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The moon moving too close to the Earth?....





OraShadow
Okay, I will say I have no clue what the hell this is, or what its called. I heard that when the moon gets to close to the Earth, the Earth will start "Acting Up".Huge waves would be come common, Winter could last for years, and Electronic devices will be disturbed? I don't really know what this is all about, but I would like someone to explain this for me? Will this even ever happen? And is there a book or Movie about this?(By the way, I'm sorry if this has been talked about already, but I really would like to learn about this. Wink
truespeed
I heard on TV the other week that the moon is in fact moving away from the earth,and will continue to do so,but only about an inch per year,so i imagine it would take billions of years to have an impactt,and probably by then the sun will have died anyway.
Bluedoll
Did see the movie too but that movie was complete fiction. However, the moon does have a great effect on our oceans, not sure about gravity though as it was depicted in that movie. If the moon actually collided with the planet earth it would be disastrous. The chances of that happening are extremely remote.

Orbits are dependent on speed, never are completely circular but elliptical in nature. Objects tend to speed up when ‘falling’ into another body and slow down as gravitational attraction becomes less. As they speed up they move farther away and closer as they slow down.

Do not expect to see massive changes in orbits because I think it might be safe to say a balance has been achieved a long time ago and change if any will be gradual over long periods of time. The only things that are going to change orbits drastically are other largest bodies coming into our solar system or some massive collapse of a star close to us. This is possible however that too is held in check by universal forces.

Although prediction itself is fickle it would be safe to say that the old planet (old in human measure) called earth will continue to be around for a long time yet. Mankind on the other hand is another story. This is dependant on factors like, willingness to change, war, sickness and a range of other human issues.
Bikerman
The moon is indeed 'moving away' from the earth. I think the current figure is around 4cm a year.
We can thank Charles Darwin for an understanding of why this is (well, actually we can thank his son George).
Quote:
All mass exerts a gravitational force, and the tidal bulges on the Earth exert a gravitational pull on the Moon. Because the Earth rotates faster (once every 24 hours) than the Moon orbits (once every 27.3 days) the bulge tries to "speed up" the Moon, and pull it ahead in its orbit. The Moon is also pulling back on the tidal bulge of the Earth, slowing the Earth's rotation. Tidal friction, caused by the movement of the tidal bulge around the Earth, takes energy out of the Earth and puts it into the Moon's orbit, making the Moon's orbit bigger (but, a bit pardoxically, the Moon actually moves slower!).

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=124
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
The moon is indeed 'moving away' from the earth. I think the current figure is around 4cm a year.
We can thank Charles Darwin for an understanding of why this is (well, actually we can thank his son George).
Quote:
All mass exerts a gravitational force, and the tidal bulges on the Earth exert a gravitational pull on the Moon. Because the Earth rotates faster (once every 24 hours) than the Moon orbits (once every 27.3 days) the bulge tries to "speed up" the Moon, and pull it ahead in its orbit. The Moon is also pulling back on the tidal bulge of the Earth, slowing the Earth's rotation. Tidal friction, caused by the movement of the tidal bulge around the Earth, takes energy out of the Earth and puts it into the Moon's orbit, making the Moon's orbit bigger (but, a bit pardoxically, the Moon actually moves slower!).

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=124

Ah! Of course. I had known that the moon slows the Earth's rotation, but I had never thought about where that energy was going! It's speeding up the Moon...

But the effect of this is limited, yes?
The farther the moon gets, the less it will be affected. So, the acceleration of the Moon away from Earth, plotted on a graph against time, would be a curve, gradually moving towards zero, but never reaching zero. So, the distance, graphed, would also be a curve. Though the distance would always be growing, there must be a theoretical limit to how far away it can get (the limit of the curve). Right?
Hm... if you follow the graph in the other direction, and had a good idea of the closest the Moon could possibly be to the Earth and still orbit... By finding the time point on the graph where it was at that distance, you could give a maximum amount of time the Moon had been orbiting Earth.
OraShadow
Angel Thanks for the Website, it helps.
chatrack
The effect of this will be shown in the climate. The high tide and low tide will be strongly affected.
ocalhoun
chatrack wrote:
The effect of this will be shown in the climate.

Rolling Eyes Greenies.
Quote:
The high tide and low tide will be strongly affected.

No, no it won't.
Nothing will be strongly affected by this because it is extremely slow, and we won't see any change, because this has been happening ever since the moon started orbiting the Earth.
Baka_Desu
So if the moon keeps moving away does it mean our waves will become smaller? Or will it just be the same as now because of Global Warming?
ocalhoun
Baka_Desu wrote:
So if the moon keeps moving away does it mean our waves will become smaller?

Yes, the waves will be smaller. They'll be noticeably smaller in, say, 100 million years, by that time the Earth will probably have gone through several warm-ups and ice ages.
tukun2009manit
OraShadow wrote:
Okay, I will say I have no clue what the hell this is, or what its called. I heard that when the moon gets to close to the Earth, the Earth will start "Acting Up".Huge waves would be come common, Winter could last for years, and Electronic devices will be disturbed? I don't really know what this is all about, but I would like someone to explain this for me? Will this even ever happen? And is there a book or Movie about this?(By the way, I'm sorry if this has been talked about already, but I really would like to learn about this. Wink


moon is not moving close it is going far and this will effect the climate because that time the earth will loose it axis of rotation and rotate randomly so days and night hours will effect and so as the climatic conditions
ocalhoun
tukun2009manit wrote:
because that time the earth will loose it axis of rotation and rotate randomly so days and night hours will effect and so as the climatic conditions

Question

The Earth's axis of rotation is not dependent upon the moon.

Other moonless planets in our solar system don't rotate 'randomly'.
some1whodidtheirhomework
I'm sorry but this will never happen in the near future as the moon is moving about 2" (2inches or 5cm) a year away from earth and in within a million years the moon is going to catapult itself and collide with the sun or jupiter.
jwellsy
This reminds me of the bogus email that goes around about Mars coming close to the earth.
http://www.snopes.com/science/astronomy/brightmars.asp
ocalhoun
some1whodidtheirhomework wrote:
I'm sorry but this will never happen in the near future as the moon is moving about 2" (2inches or 5cm) a year away from earth and in within a million years the moon is going to catapult itself and collide with the sun or jupiter.

Within a million years, huh?
*calculator time*
At the rate you gave, the moon would move 50 kilometers in 1 million years.
That's roughly the distance from England to Ireland... In a million years.

Now, the moon is around 360,000 kilometers away right now.
So, every million years the moon gets 0.000138% further away...
It would take 10 billion years for it to get 1% further away.
(And, in case you forgot, the sun is predicted to go into the red giant phase in 5 billion years, so by the time the moon gets .5% further away, the sun will explode and destroy both Earth and moon, making it a rather academic question.)
pscompanies
jwellsy wrote:
This reminds me of the bogus email that goes around about Mars coming close to the earth.
http://www.snopes.com/science/astronomy/brightmars.asp


Wow I hadn't seen that one before.
D'Artagnan
pscompanies wrote:
jwellsy wrote:
This reminds me of the bogus email that goes around about Mars coming close to the earth.
http://www.snopes.com/science/astronomy/brightmars.asp


Wow I hadn't seen that one before.


god i've seen that a lot, i don't know how people believe that? i mean it's too much naivety! how a planet would get so close to earth that it would look like the full moon in ONE night?
if that ever happened we would be screwed!
Flakky
The moon affects the Earths gravity a tiny bit so if it got close we would indeed have more influence by the tides. I don't know what other effects this would cause.

The earth is affected by many forces which forms it's orbit around the sun. Because there are so many factors we might see that all factors add up and a rare case of nearby-moon is present. It's probably nothing as it would be the same as 60.000 years ago and earth survived it that time as well.
rogue_skydragon
ocalhoun wrote:

Within a million years, huh?
*calculator time*
At the rate you gave, the moon would move 50 kilometers in 1 million years.
That's roughly the distance from England to Ireland... In a million years.

Now, the moon is around 360,000 kilometers away right now.
So, every million years the moon gets 0.000138% further away...
It would take 10 billion years for it to get 1% further away.
(And, in case you forgot, the sun is predicted to go into the red giant phase in 5 billion years, so by the time the moon gets .5% further away, the sun will explode and destroy both Earth and moon, making it a rather academic question.)


Well said, ocalhoun. Now this begs the question: Will the human race even be around by the time the moon sling-shots away or the sun engulfs the Earth? Human beings have only been around about 100,000 years and it already seems as if we're on the path to self-destruction.
pirate
the actual process of the moon moving it's closest to the moon is called - luna paradigm - but i dont believe there are any side effects to it doing so.
ocalhoun
rogue_skydragon wrote:

Well said, ocalhoun. Now this begs the question: Will the human race even be around by the time the moon sling-shots away or the sun engulfs the Earth? Human beings have only been around about 100,000 years and it already seems as if we're on the path to self-destruction.

Humans will almost certainly either be extinct or evolved into something else entirely by that time.
Go the same amount of time in the past, and you'll be lucky to find a few single-cell organisms... So who can tell what the future holds the same distance into the future?
metalfreek
Moon was closer to earth earlier on but now it is moving away from earth.
brandon02852
It is moving away very slowly.

With each step is moves back, the effect its gravity has on Earth is lessened. This means things such as smaller tides. Marine life will change.

This will take millions of years, however.
donoob88
when i was a kid, we use to have a book, about science, math, myths, inventions, etc. it is very enjoyable, it meant for kids. anyway it's not about the book, but one of that book i saw there the picture of earth, in the area between Asia and America, we can saw there a huge vacant, open area. That book they illustrate how the moon came out from the earth, I didn't remember well if that's only a myth or fact since i was only a kid that time. Well, it is a picture from nothing on earth then something coming out like a huge mountain and slowly coming out until it is finally came out and moved away from earth and that's it, it's the moon, lols.. it's like woman that labor a child Razz
kelseymh
donoob88 wrote:
when i was a kid, we use to have a book, about science, math, myths, inventions, etc. it is very enjoyable, it meant for kids. anyway it's not about the book, but one of that book i saw there the picture of earth, in the area between Asia and America, we can saw there a huge vacant, open area. That book they illustrate how the moon came out from the earth, I didn't remember well if that's only a myth or fact since i was only a kid that time. Well, it is a picture from nothing on earth then something coming out like a huge mountain and slowly coming out until it is finally came out and moved away from earth and that's it, it's the moon, lols.. it's like woman that labor a child Razz


Myth. The area between Asia and America is called the Pacific Ocean. [s]It has only existed for about 165 million years[/s] (as determined conclusively by radiometric dating of rocks dredged from the bottom).

That statement was not correct. I clarify the situation below.

    The "ocean floor" (oceanic crust) of the Pacific plate ranges in age from 0 to ~150 million years: the oldest rock is located at the deep marginal trenches, where it is being subducted, and the youngest at the mid-ocean ridges (notably the East Pacific Rise), where it is forming from magmatic intrusions right now.

    The Pacific plate itself formed in the late Proterozoic Eon, as part of the breakup of the supercontinent Rodinia (see, e.g. http://sp.lyellcollection.org/content/335/1/189.abstract) about 750 million years ago.

    The Pacific Ocean basin has nothing to do with the formation of the Moon, except in the imaginations of storytellers ignorant of geology.


The best model for lunar formation involves a collision between the early Earth (about 30 million years after the solar system formed) and a body about the size of Mars. The combined system would have become mostly molten, with most of it condensing back to the current Earth, and vaporized rock and dust surrounding it condensing into the Moon.
kelseymh
kelseymh wrote:
The "ocean floor" (oceanic crust) of the Pacific plate ranges in age from 0 to ~150 million years: the oldest rock is located at the deep marginal trenches, where it is being subducted, and the youngest at the mid-ocean ridges (notably the East Pacific Rise), where it is forming from magmatic intrusions right now.


Wikipedia has a great picture showing the age of nearly all oceanic crust worldwide, reproduced below.

shopperpk
nice post and commenting going on in this post . very informative one. I like to study about climate changes, space and stars.
athomas
ocalhoun wrote:

(And, in case you forgot, the sun is predicted to go into the red giant phase in 5 billion years, so by the time the moon gets .5% further away, the sun will explode and destroy both Earth and moon, making it a rather academic question.)


I was under the impression that the sun no longer possess the potential to explode or go supernova. I believe it is expected to slowly expand and then collapse into a white dwarf. This process will surely emit some force that will irradiate the surface of earth and the moon but isn't likely to destroy them.
ocalhoun
athomas wrote:

I was under the impression that the sun no longer possess the potential to explode or go supernova. I believe it is expected to slowly expand and then collapse into a white dwarf. This process will surely emit some force that will irradiate the surface of earth and the moon but isn't likely to destroy them.

Yes... except at the end of its 'slowly expand' phase, the Earth's current orbit would be near (or even within) the surface of the sun.

It would be cooler at that point, but by no means cool enough to allow life that close... Probably not even cool enough to allow condensed solid matter that close.

...And for more fun, being so close to the sun's gasses will cause increased friction, slowing down the Earth's orbit... which will cause it to fall, spiraling deeper into the sun.

So, the Earth (and the moon with it) are not likely to survive the sun's red giant phase.
sanscha
Not only is the moon moving away from the earth, as others have already pointed out. The rate at which it moves away from the earth is increasing!

This is a basic principle of astrophysics. As two objects move away from each other, they will start moving away from each other at a faster rate.
ocalhoun
sanscha wrote:

This is a basic principle of astrophysics. As two objects move away from each other, they will start moving away from each other at a faster rate.

Odd... Your basic principle of astrophysics seems contradictory to the laws of gravity...
As the two move apart, they should still be slowing down, since gravity is pulling them towards each other. The rate of deceleration will continually decrease as they move apart yes, but that just means they'll be slowing down more slowly... They'll never begin to speed up away from each other, unless you introduce some third object exerting a force on them.

Now, if one of the objects was moving under power, like a rocket, that would be true. Its speed would increase the further it got from the gravitational pull... but for two inert objects, they'll always be accelerating towards each other (which, when the direction of motion is away from each other, means slowing down: when the direction of motion and direction of acceleration are opposite, it slows down, when they're the same, it speeds up).
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