FRIHOSTFORUMSSEARCHFAQTOSBLOGSDIRECTORY
You are invited to Log in or Register a Frihost Account!

Arabs replace hatred of Israel with fear of Iran?

 


ocalhoun
Washington Times
July 29, 2009
Pg. 1

Quote:
Newsmaker interview

Cohen Says Fear Of Iran Now Tops Wrath Against Israel In Middle East

By Nicholas Kralev, The Washington Times

Former Defense Secretary William S. Cohen said Tuesday that fears about Iran have replaced animosity toward Israel as the top concern of governments in the Persian Gulf and the broader Middle East.

Mr. Cohen, a former senator from Maine who was the only Republican in President Clinton's Cabinet, from 1997 to 2001, also warned the Obama administration that it would be a “mistake" to promise Russia to scale back plans for a missile-defense shield in Europe before Moscow helps stop Iran's nuclear ambitions. He gently chided top administration officials for recent comments criticizing Russia, which he said needlessly antagonized a Kremlin still resentful of U.S. treatment after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Having made six trips to the Gulf in the past 18 months, Mr. Cohen came to a conclusion reached by other U.S. and foreign diplomats and analysts regarding Arab jitters about Iranian influence.

"What has changed in the Gulf region from my perspective is that, in all my years in the past, the first thing I'd get was a lecture about Israel, and it could last for a long time," Mr. Cohen told editors and reporters at The Washington Times.

"I no longer receive that, and when I go and travel, what I hear is, there is greater fear of Iran than there is animus toward Israel," he said. "So that is almost a predominant sentiment that I've noticed throughout most, if not all, of the Gulf states."


Mr. Cohen, who after leaving office in 2001 founded the global consulting firm the Cohen Group, said that many Arab leaders have made gestures toward Israel in a sign of their shifting strategic concerns. He cited a meeting he attended that was hosted by the emir of Qatar last year and also included Tzipi Livni, who was Israel's foreign minister.

"I think [the Arabs] accept the fact that Israel is going to be there, it's going to exist, and now the question is, how do you solve the issue for the Palestinians?" he said.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has said that several Gulf foreign ministers have expressed concerns about Iran's nuclear program. Last week, she reprised a position from her unsuccessful presidential campaign, saying the United States could extend a "defense umbrella" over its allies in the Gulf if Iran did not abandon its apparent pursuit of nuclear weapons.

Mr. Cohen said the situation with Iran underlined the need for closer U.S. relations with Russia, which provides Iran with weapons and has offered nuclear fuel as a substitute for Iranian enrichment of uranium.

"Nothing is going to happen in respect to Iran without the support of the Russians," he said.

However, Mr. Cohen chided President Obama for signaling in a letter to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev earlier this year that the U.S. might cancel a proposed missile-defense deployment in Poland and the Czech Republic if Moscow helps with Iran. The lack of an Iranian threat would make the highly sophisticated and expensive project less useful, Mr. Obama said.

"To do that before you have any agreement on Iran would be a mistake," Mr. Cohen said. "It's premature, because as long as North Korea, and especially as long as Iran, remains a threat to us, then we are going to go forward with that missile-defense capability, as is currently envisioned.

"If, however, you are to weigh in and joined the effort to send a signal to Iran that you are prepared to really crack down on that country, then there is basis for agreement and we may be able to have some kind of renegotiation on the placement of things," he said.

Recent comments by Mr. Obama and Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. have not been consistent with official U.S. policy of "resetting" the relationship with Russia, Mr. Cohen added.

Nearly 20 years after the end of the Cold War, "the Russians are still pretty angry at the U.S.," Mr. Cohen said.

"There is deep-seated resentment" and they "think we took advantage of the collapse of their empire ... and they feel like the Rodney Dangerfield of Europe," he said, referring to the late comedian who complained that he could get "no respect."

Mr. Biden told the Wall Street Journal last week that the Russians "have a withering economy" and a "banking sector and structure that is not likely to be able to withstand the next 15 years."

Just before going to Moscow earlier this month, Mr. Obama said that Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin still has one foot in the Cold War.

"Whenever you are dealing with other countries, whatever your private feelings may be, you need to treat those countries with respect," Mr. Cohen said. "Whatever negative views you have, you hold them for yourself."

Just as Russia is pivotal to dealing with Iran, Mr. Cohen said, China is critical to containing and reversing North Korea's nuclear program.

Quoting the late American playwright William Inge, Mr. Cohen said, "You can build a throne of swords but you can't sit on it unless you give them a cushion. You have to take the cushion [of foreign aid] away" from North Korea.


That's certainly an interesting development... and it could change the dynamics of politics within the whole region. Do you think this will really be a big change there?
deanhills
I don't know where he visited, but as far as I can see the Palestinians still get the top billing everywhere. Sort of has become a vested political interest topic over a great number of years. Lately it has become headlines again in the Middle East as a result of the investigations into Israel's conduct during the war in January.

I do believe what he said below is true however. Arabs have become to accept that Israel is real and it is there:
Quote:
"I think [the Arabs] accept the fact that Israel is going to be there, it's going to exist, and now the question is, how do you solve the issue for the Palestinians?" he said.

The issue of Palestinians is a real problem for many. Sometimes an irritable one as some countries have become reluctant to provide work for Palestinians (they would never officially admit to this) as they already have such large numbers in their countries. Once they employ Palestinians on contract, it is much more difficult to end their contracts, than for labourers from other countries.
BinahZ
[bThe Development of Arab Anti-Semitism
Interview with Meir Litvak[/b]
Quote:
Anti-Semitism's Integration in the Arab Cultural Discourse
“Western research on the Middle East tends to suppress or diminish the significance of Arab anti-Semitism, presenting it as a marginal phenomenon. Bernard Lewis was one of the few scholars of the Moslem world who dealt with this challenge in his book Semites and anti-Semites.10 This led to major criticism from the academic establishment in the United States despite the book's resonance in American non-academic circles.

“Harkabi thought that Arab anti-Semitism was the result of the Palestinian conflict and that if a political solution for it could be found Arab anti-Semitism would weaken. Perhaps that was true 30 years ago. Today anti-Semitism has become an integral part of the intellectual and cultural discourse of the Arab world. Much of Arab society believes it and it is much harder to uproot than was the case 30 or 40 years ago.

“The Western public which reads articles with strong anti-Israel bias in the press can also peruse texts showing the Jews and Zionism in a positive light. This is not the case in the Arab world. What is presented about Israel and the Jews is totally biased and easy to digest. Why would they have any doubts when they are not exposed to anything else in the Arab media.”


Egyptian Intellectuals: Peace means Arab Failure
“Even for Egyptian intellectuals today, many years after the Peace Treaty, Israel's existence represents an admission of the defeat of the Arab national vision. It is a confession that Egypt has failed to realize its historical destiny and greatness. For Arab regimes it is convenient to let the anti-Semitic propaganda flourish in order to divert the attention of Arab public opinion away from their own failures. A rulers' covenant of convenience exists with the intellectuals who can vent all their frustration on the status of the Arabs against the Jews and Israel. That is much more agreeable to the Arab governments than focusing on the economic, cultural and social failure of the Arab world.

“Arafat hoped that public pressure would drive Arab leaders to interfere, maybe even by military means and force Israel to accept the Palestinian demands. He also wanted to create a situation where the foreign powers would interfere, but failed. Arab leaders, most notably Mubarak of Egypt, refused to go to war, but the Palestinians succeeded in enhancing the general Arab hatred against Israel. Whether they planned that in advance, I do not know.

Litvak concludes: “Israelis are the main victims of Arab anti-Semitism, which represents also a catastrophe for the Arabs. The Russian writer Andrei Siniavsky once said that 'anti-Semitism is a disaster for the Jews, but it is the sickness of the Russians and their disaster as well.' It prevented the Russians from confronting their own historical reality. Similarly, anti-Semitism absolves the Arab people from dealing with their own major failures. They are thus likely to remain in their pitiable situation.”

Interviewed by Manfred Gerstenfeld


Anyone who believes that there is an acceptance of Israel by the Arab world, needs to learn a bit of arabic and listen and read what is being taught not only to the citizens, but more importantly to the children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR5cfb-9iuU << a sad and shocking display of the truth and the children, the ones whom we will entrust the future to.

This is a matter that needs researched beyond the surface of what is supplied by the mass media and their biases.
I am a advocate of peace and a advocate of the Jewish State of Israel.
I believe both are possible if we are willing to work together towards that common goal.
Historical honesty must come first.
Jupis
I don't know I think they do accept Israel because it has money and power in the global community. But they don't like them because of the history.

Israel on the other hand has a similar role. They don't like the Arab nations because they think they're out to get them.

Both sides are wrong, I don't see Israel as being any friendlier than the surrounding Arab nations. The world makes things worse, politicians make it worse, both sides could live in peace if not for the extremists on both sides.
deanhills
BinahZ wrote:
Historical honesty must come first.
Whose honesty are we talking about here? Whose history?
BinahZ
deanhills

the honest history of the evolution of the people and the land...that would be a start.
Jupis wrote
Quote:
Israel on the other hand has a similar role. They don't like the Arab nations because they think they're out to get them.

Both sides are wrong, I don't see Israel as being any friendlier than the surrounding Arab nations. The world makes things worse, politicians make it worse, both sides could live in peace if not for the extremists on both sides.


Jupis, look at a map of the middle east, and look at what Israel is surrounded by. "they think" the arabs are out to get them? The missles and suicide bombers are a good clue.
liljp617
Maybe this will reassert the balance of hate

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians
BinahZ
Eviction over disputed land in no way "balances" anything. Eviction is not murder.
I did not write my previous post to stir debate on who hates who more, but as a reply to
the proposed arab acceptance of the Jewish state. So take it in its context or not. We could spend years posting examples back and forth to no avail. The reality of the matter exist in my post in the History forum re: The state of Palestine. That is my perspective and others believe differently. So be it.
Jupis
I've lived in various parts of the Middle East, including a few months in Haifa, Israel. So please don't give me some bs lecture as if I have no idea of what's going on. The propaganda on both sides is egregarious and unfortunately people on both sides only see the extremism of the other side.

Israel is surrounded by countries that don't like it's presence, but Israel is not helping the situation especially since their reliance on IDF to enforce diplomacy on the borders is ridiculous. The terrorist threats from suicide bombers are overly exaggerated by politicians, most people in Israel live in relative comfort and don't really have to worry about terrorist attacks. The missles are scary but so rarely ever even work, when they do come it's mostly false alarms or it doesn't actually hit anything - and it happens so rarely yet many right-wingers try to push it as if it's a daily occurence which it's not.

I've seen both sides, and I'm not Israeli or Arab, neither Jew nor Muslim. So I think I can speak from a side of neutrality, they both are wrong and they both commit horrible atrocities. But when you look at the numbers you quickly realize that the death count on the Palestinian side is a lot higher than the Israel side. I never into Palestine or the West Bank but from what I've heard and seen the standard of living there is horrible, and that's large in part to the blockades. I also don't like how IDF has operated and how the right-wing rules over Israel - 1 week before I left Israel there was a protest group downtown Haifa that was a coalition of Israelis and Palestinians who were protesting some IDF massacre of a school house, they sent in police to arrest all the protesters even though they had been doing it peacefully. I don't want to argue it out further but I Israel gov't plays the victim card too much, especially since they're the ones with the upper hand and the better military and they command more global respect. It doesn't help that the Arab sentiment spurs racism towards Jews which is seen as another reason to allow IDF to do what it wants.
deanhills
BinahZ wrote:
Jupis, look at a map of the middle east, and look at what Israel is surrounded by. "they think" the arabs are out to get them? The missles and suicide bombers are a good clue.
You mean to say if the Israelis should say "peace brothers" on a given day and give up all armaments etc. that the Arabs will let them be? I doubt it. They have much too many scores to settle that come over many centuries. If one did go down history lane it shows that those who are the fittest in warfare, usually were in control of Palestine. Alternative being slave to others. Right now Israel is the fittest, and ironically it is not only in the interest of Israel to be the fittest, but in the interest of the whole balance of power in the Middle East that that remains so.

During the last war in January between Israel and Palestinians it was quite obvious knowledge that while there was supposedly a semi-peace agreement between the two, that Palestine had been violating it, and was actually smuggling weapons through Egypt with the assistance of the Egyptians in order to fire missiles on Israel. How is any peace possible when there can't be at least a semblance of trust in upholding agreements between the two parties?
BinahZ
Jupis,
your experience is yours and creates your perspective.
But I have a different perspective. I have friends in Tzfat and the Haifa area. My brother just returned this last winter.
The missles are very real to them. Downplaying and minimizing it is something I will not agree to.
Israeli politics like any other country has it good and bad points.
Party allegiance and personal interest affects ones view.
deanhills
Jupis wrote:
So I think I can speak from a side of neutrality, they both are wrong and they both commit horrible atrocities. But when you look at the numbers you quickly realize that the death count on the Palestinian side is a lot higher than the Israel side. I never into Palestine or the West Bank but from what I've heard and seen the standard of living there is horrible, and that's large in part to the blockades.
You say you are neutral, and then you move straight on to Palestine being the injured party, which is a non-neutral position. I also did not hear you mention that the Palestine military created targets out of its own people, which was a direct consequence of provoking Israel with continuous missiles. I don't agree with war or what Israel did, but the Palestinian leaders are definitely not innocent. It was particularly noteworthy how very quickly the media seemed to have access to all of the shocking photos, even when no reporters had been allowed in the war zone. It would be easy to come to the conclusion that Hamas was deliberately creating human sacrifice in order to promote its own cause. Why did it allow the war to stretch out for days. If Hamas were as concerned for its people as it wanted the world to know it was, why not stop immediately to prevent further bloodshed? Instead of allowing the bombardments to continue for days and days.
goutha
I'm not sure if arabs fear or hate Iran. I'm also not sure that Iran is a country more dangerous than the US, North Corea, Pakistan or Israel. All these countries have nuclear weapons and can use them at anytime.
menino
The arab world is strange at best to describe.
Everyone seems to hate everyone else in the arab world.

But to let you know for a fact, that most arabs hate Israel and are out to get them, and if it wasnt for strict security measures, Israel would have lots of terrorism.

Arabs also hate Iran, because Iran seems to be a threat to them. Iran does not regard itself as Arab nation, but as persian nation, that is why arabs are scared of Iran as well. Also the fact, that to get through Israel, it will affect neighboring arab states.

Thats just my 2 cents.

Note the fact, that it was initially the arabs who wanted to get rid of Israeli's using the British forces occupying the land at the time. Also Israel welcomed Arabs to stay if they wanted, and still allow arabs to use their schools and for work as well.
Bit some policies of Israel are bad, like shooting children and civilians and taking their land as well.

Just my 2 cents.
deanhills
goutha wrote:
I'm not sure if arabs fear or hate Iran. I'm also not sure that Iran is a country more dangerous than the US, North Corea, Pakistan or Israel. All these countries have nuclear weapons and can use them at anytime.
I have to agree. Perhaps with the exception of Israel. Think Israel has recently proven that it will go to any lengths to defend the safety of its borders, and when it is really under attack I can imagine it would be a lethal country in every sense of the word. Iran however ranks very highly, especially since Iraq has weakened so much after all the war destruction. So this may be one of the reasons why the US elected to stay to help prop them up until they are stronger to help themselves. Hopefully Iraq can count on some help internationally if and when Iran starts to flex its muscles, as Iran obviously has scores of grievances to settle with Iraq.
Related topics

Israel and Iran are the worst?
Iran...war looming ?
Are Americans stupid?
More Bad News for Brits? Wealth Redistribution
WW III?!?!?

The Middle East Conflict
anti-ISLAM movie WTF? (a neutral post)
Israel: Cruelty
Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran
Iran says will resume atomic work

Show US how it's done, Russia...
Petition to destroy the Iranian nuclear facilities
Egypt unveils nuclear power plan
al-Jazeera Poll: 54% Agree With Algerian Suicide Attacks..
Iraq War Today
Reply to topic    Frihost Forum Index -> Lifestyle and News -> Discuss World News

FRIHOST HOME | FAQ | TOS | ABOUT US | CONTACT US | SITE MAP
© 2005-2007 Frihost, forums powered by phpBB.