A simple question but not a simple answer?
basically i was watching this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq06D0xRWmc
but dont mind the silly title, basicalle soviet scientist brought back dogs too life and even let severed heads live for several minuets,
.......DO NOT WATCH IF YOU ARE FEINT OF HEART OR A SERIOUS ANIMAL LOVER...... but its very educational
and after watching I asked myself....
if death can be potentially stopped is death a disease....? I was watching a show on the History channel last night. They had a few "experts" on there talking about death as being the failing of the body's systems from the day we are born. Some were stating that death itself is a disease, and some people believe so strongly in this that they choose to chronologically freeze their bodies until the disease of death is cured. Quite an interesting program, really. They even had a few doctors on there who were trying to create a warehouse of artificial organs that could be transplanted at will to stop death from occurring.
| Bannik wrote: |
but dont mind the silly title, basicalle soviet scientist brought back dogs too life and even let severed heads live for several minuets,
|
Yes, but only if they were dead for a very short time, and when they were brought back to life, they had severe brain damage, and didn't live much longer.Bannik, being a dog and animal lover, I chose not to look at the show, but am interested in the topic however. Thought whether we could use the example of leaves of a tree, and equate the leaves with human life. When we are born, we already are predestined to die. We could possibly fiddle around with DNA and genes and stuff, but ultimately we have to say cheerio to the world. Sort of our destiny.
| ocalhoun wrote: |
| Bannik wrote: |
but dont mind the silly title, basicalle soviet scientist brought back dogs too life and even let severed heads live for several minuets,
|
Yes, but only if they were dead for a very short time, and when they were brought back to life, they had severe brain damage, and didn't live much longer. |
actually if you watch part 2 the dog lived for a year or so and sure its only a short death reversed but considering the times the where done, think of what we could do if the research continued.I don't think that death is a disease, but it can be a consequence of disease.
Death is the final stage of our journey on earth.
| Bannik wrote: |
| the dog lived for a year or so |
Still, a very short life for a dog, unless it was already very old.I doubt death is a disease, it's the end of a cycle. Can anyone think of anything living that doesn't die? What disease literally wipes out every living being?
| TurtleShell wrote: |
| I doubt death is a disease, it's the end of a cycle. Can anyone think of anything living that doesn't die? What disease literally wipes out every living being? |
technically yes but some animals have found a way around it.
http://www.zmescience.com/meet-the-worlds-only-immortal-animal
but let me clarify the reason i bring up this topic is that scientist have found that some chemicals in the body (or something biological dont ask i dont remember) that actually age us, so in effect its not like our body parts age and grow old its that there is something that makes them do this...which is kinda strange....
scientist claimed that if they find it and study it they would eventually find a way too either slow it down, stop it or even reverse its effects (oh year immortality here i come)
this also has basis in the case of the immortal child ( http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/Story?id=7880954&page=1 )
basically a girl is not aging.....
and hear are some more supports stories suggesting aging is not wear and tear but actually something else.
http://www.barchester.com/Healthcare-News/Scientists-reverse-effects-of-aging-in-mice/376/1800
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1198366/Fountain-youth-drug-extend-life-decade.html
etc the rest you can googleWho is to say that the chemicals in our bodies that age us aren't supposed to be there? What makes these chemicals outside agents rather than just a part of ourselves?
Is death a disease? Good question. Probably depends on how you define "disease". I would think that an inclusive definition could make almost anything a disease.
My answer to the question is "No", death is not a disease. It is a punishment from God for willfully turning our backs and sinning against Him.
"For the wages of sin is death" - Romans 6:23, Holy Bible, English Standard Version
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" - Romans 5:12
| farmerdave wrote: |
Is death a disease? Good question. Probably depends on how you define "disease". I would think that an inclusive definition could make almost anything a disease.
My answer to the question is "No", death is not a disease. It is a punishment from God for willfully turning our backs and sinning against Him.
"For the wages of sin is death" - Romans 6:23, Holy Bible, English Standard Version
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" - Romans 5:12 |
Farmerdave, if one follows your reasoning I would have to say that we must have sinned before we were born. Otherwise your theory could not make any sense at all. I believe that we are living in hell. Hell being the norm, and us getting a few glimpses of heaven from time to time in art, music, laughter, dancing, love, friendship, etc. The punishment of death already started at birth, and is a direct consequence of being born. Almost as though we are all on death's row while we are alive.That vid is fu*ked. As living beings there is a cycle and death is at the end of that cycle. It's inhumane to being back what's dead, alive.
| deanhills wrote: |
| farmerdave wrote: | Is death a disease? Good question. Probably depends on how you define "disease". I would think that an inclusive definition could make almost anything a disease.
My answer to the question is "No", death is not a disease. It is a punishment from God for willfully turning our backs and sinning against Him.
"For the wages of sin is death" - Romans 6:23, Holy Bible, English Standard Version
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" - Romans 5:12 |
Farmerdave, if one follows your reasoning I would have to say that we must have sinned before we were born. Otherwise your theory could not make any sense at all. I believe that we are living in hell. Hell being the norm, and us getting a few glimpses of heaven from time to time in art, music, laughter, dancing, love, friendship, etc. The punishment of death already started at birth, and is a direct consequence of being born. Almost as though we are all on death's row while we are alive. |
Deanhills,
Good reasoning. I would agree with the problems around us, but would hold to the conclusion that this is a fallen world. The reason we desire peace on earth and no more murders, rapes, etc. is that we were made to live in a world that doesn't have these things. So, there still remains something of the desire to live in the type of world we were created for deep within us.
Did WE sin before we were born? No. We couldn't have sinned because we weren't born. Adam and Eve, as the representatives of the human race, sinned (see Genesis 2 & 3). Somehow this guaranteed that we would sin as well. Similar to how a disease spreads from parent to child, sin, as the desire to rebel against God, spread to every human child. Of course, history is replete with how we have succombed to this desire and actively sinned (rebelled against God). So, the consequence for sin (death) has also come to all men. Somehow this corruption has also spread to all of creation.
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" - Romans 5:12.
"...that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption... For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now." - Romans 8:21-22
The positive side is that Christ also came as a representative for the human race. He didn't rebel against God in deed or desire. He fulfilled the commandments of God, then paid the debt we owe to God while on the cross. His resurrection was the first part in defeating death. He will ultimately put an end to death once and for all. The benefits are available to as many as will believe.
"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous." - Romans 5:18-19
"For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive." - 1 Corinthians 15:21-22
"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away." And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." - Revelation 21:3-5
Blessings,
David | Denvis wrote: |
| That vid is fu*ked. As living beings there is a cycle and death is at the end of that cycle. It's inhumane to being back what's dead, alive. |
Says who?
Why?
Sounds like idiotic dogma to me.Hmmm... Well it can be safely said that this discussion requires some dogged thinking!
That's a good innovative topic...... different angle to see the death
I think if no disease, you will not die.
But the reality is that your body, as time goes, will be weakened and get "disease".... os you wil die by disease.....
| eltongeorge wrote: |
That's a good innovative topic...... different angle to see the death
I think if no disease, you will not die.
But the reality is that your body, as time goes, will be weakened and get "disease".... os you wil die by disease..... |
let me explaine some scientist believe that the weakening of the body is the disease, we age and decompose because of a chemicle that somehow does this too us, if we could isolate it we could in time, stop it or even reverse it or slow it down so no longer be afflicted with death.I would have to say that for me, death is not a disease. It is part of the cycle of life...the last phase of our life. Some people die of a disease, but death in itself is not a disease.
Dentists Boca Raton | Dentist Alta Monte Springs | youngmiki13 wrote: |
I would have to say that for me, death is not a disease. It is part of the cycle of life...the last phase of our life. Some people die of a disease, but death in itself is not a disease.
Dentists Boca Raton | Dentist Alta Monte Springs |
but it functions like a disease.Physical death is inevitable, since our planet and our galaxy (probably universe too) is ultimately temporary. There's no way we can prevent these bodies from eventually returning to the elements form which they arose, returning to the primordial "soup"...
Really, why should we fear death? It is going to happen to everyone, after all... why not expect it? And prepare for it?
But your question may have another answer... what if we were already immortal, and our bodies are just garments to be worn out? But we are so identified with our garments that we've forgotten what we really are, and so we fear death immensely.
If that were the case, then yes, death is a curable disease. It would be cured not by using some frankenstein-like process to keep our fleshy husks alive, but by realizing our immortal nature, by turning deep inside and transcending this material world. Then "Death" would cease to be this terrifying and tragic event, there would only be eternal life and consciousness.
The Buddha and the Hindus taught that this was possible, and devised many different ways to do so. Jesus said "Learn to die, so that you may begin to live" and St. Paul said "I die daily" ... maybe they were talking about something like this? The Muslim Sufis are also interested in curing this disease and realizing these higher levels of reality.
I'm really interested in doing this, and my experience says that it might be possible. If it were possible, would that not be the most important thing one could realize in one's life?
Sub: How death is inevitable
It is true that death is inevitable. Scientifically the most important reason is wear and tear in the health of organs. How long a person can keep it good? Finally a time will gonna come when it will stop its good functionality.
Say one day we will find a way to keep ourselves live using some machines (like pacemaker), artificial kidneys, artificial liver system etc. but then issue will come to make them good working without any issue.
And we all know 100% fix is not there in the world, so time will comes say after 3000 years due to human’s fault, negligence etc. etc. the person will die.
In short Death is unavoidable this way or that way.
-- Thanks
The purpose of a dog is to bark it’s masters head off . . . by Bluedoll
I don’t mind admitting that I may be wrong in my beliefs. After all is said and done if we didn’t accept the fact that our first belief might possibly be misinformed, misguided or simply not the right one then how could we possibly say we are here to learn.
So keeping that thought in mind, I would suggest as a scientific experiment to examine the possibility of scientific life being a non healthy existence. For this experiment we might gather up the bright and certainly educated scientists that need to explore the world by having absolute physical evidence laid before them and smack them in the head with a bag full of glass marbles until they say, “ouch, I think I hear something rolling around in there?”
Is it because certain scientists are not very bright or is it because they lack the ability to know how to test their theories and more over how to communicate to others the feasibility of such a theory and have to resort to a demonstration of sheer stupidity. On the other hand they simply might not have a heart, a rational brain or carry some ghastly disease themselves.
Everything in the universe is involved in a perpetual cycle. Things are brought into existence, we call this life, exist for a time and then go into another kind of existence we call death. Do we need to ask is this natural cycle a disease? I have a better idea. Let us ask ourselves what a disease is and the purpose for it. Then we might be able to accept the existence of this creation. Study it, understand it, deal with it but try not to eliminate it from a life cycle or wonder why life ends. Why? Well let’s study that. I think there are many ways of conducting experiments in a natural environment without evolving into frankenstein ideology but then some so called scientists wouldn’t understand that.
I would change my viewpoints on this subject if I came to another conclusion but I think I am deadly seriously, right!
natural cycle a disease? - thats the problem the world is chaotic there is no natural cycle of anything, its just randomness in a big pile of chaos mixed with unknown sprinkled with secrets
Well you can believe that it is chaotic Bannik if you like but I don't. I see very clearly everything has a specific order and everthing in the universe is connected together and has a purpose, even disease.
I was referring to the natural cycles that we see, (the life span of a plant, insect, animal etc or even the life of a star or cells in our bodies). Death is just a much a part of exsistance as life is. One example of a cycle might be petrolum that we use everyday. It was once living plants produced from energy from our sun and now part of our exsistance.
Things just go around and around so I don't see why disease or even death would be left out of it?
It is true that inbalances do occur and chaos results but balance in nature is always restored. There are indeed secrets, and very clear reasons for everything as well.
| Bannik wrote: |
| natural cycle a disease? - thats the problem the world is chaotic there is no natural cycle of anything, its just randomness in a big pile of chaos mixed with unknown sprinkled with secrets |
Probably that is our perception talking here that is flawed most of the time. How can we possibly see things perfectly when we are here only temporarily and specks of nothing in our relationship with the whole big Universe. I believe there is a perfect order out there, but our perception is very much flawed, being the equivalent of the cave analogy that Plato gave where our hands are bound, and we can only "interpret" our reality out of the shadows playing on the wall of the cave and the noises we hear from outside.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cavefound in cave underground . . . by Bluedoll
Yes, our temporary existence here could effect our perception but don’t we already have a brain, a heart and the courage that we need to find our way home?
Plato also said, “we can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
The universe is an unending wonderment full of shinning stars for us to discover and even if we encounter obstacles, develop flaws or find ourselves in utter darkness somewhere there will be a little light of truth to follow.
I like the idea of immortality.
I don't know if I would say death is a disease, slapping a new label on something doesn't change what it is. If science can negate the process of decay and death, then I say 'go for it'. Imagine the potential for space travel.
I don't put a huge religious spin on death. It's a biological process, nothing spiritual about it. And that whole "we are not meant to live forever" shtick is lame. At one point, we weren't meant to fly either, according to most of the world. But science had to beat back that ugly head of ignorance... again.
So who knows? Maybe death is just another ugly head on the Hydra of ignorance that we can lop off.
Not sure what version of immorality is meaningful? If it means artificial life by some techno borg machine think I will pass. If science could come up with a way to give longevity to life in a positive way then that would be great. However, lets call a science breakthrough simply a small part of a huge wonderful place we call the universe.
Here we are writing in the philosophy and religion section and talking about science. Well science has its place too I suppose. Science is a great tool and can change our world for the better. Spirituality does not change anything it just opens up new doors of understanding.
When talking about science, is it not lame to consider that everything around us in the universe has a life span and would it not seem arrogant perhaps unscientific to consider immortality a possible normalcy by scientific measure? I fear all science could ever produce in that regard would be an ugly head.
| Bluedoll wrote: |
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Is it because certain scientists are not very bright or is it because they lack the ability to know how to test their theories and more over how to communicate to others the feasibility of such a theory and have to resort to a demonstration of sheer stupidity. On the other hand they simply might not have a heart, a rational brain or carry some ghastly disease themselves.
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Once a scientist took a frog. He
-- cut his one leg and placed it on one corner of the table and stroke hammer on other corner of the table.
~ Observation/Result: Frog jumped because Frog listened.
-- cut his another leg and placed it on one corner of the table and stroke hammer on other corner of the table.
~ Observation/Result: Frog jumped because Frog listened.
-- cut his third leg and placed it on one corner of the table and stroke hammer on other corner of the table.
~ Observation/Result: Frog jumped (a little bit) because Frog listened.
-- cut his forth/last leg and placed it on one corner of the table and stroke hammer on other corner of the table.
~ Observation/Result: Frog did not jump because Frog did not listen.
** So final conclusion is Forg stops listening (hearing gets damaged) when four legs are cut.
So if we will survive with machine, make sure survival is not a result of experiment like a scientist did in above joke.
-- Thanks
