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Teabaggers/townhall rightwingers: insane or just stupid?





handfleisch
"Billionaires for Wealthcare" is a group that is attending teabagging parties and town halls to spoof the anti-healthcare crowd. But it seems the teabaggers don't understand when they're being mocked.

http://billionairesforwealthcare.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me3VnCficDA

And does anyone still claim that these teabaggers are sane? In this video, a majority of the signs are loony. "Deport Obama", "Death Wish for Patients", "Kill the Bill before it Kills Us", "Save our republic", "We need care not a death panel" "Obama care, it's to die for" and lots of use of the word "Marxist".
jmi256
handfleisch wrote:
"Billionaires for Wealthcare" is a group that is attending teabagging parties and town halls to spoof the anti-healthcare crowd. But it seems the teabaggers don't understand when they're being mocked.

http://billionairesforwealthcare.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me3VnCficDA

And does anyone still claim that these teabaggers are sane? In this video, a majority of the signs are loony. "Deport Obama", "Death Wish for Patients", "Kill the Bill before it Kills Us", "Save our republic", "We need care not a death panel" "Obama care, it's to die for" and lots of use of the word "Marxist".



handfleisch
So, jmi256, which of these signs is yours? (or all of them?)

"Deport Obama", "Death Wish for Patients", "Kill the Bill before it Kills Us", "Save our republic", "We need care not a death panel" "Obama care, it's to die for"
ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:
"Save our republic"

Personally, I pick this one.

Save it from who? The ever-growing government.
handfleisch
It seems like there is a backlash among sane conservatives against the tea party extremists who are disrupting town halls and getting irate that the president would address schoolchildren. I wonder if FOX news momentarily interrupt their 24/7 Obama bashing for this...
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/07/laura.bush/index.html
Quote:
Laura Bush praises Obama, bemoans excessive partisanship

PARIS, France (CNN) -- Former first lady Laura Bush praised the performance of her husband's successor Monday, breaking with many Republicans in telling CNN that she thinks President Obama is doing a good job under tough circumstances.
ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:
It seems like there is a backlash among sane conservatives against the tea party extremists who are disrupting town halls and getting irate that the president would address schoolchildren. I wonder if FOX news momentarily interrupt their 24/7 Obama bashing for this...
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/07/laura.bush/index.html
Quote:
Laura Bush praises Obama, bemoans excessive partisanship

PARIS, France (CNN) -- Former first lady Laura Bush praised the performance of her husband's successor Monday, breaking with many Republicans in telling CNN that she thinks President Obama is doing a good job under tough circumstances.

... I wouldn't really call one person's comment a 'backlash'...

As of now, I'm neutral about his speech to school children. My opinion of it will hinge upon what he says, and what he tries to get the kids to do. If he tries to indoctrinate them with partisan opinions, or in any way tries to turn them against their parents, then it is a very despicable act. If he doesn't, then I probably won't have any problem with it.
handfleisch
ocalhoun wrote:

As of now, I'm neutral about his speech to school children. My opinion of it will hinge upon what he says, and what he tries to get the kids to do. If he tries to indoctrinate them with partisan opinions, or in any way tries to turn them against their parents, then it is a very despicable act. If he doesn't, then I probably won't have any problem with it.

Indoctrinate?
Turn them against their parents?
Despicable? Obama is going to do something despicable on a TV broadcast to children?
Well, you also think he might be a terrorist sympathizer, as I recall.
Nothing more to do but quote Barney Frank:
Bikerman
ocalhoun wrote:
As of now, I'm neutral about his speech to school children. My opinion of it will hinge upon what he says, and what he tries to get the kids to do. If he tries to indoctrinate them with partisan opinions, or in any way tries to turn them against their parents, then it is a very despicable act. If he doesn't, then I probably won't have any problem with it.
That strikes me as a sensible stance.
Did you read the speech? I presume you agree with me that it presents absolutely no issues? I liked it. It was perhaps a touch long (depending on the age of the audience), but I can say, as a teacher, that I would have been very happy to deliver it (and even more happy to think I could have written it).
handfleisch
ocalhoun wrote:
If he tries to indoctrinate them with partisan opinions, or in any way tries to turn them against their parents, then it is a very despicable act.


Then you must think Reagan was despicable when he addressed schoolkids and indoctrinated them with his low-tax free-market extremist mantra. He even exhorted them about line-item vetoes! Despicable, according to you.
Quote:
But America's world leadership goes well beyond the tide toward democracy. We also find that more countries than ever before are following America's revolutionary economic message of free enterprise, low taxes and open world trade. These days whenever I see foreign leaders they tell me about their plans for reducing taxes and other economic reforms that they're using, copying what we've done in this country. I wonder if they realize that this vision of economic freedom, the freedom to work, to create, to produce, to own, and use property without the interference of the state, was central to the American revolution.

http://blog.buzzflash.com/analysis/899
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
As of now, I'm neutral about his speech to school children. My opinion of it will hinge upon what he says, and what he tries to get the kids to do. If he tries to indoctrinate them with partisan opinions, or in any way tries to turn them against their parents, then it is a very despicable act. If he doesn't, then I probably won't have any problem with it.
That strikes me as a sensible stance.
Did you read the speech? I presume you agree with me that it presents absolutely no issues? I liked it. It was perhaps a touch long (depending on the age of the audience), but I can say, as a teacher, that I would have been very happy to deliver it (and even more happy to think I could have written it).

After reading it, I find no major issues, and in fact somewhat agree with the message.
I laughed a little when he said America's schools were the best in the world, and I'd like to point out the inaccuracy of saying that education is mandatory for being successful, but the intent of the speech was agreeable.
He was trying to convince the kids to improve themselves, not trying to use them as tools, so I approve.

handfleisch wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
If he tries to indoctrinate them with partisan opinions, or in any way tries to turn them against their parents, then it is a very despicable act.


Then you must think Reagan was despicable when he addressed schoolkids and indoctrinated them with his low-tax free-market extremist mantra. He even exhorted them about line-item vetoes! Despicable, according to you.

Yes, it is despicable. Does that surprise you?
I'm a Libertarian, not a Republican.

Besides that, I (unlike some people) don't ignore the faults of a person just because I happen to agree with him.
handfleisch
Teabaggers strike again


OK, tea party apologists, please watch this tea bagger woman at the Las Vegas Tea Party speak against Obama's health plan. Seems reasonable, if a bit inarticulate, right? An example of a regular tea partier with legitimate concerns, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcRr5xA-K80

Now watch her here, later the same evening, yelling "Heil Hitler" to an Israeili because he is in favor of health care reform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVS4Zgjm8HE

Tea Parties = the lunatic fringe
ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:

Tea Parties = the lunatic fringe

For the last time, will you please address the issues being protested, instead of finding fault with who is participating in the protest?
handfleisch
ocalhoun wrote:
handfleisch wrote:

Tea Parties = the lunatic fringe

For the last time, will you please address the issues being protested, instead of finding fault with who is participating in the protest?

Who is participating in the Tea Parties and what they are saying is the issue.

Or if you like, here are the issues raised at the Tea Parties, in no particular order:
Is Obama a Communist/Fascist Hitler-Stalin,
is he Muslim,
is he Satan,
is Obama's health care reform a plan to murder old people,
will illegal aliens be eligible for the plan (explicitly not, but that doesn't count with a Tea Bagger),
should we celebrate a man's death and use it in our crusade against health care reform (Yes, according to the tea baggers),
should we support the congressman who yelled "You Lie" during a formal presidential speech (another tea bagger 'yes'),
and should we maintain that he was factually correct even though he was 100% wrong (Yes again),

So, go ahead and address these issues, Ocalhoun, since you keep an open mind about such things.
ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:

Or if you like, here are the issues raised at the Tea Parties, in no particular order:
Is Obama a Communist/Fascist Hitler-Stalin,

He has shown some socialist tendencies...
A government-owned auto company?
Socialized health care?
handfleisch wrote:

is he Muslim,

Quote:

"Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian stepfather."

Apparently, he has had some Muslim influence when growing up, but never was a practicing Muslim himself. Why should that claim be derogatory anyway?
handfleisch wrote:

is he Satan,

Obviously not! If he was Satan, he would have a much easier time getting his legislation passed.
handfleisch wrote:

is Obama's health care reform a plan to murder old people,

Exaggerated, but has some basis in truth. There would be decisions made about what care to give very elderly patients who probably won't live much longer anyway. Obama himself publicly mused about if it was worthwhile to give additional care to his grandmother.
handfleisch wrote:

will illegal aliens be eligible for the plan (explicitly not, but that doesn't count with a Tea Bagger),

It may explicitly state not, but some people think that the protections in place to keep illegal immigrants from applying and getting benefits from it are too weak.
handfleisch wrote:

should we celebrate a man's death and use it in our crusade against health care reform (Yes, according to the tea baggers),

Both sides are trying to use that death. If you celebrate it or mourn it should depend entirely upon how you felt about the guy.
handfleisch wrote:

should we support the congressman who yelled "You Lie" during a formal presidential speech (another tea bagger 'yes'),

If you agree with him, he's a hero for having the courage to say it. Personally, I'd like to see politicians get called out for blatant lies more often. Very rude, yes, but at least he got his message out. Better to have a rude, but accountable government, than to have one where people keep quiet about problems for the sake of politeness.
handfleisch wrote:

and should we maintain that he was factually correct even though he was 100% wrong (Yes again),

See above, about some people's concerns about the protections against illegal immigrants getting benefits.
handfleisch wrote:


At least one of those four pictures couldn't have been from a tea party protest, because it's protesting something that wasn't an issue at the time of the tea parties. (And, of course, it mentions the death of someone who was alive at the time of the tea parties...)
You need to distinguish between tea party protesters and town hall protesters. There may be some people who are both, but they are distinctly different groups, with different agendas.
jwellsy
That's 1.7 million lunatic fringe in DC according to University of Illinois arial survey. And that doesn't even count the thousands of simultanious rallies that occured across the country on 9-12.

Barney Frank is your main stream role model? WOW! We do need to pray for you.
handfleisch
jwellsy wrote:
That's 1.7 million lunatic fringe in DC according to University of Illinois arial survey. And that doesn't even count the thousands of simultanious rallies that occured across the country on 9-12..

Another lie. That's like 4 in a row for you. The original lie came from the main lobbyist / Republican party affiliated organizer of the Tea Parties / 912er things, Freedomworks. They blatantly lied in claiming ABC news said 1.5 million; in fact ABC news called them out on the lie:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-size-estimate-falsely-attributed-abc-news/story?id=8558055
Quote:


ABC News Was Misquoted on Crowd Size
ABC News Reported D.C. Rally Size in Tens of Thousands, Not 1M to 1.5M as Activist Said.
Sept. 13, 2009

Conservative activists, who organized a march on the U.S. Capitol today in protest of the Obama administration's health care agenda and government spending, erroneously attributed reports on the size of the crowds to ABC News.
Photo: Thousands march to US Capitol to protest government spending, Obama's health care plan
A crowd of people, some carrying signs, are shown during a rally at Freedom Plaza in Washington on... Expand
A crowd of people, some carrying signs, are shown during a rally at Freedom Plaza in Washington on Saturday, Sept. 12, 2009. Thousands of protesters have packed streets in the nation's capital to protest what they consider the federal government's out-of-control spending. Collapse
(Jose Luis Magana/AP Photo)

Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, the group that organized the event, said on stage at the rally Saturday that ABC News was reporting that 1 million to 1.5 million people were in attendance.

At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as "tens of thousands."


Then the lie was compounded when some 912er blog ran an aerial photo showing a massive crowd, but the photo was found to be several years old. These lies make the Tea Partiers/912ers look like brainless sheep.

On edit, Now might be a good time for a reality check to the hysteria:

Quote:
10 Lessons for Tea Baggers:

1. President Obama Cut Your Taxes
2. The Stimulus is Working
3. First Ronald Reagan Tripled the National Debt...
4. ...Then George W. Bush Doubled It Again
5. Republican States Have the Worst Health Care
6. Medicare is a Government Program
7. Barack Obama is Not a Muslim
8. Barack Obama was Born in the United States
9. 70,000 Does Not Equal 2,000,000
10. The Economy Almost Always Does Better Under Democrats


Details at http://crooksandliars.com/node/31244
jwellsy
"You Lie, you Lie, you lie" You sound like a racist. Are you a racist?
ocalhoun
jwellsy wrote:
"You Lie, you Lie, you lie" You sound like a racist. Are you a racist?

WHAT?
That's quite an odd jump of reasoning there...
Saying things like that makes arguing about things I agree with you on difficult.
Yes, Handfleisch seems to be reciting 'you lie' a lot lately (probably a good sign, hm?), but connecting that with racism just makes 'our side' seem retarded. Please don't.

handfleisch wrote:

Quote:
10 Lessons for Tea Baggers:

1. President Obama Cut Your Taxes
2. The Stimulus is Working
3. First Ronald Reagan Tripled the National Debt...
4. ...Then George W. Bush Doubled It Again
5. Republican States Have the Worst Health Care
6. Medicare is a Government Program
7. Barack Obama is Not a Muslim
8. Barack Obama was Born in the United States
9. 70,000 Does Not Equal 2,000,000
10. The Economy Almost Always Does Better Under Democrats


1. He said he will cut middle class taxes, but because of all the spending he's doing, taxes overall must go up dramatically, or the deficit will skyrocket.
2. I thought the 'crisis' was still around? If by working, you mean 'making failed corporations richer in order to artificially preserve dead jobs', then yes it is working.
3. "The Congressional Budget Office has projected that the policies laid out in 0bama's first budget would require an additional $9 trillion in borrowing over the next decade." Either that, or he'll have to tax that $9 trillion from taxpayers.
4. See 3.
5. Republican states are more likely to be rural. In rural areas, salaries are lower and hospitals are further away; this makes skilled doctors want to leave for large cities for better pay, and it means that the residents therefore get lower-quality care, that they have to travel farther to get to.
6. The point of this one is...? I would like it to be a private charity, not a government program.
7. I know. Those who think he is haven't done objective research into it.
8. Yeah. Another one where stupid people are objecting to things for the wrong reasons, because they're not intelligent enough to debate about the right reasons.
9. I wish people on all sides would stop misrepresenting the size of protests and gatherings. It happens WAY too often.
10. Which must be unrelated to this current 'crisis' happening under the watch of a Democratic-majority congress, right?

I do appreciate you mentioning the issues though! Keep it up.
jwellsy
You missed the irony. Claiming "you lie" is a racist statement is one of this weeks National Socialists talking points. They even trotted out Jimmy Carter to help them make that claim. So it's just shocking to hear one of their card carrying union brothers using it profusely while claiming the opposition is racists for using it is so uhm what's the word? Oh yeah, Hyprocritical.
deanhills
jwellsy wrote:
You missed the irony. Claiming "you lie" is a racist statement is one of this weeks National Socialists talking points.
So Wilson's statement then was racist, and had nothing to do with the content of Obama's Healthcare Address? I really thought racism was becoming out of date. Surely the Democrats could come up with more intelligence, such as perhaps that it had not been a lie, with corroborating evidence? Staying with the discussion of the facts would have impressed me much more than proclaiming an outdated accusation of racism. People who claim that it was racist, are doing themselves a disservice as they are creating an image of a victim, rather than "can-do" intelligence.
Ophois
I think Wilson was just being a dick.
It didn't seem racist to me at all. Obstructionist at worst, depending which side of the aisle your sitting on. I also think it was a publicity stunt. He could have opposed Obama without yelling accusations(be they true or not) during a speech. But it got him air time on TV and, much like Kanye West, his outburst overshadowed the event. If you think about it, it was a brilliant move. He didn't have to have a great or even good plan of opposition, but by yelling "YOU LIE", he took a bunch of people off the fence and brought them over to his side. Not to overuse the reference, but Kanye is the most famous person in music this week, without having to win an award or even put out an album or single. Wilson doesn't really have to do anything at this point, he created a rallying cry, and mustered the troops against Obama's policy. He wins.
Nobody is talking about the speech/VMA's without talking about Wilson/Kanye.
handfleisch
\
jwellsy wrote:
You missed the irony. Claiming "you lie" is a racist statement is one of this weeks National Socialists talking points. They even trotted out Jimmy Carter to help them make that claim. So it's just shocking to hear one of their card carrying union brothers using it profusely while claiming the opposition is racists for using it is so uhm what's the word? Oh yeah, Hyprocritical.


I don't think you should use big words like irony. It's like letting preschoolers use big-people scissors. And anyone who says Carter is being used by the Nazis (National Socialists) is childish indeed.

Please keep posting, though. Besides being good for laughs, you're a perfect example of the willful ignorance, proud stupidity and belligerent projection of the screaming minority of neocons>teabaggers>912ers that this thread is about.

ocalhoun wrote:
jwellsy wrote:
"You Lie, you Lie, you lie" You sound like a racist. Are you a racist?

WHAT?
That's quite an odd jump of reasoning there...
Saying things like that makes arguing about things I agree with you on difficult.
Yes, Handfleisch seems to be reciting 'you lie' a lot lately (probably a good sign, hm?), but connecting that with racism just makes 'our side' seem retarded. Please don't.


You put yourself on this side? That side doesn't just seem retarded.

I used the word lie advidedly because they it wasn't spin or bias, it was outright lies.
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