrong thing on camera, then used selective editing, questionable overdubbing and sensational smears to target the whole organization.
http://www.10news.com/
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation/AP/story/1244994.html
http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170031
One ACORN office even called the police on the two so-called journalists-videotapers while they were there.
Why did the right-wing videotapers go after ACORN? Because ACORN registers minorities too vote!
| Quote: |
| James O'Keefe, one of the two filmmakers, said he went after ACORN because it registers minorities likely to vote against Republicans: ''Politicians are getting elected single-handedly due to this organization,'' O'Keefe told The Washington Post.
|
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/09/19/us/politics/AP-US-ACORNs-Troubles.html?pagewanted=all
The filmmakers also blatantly lied about their research, saying that they were never turned away by ACORN, when in fact a police report exists of the time ACORN called the cops on them.
At this point the situation is this: one or two people might have done something wrong, but at least one was smeared and lost a job because of it. The heavily biased so-called journalists took months of witch-hunting all over the country before getting a couple ACORN workers to say the wrong thing on camera, then used selective editing, questionable overdubbing and sensational smears to target the whole organization.
| Quote: |
| The now-former ACORN worker said he was merely trying to help the pair because he thought they were in danger.
"I never done anything wrong in my life," Vera said. "They destroyed my family." |
http://www.10news.com/
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation/AP/story/1244994.html
| Quote: |
| Police: ACORN worker in video reported couple
(AP) – 6 hours ago NATIONAL CITY, Calif. — Police say a worker with the activist group ACORN who was caught on video giving advice about human smuggling to a couple posing as a pimp and a prostitute had reported the incident to authorities. National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling. Vera was secretly filmed on Aug. 18 as part of a young couple's high-profile expose. Police say he contacted law enforcement two days later. The detective consulted another police official who served on a federal human smuggling task force, who said he needed more details. The ACORN employee responded several days later and explained that the information he received was not true and he had been duped. Vera was fired on Thursday. |
http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170031
| Quote: |
| Police report filed by ACORN exposes false claims by individuals behind videos |
| handfleisch wrote: | ||
My unfounded allegations? Which ones? You and FOX news are the ones who are making allegations. I am saying let's be careful about those allegations before we smear a large organization due to a witch hunt that turned up a couple people. Your logic is sure funny, though. You're saying that liberals in Congress said it so it must be true? Congress cut funding amidst a lot of ugly rumors, and until a real investigation is done, they are just ugly rumors and selectively edited videos. But you're celebrating the fact that Congress would cut funding to an organization that has not been found guilty of anything, and then using the funding cut as proof that the organization is guilty. That's circular reasoning worthy of McCarthy, and against the American value of fair play. |
Your unfounded allegations concerning 'cherry picked facts' and 'conservative witch hunt.'
I stand by my contention that if there was NOTHING too this as you claim, that Democrats
in Congress would stand behind Acorn against the 'evil' Republicans. They are not doing that.
Why? Because they too know that this organization needs an internal investigation. And that
is what is happening. What's wrong with that? From what appears on these tapes, a
independent investigation looks warranted. But I suppose you think there should be nothing
done and federal funding to them should continue? What if the tables were turned and it
was a 'right wing bunch of wackos' group? Should they receive federal funding to advance THEIR
agenda? What if it was a crazy right wing group which helped 'poor white rednecks' register to vote?
Sorry, but having an independent investigation into Acorn's activities looks warranted. Maybe
it will turn out to show that everything on those tapes was 'edited and doctored' and Acorn will
be found innocent of everything....
| Alaskacameradude wrote: | ||||
Your unfounded allegations concerning 'cherry picked facts' and 'conservative witch hunt.' I stand by my contention that if there was NOTHING too this as you claim, that Democrats in Congress would stand behind Acorn against the 'evil' Republicans. They are not doing that. Why? Because they too know that this organization needs an internal investigation. And that is what is happening. What's wrong with that? From what appears on these tapes, a independent investigation looks warranted. But I suppose you think there should be nothing done and federal funding to them should continue? What if the tables were turned and it was a 'right wing bunch of wackos' group? Should they receive federal funding to advance THEIR agenda? What if it was a crazy right wing group which helped 'poor white rednecks' register to vote? Sorry, but having an independent investigation into Acorn's activities looks warranted. Maybe it will turn out to show that everything on those tapes was 'edited and doctored' and Acorn will be found innocent of everything.... |
Your post makes very little sense and doesn't deal with any of the facts I have listed.
My charge of a conservative witch hunt against ACORN is well-founded, indeed. Not only has the right wing with FOX agitprop been obsessed with them for a year plus, but the filmmaker even said he targeted the group because it registers too many minorities. The filmmakers travelled for months all over the country trying to trap ACORN workers and got at most a couple people, out of an organization of thousands. The filmmakers lied when they said ACORN never tried to kick them out, and there is a police report showing ACORN called the cops on them. The filmmaker didn't use footage of the police kicking them out or the times that ACORN turned them away, and the filmmakers lied about it never happening. That's called cherry-picking. Add these up and you get a witch hunt. Get it?
Any organization that gets involved in controversy gets in trouble and could get their funding cut. That's sad but true. But the controversy and the funding cut doesn't prove a thing, except maybe that Democrats are not so liberal (they are mostly middle of the road) and Congress is less than courageous.
Your comparison of ACORN as being the equivalent of a crazy right wing group is also nonsense. As I have shown above, this propaganda hit-piece proves nothing, so what facts do you have to call them that?
How do you support the filmmakers lying about never getting kicked out by ACORN, when a police report shows that ACORN even called the cops on them? How do you support the filmmaker saying he attacked ACORN because it registers minorities to vote? Don't you think that's sick and undemocratic?
How do you support a man losing his job over this propaganda, when now it turns out that he did call the police, and only went along with the filmmakers because he thought he was protecting the children in the story they were telling?
| handfleisch wrote: | ||||||
Your post makes very little sense and doesn't deal with any of the facts I have listed. My charge of a conservative witch hunt against ACORN is well-founded, indeed. Not only has the right wing with FOX agitprop been obsessed with them for a year plus, but the filmmaker even said he targeted the group because it registers too many minorities. The filmmakers travelled for months all over the country trying to trap ACORN workers and got at most a couple people, out of an organization of thousands. The filmmakers lied when they said ACORN never tried to kick them out, and there is a police report showing ACORN called the cops on them. The filmmaker didn't use footage of the police kicking them out or the times that ACORN turned them away, and the filmmakers lied about it never happening. That's called cherry-picking. Add these up and you get a witch hunt. Get it? Any organization that gets involved in controversy gets in trouble and could get their funding cut. That's sad but true. But the controversy and the funding cut doesn't prove a thing, except maybe that Democrats are not so liberal (they are mostly middle of the road) and Congress is less than courageous. Your comparison of ACORN as being the equivalent of a crazy right wing group is also nonsense. As I have shown above, this propaganda hit-piece proves nothing, so what facts do you have to call them that? How do you support the filmmakers lying about never getting kicked out by ACORN, when a police report shows that ACORN even called the cops on them? How do you support the filmmaker saying he attacked ACORN because it registers minorities to vote? Don't you think that's sick and undemocratic? How do you support a man losing his job over this propaganda, when now it turns out that he did call the police, and only went along with the filmmakers because he thought he was protecting the children in the story they were telling? |
Again, LOTS of claims....nothing to back them up. What facts do you have.....and I'm talking facts
from an unbiased sources, cause if you link to things said by liberals, I will respond by linking to
things said by Fox News.
| Alaskacameradude wrote: |
|
Again, LOTS of claims....nothing to back them up. What facts do you have.....and I'm talking facts from an unbiased sources, cause if you link to things said by liberals, I will respond by linking to things said by Fox News. |
The police is a source biased toward ACORN? The facts about the filmmakers are by their own accounts, that they spent months visiting ACORN offices around the country. The quote about the filmmaker going after ACORN because it registers minorities is out of his own mouth. The fact that a couple low-level employees coaxed into saying the wrong thing on camera do not represent an organization of thousands is simple math and logic. The fact that we have only the heavily edited final cut, a few minutes out of hundreds of hours of videotaping, by the biased filmmakers, is also obvious. All you have is the final product of these suspect filmmakers and what FOX agitprop inc. has said.
| handfleisch wrote: | ||
The police is a source biased toward ACORN? The facts about the filmmakers are by their own accounts, that they spent months visiting ACORN offices around the country. The quote about the filmmaker going after ACORN because it registers minorities is out of his own mouth. The fact that a couple low-level employees coaxed into saying the wrong thing on camera do not represent an organization of thousands is simple math and logic. The fact that we have only the heavily edited final cut, a few minutes out of hundreds of hours of videotaping, by the biased filmmakers, is also obvious. All you have is the final product of these suspect filmmakers and what FOX agitprop inc. has said. |
No, I'm just saying I haven't seen the police report that you claim shows this, that's all I was saying.....have a link? And I think the point is, that there was obviously SOME corruption there at
Acorn. Now maybe as you claim, it is only a couple low level employees. In that case, an
independent investigation should clear Acorn right?
We do need an independent investigation -- of the rightwing filmmakers. And since ACORN is suing the hack wannabes, we should get one. Then we'll find out who was funding their witchhunt across the USA. We should see the weeks of video that was selectively edited down to a few minutes. We should see them getting kicked out of ACORN offices, of the police arriving to get rid of them (unless the blatantly dishonest filmmakers erased the video already.)
On edit, the links are all above (Miami Herald, etc) and here's a new one
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/11/ldt.01.html
CNN's Dobbs saying they have a copy of the police report from when ACORN called the cops on these frauds. So that proves the filmmakers are lying. About the Media Matters links, they have the FOX network programs with the transcripts with the filmmakers speaking, pointing out their claims that have proven to be lies. If you don't want to watch it on Media Matters you can find the same FOX programs here http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ACORN+filmmakers+FOX&search_type=&aq=f
On edit, the links are all above (Miami Herald, etc) and here's a new one
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/11/ldt.01.html
CNN's Dobbs saying they have a copy of the police report from when ACORN called the cops on these frauds. So that proves the filmmakers are lying. About the Media Matters links, they have the FOX network programs with the transcripts with the filmmakers speaking, pointing out their claims that have proven to be lies. If you don't want to watch it on Media Matters you can find the same FOX programs here http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ACORN+filmmakers+FOX&search_type=&aq=f
| handfleisch wrote: |
| We do need an independent investigation -- of the rightwing filmmakers. |
Right... because the best way to get rid of corruption is to investigate anybody who reports corruption. Brilliant plan!
Reports of corruption should fall significantly.
| handfleisch wrote: |
| We do need an independent investigation -- of the rightwing filmmakers. And since ACORN is suing the hack wannabes, we should get one. Then we'll find out who was funding their witchhunt across the USA. We should see the weeks of video that was selectively edited down to a few minutes. We should see them getting kicked out of ACORN offices, of the police arriving to get rid of them (unless the blatantly dishonest filmmakers erased the video already.)
On edit, the links are all above (Miami Herald, etc) and here's a new one http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/11/ldt.01.html CNN's Dobbs saying they have a copy of the police report from when ACORN called the cops on these frauds. So that proves the filmmakers are lying. About the Media Matters links, they have the FOX network programs with the transcripts with the filmmakers speaking, pointing out their claims that have proven to be lies. If you don't want to watch it on Media Matters you can find the same FOX programs here http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ACORN+filmmakers+FOX&search_type=&aq=f |
CNN's Dobbs CLAIMING they have a copy of the police report??? Yeah, that 'proves' something.
I trust CNN about as far as you trust FOX. Next.
| ocalhoun wrote: | ||
Right... because the best way to get rid of corruption is to investigate anybody who reports corruption. Brilliant plan! Reports of corruption should fall significantly. |
You got it. Check this out....
http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/093009/opi_499195877.shtml
| Alaskacameradude wrote: | ||
CNN's Dobbs CLAIMING they have a copy of the police report??? Yeah, that 'proves' something. I trust CNN about as far as you trust FOX. Next. |
LOL. Now rightwing Lou Dobbs is part of your conspiracy to support ACORN. Dude, even FOX now admits it:
| Quote: |
| ACORN Worker in Video Reported Duo to Police |
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,553423,00.html
If this is the only defense you have to your discredited premise, basically you have no defense. I have shown that there is conservative witch hunt against ACORN. To recap: Not only has the right wing with FOX agitprop been obsessed with them for a year plus, but one filmmaker even said he targeted the group because it registers too many minorities and that his aim was to "destroy his political enemies." The filmmakers travelled for months all over the country trying to trap ACORN workers and got at most a couple people, out of an organization of thousands. The filmmakers lied when they said ACORN never tried to kick them out, when in fact ACORN called the cops on them. One ACORN employee is out of a job due to all this, despite proof he did call the police and his claim that everything he did was to protect the children in the filmmaker's bogus story. The filmmaker didn't use footage of the police kicking them out or the times that ACORN turned them away, and the filmmakers lied about it never happening. The filmmaker has refused to release the full, unedited videotapes. If you can show any of this to be not true, go for it.
You might just want to avoid carrying the ball for any post by the discredited OP.
BTW the witchhunt against ACORN continues, still full of outright errors: The rightwing American Spectator magazine claims that the White House political affairs officer is an ACORN staffer. WRONG. Never was.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-show-seiu-next-target-right
| Quote: |
|
LOL. Now rightwing Lou Dobbs is part of your conspiracy to support ACORN. Dude, even FOX now admits it: Quote: ACORN Worker in Video Reported Duo to Police http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,553423,00.html If this is the only defense you have to your discredited premise, basically you have no defense. I have shown that there is conservative witch hunt against ACORN. To recap: Not only has the right wing with FOX agitprop been obsessed with them for a year plus, but one filmmaker even said he targeted the group because it registers too many minorities and that his aim was to "destroy his political enemies." The filmmakers travelled for months all over the country trying to trap ACORN workers and got at most a couple people, out of an organization of thousands. The filmmakers lied when they said ACORN never tried to kick them out, when in fact ACORN called the cops on them. One ACORN employee is out of a job due to all this, despite proof he did call the police and his claim that everything he did was to protect the children in the filmmaker's bogus story. The filmmaker didn't use footage of the police kicking them out or the times that ACORN turned them away, and the filmmakers lied about it never happening. The filmmaker has refused to release the full, unedited videotapes. If you can show any of this to be not true, go for it. You might just want to avoid carrying the ball for any post by the discredited OP. |
Hey, I just said I hadn't seen anything about a police report and wanted to see something
other than a 'claim' by a CNN anchor. Now that I've read the article I have to say this.
Reporting something to the police TWO DAYS after it happened? Really? This is your attempt
to 'prove' this workers innocence? I can't even tell you how many people that were
convicted of murder 'reported' to the police that 'my wife (or husband or child) had an accident'.
When a person calls TWO DAYS after the incident, and NOT when it actually happened......
sorry, that looks like the action of someone who realizes that they are in trouble and tries
to 'fix' the situation. If he was really concerned, he would have called the police IMMEDIATELY!!!!
Kind of like those uninsured motorists that get in an accident and try to call and buy insurance
on their cell phones......IT IS TOO LATE NOW! Busted.
[quote="Alaskacameradude"]
Well now that you are arguing the ramifications of the minutiae, I assume that means you understand the whole larger argument about ACORN was wrong. BTW, there were two at least two different calls to the police by ACORN about the suspicious right wing filmmakers. On the other one, they called the police immediately. Here is the police report, and below is the other side of the story by the ACORN worker who called the police.
ACORN CALLED THE COPS ON RIGHT WING FILMMAKERS
http://www.youtube.com/v/8QjyIiDUyoY
| Quote: |
|
Hey, I just said I hadn't seen anything about a police report and wanted to see something other than a 'claim' by a CNN anchor. Now that I've read the article I have to say this. Reporting something to the police TWO DAYS after it happened? Really? This is your attempt to 'prove' this workers innocence? I can't even tell you how many people that were convicted of murder 'reported' to the police that 'my wife (or husband or child) had an accident'. When a person calls TWO DAYS after the incident, and NOT when it actually happened...... sorry, that looks like the action of someone who realizes that they are in trouble and tries to 'fix' the situation. If he was really concerned, he would have called the police IMMEDIATELY!!!! Kind of like those uninsured motorists that get in an accident and try to call and buy insurance on their cell phones......IT IS TOO LATE NOW! Busted. |
Well now that you are arguing the ramifications of the minutiae, I assume that means you understand the whole larger argument about ACORN was wrong. BTW, there were two at least two different calls to the police by ACORN about the suspicious right wing filmmakers. On the other one, they called the police immediately. Here is the police report, and below is the other side of the story by the ACORN worker who called the police.
ACORN CALLED THE COPS ON RIGHT WING FILMMAKERS
http://www.youtube.com/v/8QjyIiDUyoY
Fair warning: I haven't been following this story closely, but have just seen some headlines and high-level reporting. So I don't know all the details.
But my question is what does it even matter if what Handfleisch says is true about them calling the cops a couple of days later? Even if ACORN called the cops a couple of days after they figured out they were being punked, does that excuse their actions? It would seem to me that there is at the very least an appearance of malfeasance, so an investigation is warranted. If ACORN was a privately funded entity that did not claim non-profit status, I would say it’s all unnecessary since they wouldn’t be taking and spending taxpayer money. But if Obama really wants to follow through on his promises of transparency in regards to government spending, he should be the first to call for a review. If the issue Handfleisch has is that Congress cut off some of their funding before an investigation was completed, I’d say go his beef is with the Democrat-controlled Congress. They’re the ones who cut off the funding, right?
But my question is what does it even matter if what Handfleisch says is true about them calling the cops a couple of days later? Even if ACORN called the cops a couple of days after they figured out they were being punked, does that excuse their actions? It would seem to me that there is at the very least an appearance of malfeasance, so an investigation is warranted. If ACORN was a privately funded entity that did not claim non-profit status, I would say it’s all unnecessary since they wouldn’t be taking and spending taxpayer money. But if Obama really wants to follow through on his promises of transparency in regards to government spending, he should be the first to call for a review. If the issue Handfleisch has is that Congress cut off some of their funding before an investigation was completed, I’d say go his beef is with the Democrat-controlled Congress. They’re the ones who cut off the funding, right?
| jmi256 wrote: |
| Fair warning: I haven't been following this story closely, but have just seen some headlines and high-level reporting. So I don't know all the details. |
Then scroll up, read the posts and make an informed reply instead of a knee-jerk one. It's really got nothing to do with one police report; there is a lot more to the issue than than.
| jmi256 wrote: |
| Fair warning: I haven't been following this story closely, but have just seen some headlines and high-level reporting. So I don't know all the details.
But my question is what does it even matter if what Handfleisch says is true about them calling the cops a couple of days later? Even if ACORN called the cops a couple of days after they figured out they were being punked, does that excuse their actions? It would seem to me that there is at the very least an appearance of malfeasance, so an investigation is warranted. If ACORN was a privately funded entity that did not claim non-profit status, I would say it’s all unnecessary since they wouldn’t be taking and spending taxpayer money. But if Obama really wants to follow through on his promises of transparency in regards to government spending, he should be the first to call for a review. If the issue Handfleisch has is that Congress cut off some of their funding before an investigation was completed, I’d say go his beef is with the Democrat-controlled Congress. They’re the ones who cut off the funding, right? |
Well yeah, but he's PO'd because this left leaning organization is getting exposed so he
wants to try to point the finger at the people exposing them. If there is nothing too it
and it is just a 'witch hunt' Acorn will be cleared, and no reason to cry about it...
I love it, the IRS, the Justice Department, and more than a dozen state authorities
as well as our national congress have been 'duped' by this 'vast right wing conspiracy'
because they are cutting ties or investigating Acorn. Talk about people claiming false
moon landings when the facts point otherwise.....
Oh yeah, posting links to videos that Acorn THEMSELVES made? Right, that's unbiased and
I am sure EVERYONE will believe what she has to say. Now lets go back to complaining about
how Fox is so biased......
Handfleisch, if everyone is investigating ACORN how innocent can they be? And how loyal are you to Obama as the message is very clear. The Democrats are dumping ACORN, big time.
I'm totally perplexed by the following, but it also makes it completely understandable why you are so taken with ACORN (but obviously still have to catch up with Obama):
1. An organization that is responsible for voter registration at the same time endorsed Obama's run for presidency in 2008. Wow! How and why was that allowed to happen?
2. Who cares whether they happen to be from the right-wing, the blue-wing or the pink-wing, but they proved their point. It's all on a video tape. How is it possible that those who are under investigation get to sue those who collected the evidence of their wrong doing? What is this leading to, are they hoping to get that evidence thrown out? And then what? All of what is below will just magically be erased? And where will they get the money to pay their legal fees?
The following facts count for me:
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Community_Organizations_for_Reform_Now
To me it is obvious the Democrats have decided to distance themselves from ACORN for good political reasons.
It's a pity though, as it would appear that ACORN started off with very good intentions and was responsible for some excellent work. It just went horribly wrong, and LONG before the pink-wing got their evidence on video tape.
I'm totally perplexed by the following, but it also makes it completely understandable why you are so taken with ACORN (but obviously still have to catch up with Obama):
1. An organization that is responsible for voter registration at the same time endorsed Obama's run for presidency in 2008. Wow! How and why was that allowed to happen?
2. Who cares whether they happen to be from the right-wing, the blue-wing or the pink-wing, but they proved their point. It's all on a video tape. How is it possible that those who are under investigation get to sue those who collected the evidence of their wrong doing? What is this leading to, are they hoping to get that evidence thrown out? And then what? All of what is below will just magically be erased? And where will they get the money to pay their legal fees?
The following facts count for me:
| Quote: |
| 1. ACORN's partnership in the 2010 United States Census was terminated.
2. The United States House and Senate voted to exclude ACORN from federal funding. 3. The New York Attorney General announced an investigation to ensure that state grants given to ACORN were properly spent. 4. The New York City Council suspended all ACORN grants while Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes conducted an investigation. 5. On September 23, the Internal Revenue Service removed ACORN from its volunteer tax-assistance program. 6. On September 28, Bank of America suspended financing ACORN Housing. |
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Community_Organizations_for_Reform_Now
To me it is obvious the Democrats have decided to distance themselves from ACORN for good political reasons.
It's a pity though, as it would appear that ACORN started off with very good intentions and was responsible for some excellent work. It just went horribly wrong, and LONG before the pink-wing got their evidence on video tape.
| Alaskacameradude wrote: | ||
Well yeah, but he's PO'd because this left leaning organization is getting exposed so he wants to try to point the finger at the people exposing them. If there is nothing too it and it is just a 'witch hunt' Acorn will be cleared, and no reason to cry about it... I love it, the IRS, the Justice Department, and more than a dozen state authorities as well as our national congress have been 'duped' by this 'vast right wing conspiracy' because they are cutting ties or investigating Acorn. Talk about people claiming false moon landings when the facts point otherwise..... Oh yeah, posting links to videos that Acorn THEMSELVES made? Right, that's unbiased and I am sure EVERYONE will believe what she has to say. Now lets go back to complaining about how Fox is so biased...... |
LOL. Your argument has been obliterated, like Jmi's "left wing media" conspiracy argument was, you cannot successfully answer a single one of my points, and you just keep repeating refuted claims-- and I am the one who is PO'd?
I linked to the video of the ACORN worker exercising her freedom of speech in the only way she can because your heroes at FOXaganda would never have her on to tell her side of the story. I made no claims about it as a journalistic report. But there is a police report to back up her side of the story, and the fact that the filmmakers lied about that.
Wouldn't it be easier to say that you were wrong and move on? Then you'd look like a reasonable debater, and not a tool for right wing lies.
| deanhills wrote: |
| Handfleisch, if everyone is investigating ACORN how innocent can they be? |
You should find some way to learn about the basic principles of democracy. This statement is directly from a Stalinesque mindset. They are being charged so they must be guilty? Jeez.
Do you want to know what the most corrupt organizations are, in terms of their heavy fines for actual offenses, and the millions and millions of dollars of tax dollars they receive? Military corporations. I don't see any heightened attention about that in the media or Congress. People basically get upset about what they are told to be upset about.
| handfleisch wrote: | ||
You should find some way to learn about the basic principles of democracy. This statement is directly from a Stalinesque mindset. They are being charged so they must be guilty? Jeez. |
Why then did ALL of the below happen at the same time, why not just one, and have you noted at the high level all of it was decided? If what you are saying were true, and that they are being accused only, and are still to be proved innocent, does the US have such an undemocratic society that all of the below decisions would have happened at the same time? It is common sense that ACORN would have already been under investigation LONG before the video taping happened. It was just the incident that put everything over the top, and I doubt any proof of anything will reverse the course of actions.
| Quote: |
| 1. ACORN's partnership in the 2010 United States Census was terminated.
2. The United States House and Senate voted to exclude ACORN from federal funding. 3. The New York Attorney General announced an investigation to ensure that state grants given to ACORN were properly spent. 4. The New York City Council suspended all ACORN grants while Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes conducted an investigation. 5. On September 23, the Internal Revenue Service removed ACORN from its volunteer tax-assistance program. 6. On September 28, Bank of America suspended financing ACORN Housing. |
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Community_Organizations_for_Reform_Now
A funny thing happened on the way to the witchhunt... when Congress passed the anti-ACORN bill, they opened the door to defunding every corrupt military corporation. I will start a separate thread on that, but here is the relevant point:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/radio/2009/09/23/grayson/
| Quote: |
|
Congress is attempting to accomplish an unconstitutional act: singling out and punishing ACORN, which is clearly a "bill of attainder" that the Constitution explicitly prohibits -- i.e., an act aimed at punishing a single party without a trial. The only way to overcome that problem is by pretending that the de-funding of ACORN is really about a general policy judgment (that no corrupt organizations should receive federal funding). But the broader they make the law in order to avoid the Constitutional problem, the more it encompasses the large corrupt corporations that own the Congress (and whom they obviously don't want to de-fund). The narrower they make it in order to include only ACORN, the more blatantly unconstitutional it is. Now that they have embraced this general principle that no corrupt organizations should receive federal funding, how is anyone going to justify applying that only to ACORN while continuing to fund the corporations whose fraud and corruption is vastly greater (not to mention established by actual courts of law)? - |
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/radio/2009/09/23/grayson/
| handfleisch wrote: |
| ... when Congress passed the anti-ACORN bill, they opened the door to defunding every corrupt military corporation. |
Would it not, in fact open the door to every corrupt government-affiliated corporation, not just military?
Why the focus on military corporations?
| ocalhoun wrote: | ||
Would it not, in fact open the door to every corrupt government-affiliated corporation, not just military? Why the focus on military corporations? |
| ocalhoun wrote: | ||
Would it not, in fact open the door to every corrupt government-affiliated corporation, not just military? Why the focus on military corporations? |
Yes, it opens the door to defunding all corrupt federal contractors. It just so happens that military corporations make up the biggest federal contractors among those guilty of corruption and abuse. See separate thread on this.
| handfleisch wrote: |
| It just so happens that military corporations make up the biggest federal contractors among those guilty of corruption and abuse. See separate thread on this. |
Literature:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Political_Reform/CaseStudyCorruption_HTOTG.html
http://www.americanchinesemedicineassociation.org/Americans%20Fed%20up%20with%20Drug%20Industry%20Influence%20and%20FDA%20Corruption.htm
http://www.laleva.cc/supplements/pharmaceutical_racket.html
| deanhills wrote: |
| Legal drugs are as bad as illegal ones, and the lobbying that accompanies it makes it probably one of the greatest sources of corruption in the world.
|
And they spend more effort on lobbying than any other special interest. (I.E. There are more drug company lobbyists in Washington than any other kind of lobbyist. More than there are congressmen.)
They certainly had Bush under their control.
I think handfleisch is only interested in pursuing corporations under government contract right now though. While the drug companies are constantly trading campaign funds for special favors, they aren't officially employed by the US government.
| ocalhoun wrote: |
| I think handfleisch is only interested in pursuing corporations under government contract right now though. While the drug companies are constantly trading campaign funds for special favors, they aren't officially employed by the US government. |
Watch this video from the Congress floor. The incomparable Dem Alan Grayson schools Republicans on why the ACORN witch hunt is unconstitutional. http://www.youtube.com/v/AKz5ZHM8kFM
| handfleisch wrote: |
| Watch this video from the Congress floor. The incomparable Dem Alan Grayson schools Republicans on why the ACORN witch hunt is unconstitutional. http://www.youtube.com/v/AKz5ZHM8kFM |
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