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murder and rape: Bush gov torture scandal





handfleisch
I'm sick of how people make light of the ongoing Bush administration torture scandal by only discussing what they think are the lightest example of the torture techniques. Let's be clear: all of the torture techniques revealed so far are just that, torture -- a morally horrendous practice and serious crime that Americans once considered themselves far above condoning -- and these crimes included rape and murder.

Rape, as in rape with an object, in this case in forced enemas: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/01/national/01gitmo.html?_r=1&th

and murder http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/06/30/accountability/
atul2242
who is the victim - the people tortured or the American public which believed that America was above such crimes?
ocalhoun
And what, exactly, should actually be done about it?
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:
I'm sick of how people make light of the ongoing Bush administration torture scandal by only discussing what they think are the lightest example of the torture techniques.
Who is making light of it? I notice evidence of alleged atrocities in your cited articles, but not evidence of people making light of it. I thought people came out quite heavy in their protests, resulting in some changes that have already been made. The articles you cited protested very strongly too.
handfleisch
ocalhoun wrote:
And what, exactly, should actually be done about it?

Well, since you're a teabagger, why don't you bring it up at the next tea party or town hall meeting? Make a sign that says "Torture: No more rape and murder in my name with my tax dollars"? COme to think of it, why don't all these people who are behaving like raving lunatics about the health plan get a little bit excited about this? Why not call for the immediate prosecution of all those responsible?
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:
Well, since you're a teabagger, why don't you bring it up at the next tea party or town hall meeting? Make a sign that says "Torture: No more rape and murder in my name with my tax dollars"? COme to think of it, why don't all these people who are behaving like raving lunatics about the health plan get a little bit excited about this? Why not call for the immediate prosecution of all those responsible?
Handfleisch, you are making something huge out of a minority of agitators. Completely out of context to the reality. The people who have the most concerns about the Healthcare Bill, and the ones who seriously matter, are the legislators who are sitting on the legislation committee. They are concerned about cost. The United States can't afford another few trillion dollars of debt, as by real definition the United States is bankrupt. Obama announced a bail-out of 1.2-trillion at the beginning of the year, he has shortly got to announce his budget, which he has been delaying for very obvious reasons. Why can't people try and do something for themselves in the meanwhile, such as Massuchusetts has been doing successfully, why are they waiting for hand-outs? I really like your example of Remote Area Clinics, that is something of the American spirit that I have always admired very much. The ability to make plans along "can do" lines. There is obviously a great need for this, and it can be expanded as an interim measure, until the economy is healthy enough to fund Healthcare for all.
handfleisch
deanhills wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
Well, since you're a teabagger, why don't you bring it up at the next tea party or town hall meeting? Make a sign that says "Torture: No more rape and murder in my name with my tax dollars"? COme to think of it, why don't all these people who are behaving like raving lunatics about the health plan get a little bit excited about this? Why not call for the immediate prosecution of all those responsible?
Handfleisch, you are making something huge out of a minority of agitators. Completely out of context to the reality.


I don't think so. I have watched some videos of these tea parties and town hall meetings, and most of the signs were loony. As I have noted on other threads. I have seen these people shouting down a woman in a wheelchair, testifying how grateful she was that her medical bills were paid by gov't health insurance and that she just wants that possibility for everyone. I have seen an interview with an anti-reform woman in Las Vegas who seemed sane; later that same evening, she shouted "Heil Hitler" at an Israeli who was speaking in favor of reform. I am really starting to think that most of these anti-reform protesters are lunatics.
ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
And what, exactly, should actually be done about it?

why don't you [...] Make a sign that says "Torture: No more rape and murder in my name with my tax dollars"?

Because how it's paid for isn't the problem. That would be a 'loony' sign.

Find out if the order was actually given, find out who gave the order, prosecute them, and be done with it. Why is it so complicated?

handfleisch wrote:
I am really starting to think that most of these anti-reform protesters are lunatics.

And the other side is better how?
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:
I don't think so. I have watched some videos of these tea parties and town hall meetings, and most of the signs were loony. As I have noted on other threads. I have seen these people shouting down a woman in a wheelchair, testifying how grateful she was that her medical bills were paid by gov't health insurance and that she just wants that possibility for everyone. I have seen an interview with an anti-reform woman in Las Vegas who seemed sane; later that same evening, she shouted "Heil Hitler" at an Israeli who was speaking in favor of reform. I am really starting to think that most of these anti-reform protesters are lunatics.
I get your point, and I totally agree that there are loonie gatherings. But there are also people who have serious views about why they do not agree with Obama care. You're making the loonie gatherings so big, it completely overshadows the existence of rational Americans who seriously disagree with Obama's proposed healthcare legislation for very rational reasons.
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