Well This is for the religious frihosters and anyone else willing too discuss this.
anyways I was thinking that if god forgives anyone and if anyone truly repents then he can be forgiven and go too heaven.
now let me explain
if someone evil comes face too face with god do you really think he wont repent, I know some will say that you cant trick god and he will truly know but in all honesty who would doubt god if he was sitting right in front of you.....any evil person would personally agree what he did was wrong...so in effect anyone who goes too hell and those who are about are always forgiven.....
so whats the actual point of hell?
Wouldn't that mean that pretty much the only ones who would go to hell are those who thought they were doing the right thing all along (and thereby won't regret it)? I wouldn't really call them evil.
Bannik, for me life is hell. We are sentenced to live as mortal beings, all of whom have some evil in them. Behind every good, there is an offsetting opposite evil, sort of a good description of hell.
As for confronting God, I've never felt OK with making God into an image of humans, i.e. to figure out what He is thinking. For me He is omnipotent and much larger than we can ever dream to fathom. The closest I can get to it is that if there should be some presence associated with God, that I would be completely overwhelmed to the nth degree. I think it would completely redefine everything for me in a way that cannot be described.
| deanhills wrote: |
Bannik, for me life is hell. We are sentenced to live as mortal beings, all of whom have some evil in them. Behind every good, there is an offsetting opposite evil, sort of a good description of hell.
As for confronting God, I've never felt OK with making God into an image of humans, i.e. to figure out what He is thinking. For me He is omnipotent and much larger than we can ever dream to fathom. The closest I can get to it is that if there should be some presence associated with God, that I would be completely overwhelmed to the nth degree. I think it would completely redefine everything for me in a way that cannot be described. |
I completely agree with you, life is hell IMO every single thing i do always turns out to me being hurt in an imaginable way, even though im only 16 ive faced the prospect of suicide many times. So if this isn't hell whats coming must be worse aye?
But back to topic, isn't repent when you tell it to all the people you were 'bad' or 'sinfull' to taht it was wrong? and ask for forgiveness? If so then you can't really repent to only god can you?
And the propect of hell IMO is not an eternal punishment, its an eternal damnation isn't it? Which in my opinion mean a nation of the damned, a nation of people with like minds living together, murders can't murder... there in a world of dead, rapists can't 'rape' lustful people can they? it would just be sex, ect ect, so they just live in peace... | Parkour_Jarrod wrote: |
But back to topic, isn't repent when you tell it to all the people you were 'bad' or 'sinfull' to taht it was wrong? and ask for forgiveness? If so then you can't really repent to only god can you?
And the propect of hell IMO is not an eternal punishment, its an eternal damnation isn't it? Which in my opinion mean a nation of the damned, a nation of people with like minds living together, murders can't murder... there in a world of dead, rapists can't 'rape' lustful people can they? it would just be sex, ect ect, so they just live in peace... |
I don't have the answers Parkour, guess that is why we are here on earth, to try and discover some of the answers, think the closest I've come is to say that "I don't know" and I really don't. One thing I do feel strongly about is that the judgments that are passed are man made ones. We are judging ourselves and to the greatest extent our judgments are based on information that has to do with the past, not our present moments. The forgiveness has to usually start with the person who is looking for forgiveness, i.e. that person has to forgive himself/herself, before the person can ask to be forgiven by whomever he/she thinks he/she has wronged. The latter is also quite challenging as we may be judging ourselves to have done something really bad, when we may have been wrong that we actually did. Like in the courts, one probably needs to be quite clear that you have really wronged someone before you start on the forgiveness route. | Bannik wrote: |
Well This is for the religious frihosters and anyone else willing too discuss this.
anyways I was thinking that if god forgives anyone and if anyone truly repents then he can be forgiven and go too heaven.
now let me explain
if someone evil comes face too face with god do you really think he wont repent, I know some will say that you cant trick god and he will truly know but in all honesty who would doubt god if he was sitting right in front of you.....any evil person would personally agree what he did was wrong...so in effect anyone who goes too hell and those who are about are always forgiven.....
so whats the actual point of hell? |
You can't repent once you are already dead. | coreymanshack wrote: |
| Bannik wrote: | Well This is for the religious frihosters and anyone else willing too discuss this.
anyways I was thinking that if god forgives anyone and if anyone truly repents then he can be forgiven and go too heaven.
now let me explain
if someone evil comes face too face with god do you really think he wont repent, I know some will say that you cant trick god and he will truly know but in all honesty who would doubt god if he was sitting right in front of you.....any evil person would personally agree what he did was wrong...so in effect anyone who goes too hell and those who are about are always forgiven.....
so whats the actual point of hell? |
You can't repent once you are already dead. |
Why not?
This is something that I've never been able to understand.The thing is, he will forgive anyone IF they are baptized. It says so in the Bible. Being baptized is the initial forgiving of sins. Then you can later repent if you TRULY stop sinning.
So, in other words, there is no need for "The Sinner's Prayer" which many denominations use. Also, it is like lying to God if you ask for forgiveness of your sins, just to turn around and knowingly commit the same sin.
doesnt that mean god is not forgiving cause think about it, what if it takes longer for the person too realise what he is doing? what if hell opens his eyes and even though in his heart he is trully sry and wants too be forgiven he cant be because he is already in hell...
ps - I dont think life is hell i think the opposite life is heaven its the only time where you are you and are able too choose and think and it should be a happy time sure people are suffering all over the world but that doesnt mean i cant be happy and have a fun life.
That's an interesting idea. About people believing when they're seeing.
You do have to take this standing before god/heaven and hell thing with a grain of salt, though. It's all very metaphorical.
But apparently God is only so forgiving, and won't put up with too much crap. (i.e., people waiting to the last moment to think things over, insanity and other mental problems, etc.)
Sup, I think the point of hell is to act as an oppisite or nullification for heaven. It kinda makes sense as everything in the world has an oppisite or an antonym. Example -1+1=0 and zero is nothing or the nullification another example is how acids and bases nullify and make water and salt. So if hell does exist it think it'd just be something to balance out heaven.
| ovg8 wrote: |
| Sup, I think the point of hell is to act as an oppisite or nullification for heaven. It kinda makes sense as everything in the world has an oppisite or an antonym. Example -1+1=0 and zero is nothing or the nullification another example is how acids and bases nullify and make water and salt. So if hell does exist it think it'd just be something to balance out heaven. |
It is good math, however the existence of hell and heaven does come from subjective human reasoning, not from mathematics.If we're talking Christian God / heaven / hell here, what happens to non-Christians when they die ? They haven't had a chance to repent to God so presumably they must go to hell. Oooooh, not fair, is it ? And what about animals ? Are there are any in heaven / hell ?
And as for you guys talking about how bad life is, well it obviously isn't THAT bad as the fact that you're still posting on here proves that you haven't topped yourselves yet.
The living hell of pointlessness . . . by Bluedoll
I don’t believe in hell. The bible historially refers to a real physical place that was used as a garbage dump and contained fire for disposal purposes. The dead which were honoured were put in tombs while those without were cast into that abyss. Reference is made to (the dumping pit) in a spiritual sense only and it is not a real place with this understanding.
God is forgiving of all our faults and can heal our afflictions. There must be a desire on our part to be close to God. We will always have a choice.
I do believe however there are people that will actually choose to lie, disagree and drift away from God even if it means falling off a cliff into a burning pit.
Maybe this is not the best way to make a point, I am not sure but it is the only one I can think of at the moment.
“A wife sits at home with a loving heart waiting for her husband only to learn he has turned off the road to see a vile and disgusting prostitute because this dark attraction is enticing and he has chosen instead to take that path. He might have loved his wife and ask her forgiveness except now she has left the building!”
I have heard that what's commonly known as hell and heaven are parts of the "astral plane," and souls dwelling in those regions do not do so permanently, but are reborn eventually into a body, be it human or hampster or any other.
So heaven and hell are earned through our actions and thoughts while in a human body (interestingly, the same teachings state that animals, lacking the human's conscious mind, don't go to heaven or hell, but are reborn into bodies of a higher consciousness, as though climbing a ladder). But they are temporary, not eternal. The soul is eternal though.
There are planes above the astral, apparently, which are more beautiful and wonderful even, and from which the souls won't need to be reborn into a body but can be there eternally.
Reincarnation may have been taught by Jesus himself, and was certainly taught by many other enlightened souls like buddha, Maulana Rumi and the Sufis, Sikhs, Hindus, native americans etc. If hell weren't permanent, that would make the label "All-forgiving" more appropriate for the system's creator.
| peaceupnorth wrote: |
| Reincarnation may have been taught by Jesus himself, and was certainly taught by many other enlightened souls like buddha, Maulana Rumi and the Sufis, Sikhs, Hindus, native americans etc. If hell weren't permanent, that would make the label "All-forgiving" more appropriate for the system's creator. |
Probably depends on the definition of reincarnation. If anyone would have mentioned "reincarnation may have been taught by Jesus" in the little town I came from originally, the person who said that would have been in serious trouble 
Reincarnation has not been proven to me .... yet! I'm open to any possibilities however. | deanhills wrote: |
| Reincarnation has not been proven to me .... yet! I'm open to any possibilities however. |
Just from a theological standpoint, reincarnation does help answer a lot of sticky questions, such as the topic of this thread.
Proving these things to be true or false would take some effort. I believe it is possible however. There are many methods of meditation/spiritual practice that may, as a side effect, give a person insight into the mysteries of life and death. But apart from spiritual methods, there is some interesting empirical evidence for this: Check out http://lifebeforelife.com/casestudies.htm.There is a point in everything
but hell may be pointless who knows
We can only know if there is a place called hell
but if hell is point less logic would say that heaven is pointfull
| yagnyavalkya wrote: |
There is a point in everything
but hell may be pointless who knows
We can only know if there is a place called hell
but if hell is point less logic would say that heaven is pointfull |
Maybe hell is only present in our perception, it does not have a physical existence of its own. It can be a state of being where there is total hopelessness, absence of love, isolation and despair. As simple as that? | deanhills wrote: |
| yagnyavalkya wrote: | There is a point in everything
but hell may be pointless who knows
We can only know if there is a place called hell
but if hell is point less logic would say that heaven is pointfull |
Maybe hell is only present in our perception, it does not have a physical existence of its own. It can be a state of being where there is total hopelessness, absence of love, isolation and despair. As simple as that? |
Yes some people this hell is just a state of mind. So hell is diffrent for each person, one of the reasons why it can't get "overpopulated" and animals think as well so they would have their own hell. | ovg8 wrote: |
| deanhills wrote: | | yagnyavalkya wrote: | There is a point in everything
but hell may be pointless who knows
We can only know if there is a place called hell
but if hell is point less logic would say that heaven is pointfull |
Maybe hell is only present in our perception, it does not have a physical existence of its own. It can be a state of being where there is total hopelessness, absence of love, isolation and despair. As simple as that? |
Yes some people this hell is just a state of mind. So hell is diffrent for each person, one of the reasons why it can't get "overpopulated" and animals think as well so they would have their own hell. |
How do you feel ressurecting a month old post with a sentence reply?I hear there are many points in hell. In fact there are said to be a lot of stalactites.
i think the entire concept of hell is made up
one of those tails passed down from generation to generation intended to scar kids.
i dont no man
lots of crap happens in this world
and apparantly a lot of people follow the saying what u do is what u get
but theres a lot of other crap as well
like the good being punished and the bad enjoy life
what about that then?
For those who believe that hell exists… It is not pointless as they always have in their mind that if they don’t live their life “the way they should” and if they are being bad to other people, something really bad is going to happen to them. They will be punished and they won’t be happy in after life… That keeps them from doing bad things. I guess... 
| biljap wrote: |
| For those who believe that hell exists… It is not pointless as they always have in their mind that if they don’t live their life “the way they should” and if they are being bad to other people, something really bad is going to happen to them. They will be punished and they won’t be happy in after life… That keeps them from doing bad things. I guess... |
I still believe that Hell is a state of mind and living in the "here and now". Ditto "heaven". Sort of common sense if you can work through the "hell" issues, such as forgiving everyone, and making peace with everyone, that the state of mind would go into one of "heaven". I also believe that if you are bad to other people, you are really bad to yourself in the first place, as the "bad" is always in the eye of the beholder. So if you can work through that "bad", resolve it, make it good, then the state of mind will go from "bad" to "good", "hell" to "heaven".The idea that there exists actual places called Heaven and Hell, which mete out eternal rewards and eternal damnation in the afterlife, based on ones behavior in mortal life, is further proof that religion is less about morals than it is about coercion.
The term "God fearing" is something I get to hear a lot down here in the Southern US.
"I'm a 'God fearing' man" is how most, if not all, fundamentalists see themselves. Fear God and obey His rules, and you get eternal Bliss, otherwise He will condemn you to suffering for all eternity. Not much of a choice there. So much for free will.
Hell is pretty pointless to me, as an Atheist.
It's entertaining to wonder and talk about what could be going on after death, if anything at all, but it's really quite pointless. Unless and until someone actually comes back from the other side(and I don't mean some idiot whose heart stopped for a few minutes) and can prove the existence of anything beyond death, then as far as I'm concerned, none of what has been written about it is real.
I see Hell and Heaven(and God, Angels, etc.) the same way I see ghosts. Until they are proven to exist, beyond any doubt whatsoever, they do not exist(and I'm not holding my breath). Even a little tiny shred of evidence might catch my interest, at least there's a little of that for ghosts, even if it is fake. The only evidence for Hell is a few lines written in some stories thousands of years ago by people who also wrote that a burning bush and a snake not only talked, but influenced the actions of people.
Yeah, pretty pointless.
So hell... is it functionable??? Let say it exits! You pack almost every people there until in bursts????
Or what??? In a relative world u have to have a flow for everything so hell can't be eternal... Cos then the universe collapse!! So a longer visit in hell is impossible.
So let say you put yourself in hell (God won't do it since it doesn't exist) how is your better day? All days can't be bad since then hell don't exist...
| spinout wrote: |
So hell... is it functionable??? Let say it exits! You pack almost every people there until in bursts????
Or what??? In a relative world u have to have a flow for everything so hell can't be eternal... Cos then the universe collapse!! So a longer visit in hell is impossible.
So let say you put yourself in hell (God won't do it since it doesn't exist) how is your better day? All days can't be bad since then hell don't exist... |
In my view life is "hell", so all of it is not that bad as we do have our moments of "light relief". However, we certainly are getting overcrowded on earth.First I think "Hell" needs to be defined. In the Biblical sense it is used to refer to the grave. The place where the dead go. It is as Bluedoll stated also referenced to a refuse area. I think this is where the idea of "hell fire" possible originated. Hell = Sheol in Hebrew and I believe the Greek is Hades.
The Apostles Creed:
| Quote: |
| I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried. He descended into hell. The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit. I believe in the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. |
| Quote: |
| There are two perspectives necessary to understand this issue, one cultural and historical and the other exegetical. In the old King James Version, the English word “hell” actually was used to translate two different words and two very different concepts. One term was the word gehenna, (for example, Matt 5:22). This was adapted from the name of a valley to the south of the Temple in Jerusalem where the city garbage was burned, the “Valley of Hinnom.” Because of the perpetual fires, and also because there had been idols to the Canaanite god Molech erected there to which were offered human sacrifices, ge hinnom (“valley of Hinnom” in Hebrew; 2 Kings 23:10) became a symbol for the judgment of God. The fires also came to symbolize that punishment and destruction, and became the more common way to conceptualize “hell” in later Christian tradition. |
| Quote: |
Another term, and one more relevant to our topic, is the Greek term Hades (for example, Matt 11:23). This term comes from Greek mythology in which it was the abode of the dead. It was used to translate into Greek the Hebrew concept of Sheol. While in the Old Testament this term was not mythological, it was a metaphorical way to talk about what happened to people when they died. Sheol was simply the place where dead people go. It was almost synonymous with death and especially “grave,” and indeed is used that way in several Old Testament passages, for example, Psa 49:14:
Like sheep they are appointed for Sheol; Death shall be their shepherd; straight to the grave they descend, and their form shall waste away; Sheol shall be their home.
In other words, Sheol or Hades was a poetic way to say, “they died and were buried.” It is in this sense that the phrase in the Apostles’ Creed is used, using the ambiguous word “hell” in English, when the more precise idea of Hades actually lies behind the statement. “He descended into hell” then becomes nothing more than a statement that Jesus died and was placed in the tomb, the grave. Using Hebrew concepts, Israelites would say he descended into Sheol, that is, was lowered into the grave. Or they could say that he slept with the fathers (for example, 1 Kings 2:10), that is, was placed in a family tomb. It is in that context that the affirmation of the resurrection is so powerful.
This confusion of the concept may already have been at work in the early church, and may even have influenced the passages in 1 Peter, recognized by most scholars to be some of the latest in the New Testament written near the end of the first century. We cannot be sure of that, but in any case there is more to be gained in looking exegetically at those passages. |
source | deanhills wrote: |
| spinout wrote: | So hell... is it functionable??? Let say it exits! You pack almost every people there until in bursts????
Or what??? In a relative world u have to have a flow for everything so hell can't be eternal... Cos then the universe collapse!! So a longer visit in hell is impossible.
So let say you put yourself in hell (God won't do it since it doesn't exist) how is your better day? All days can't be bad since then hell don't exist... |
In my view life is "hell", so all of it is not that bad as we do have our moments of "light relief". However, we certainly are getting overcrowded on earth. |
Life is "hell" relative to what? This is all you know -- what are you comparing this life to in order to make the conclusion that it's "hell?" | liljp617 wrote: |
| Life is "hell" relative to what? This is all you know -- what are you comparing this life to in order to make the conclusion that it's "hell?" |
Good question. Probably relative to what we have been taught about what hell is supposed to be like versus what we have been told what heaven is about and real life experiences of sorrow and joy. Life is mostly sorrow. Think the Buddhists believe in that. For me life is mostly hell with small doses of heaven thrown in here and there. Heaven could be absence of hell. And the other way round.
