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Misunderrepresented again, Dubya and the US economy





S3nd K3ys
This will have the lefies rolling on the floor laughing, and there is some truth here too.

I hadn't thought of this one but it does make sense.

Quote:
If Democrat-voting minorities do not return to New Orleans in massive numbers, there is every indication that Louisiana will become a GOP stronghold, just like its neighbors in the South. It is New Orleans votes that have sufficed to elect governors and senators of the Democrat persuasion, making Louisiana the anomalous Southern Democrat stronghold it has remained since the end of Reconstruction. An enhanced GOP majority in the Senate will be helpful in further re-population of the federal judiciary with those who believe the Constitution means what it says.

George W. Bush has more than three years left in office to implement this strategy. Let his enemies relax in the dubious assumption that they have him on the ropes. That belief has betrayed them many times in the past. It is his conservative allies who need to pay close attention, and understand that he knows and understands strategy in a way no other president ever has.


Source
dkershner
LOL!

I knew there was something fishy going on with these hurricanes. Bush didn't even act surprised. Wink
gonzo
that one article wrote:
If Democrat-voting minorities do not return to New Orleans in massive numbers


This is contingent on

- violating the don't-live-somewhere-stupid rubric

- the assumption that someone will actually want to waste money rebuilding an anti-capitalist, rent control housing development

- the tax-paying American public being tolerant of them



that one article wrote:
there is every indication that Louisiana will become a GOP stronghold


It's good for the economy. It stuns me how people who are multiple times my age fail to grasp the basics of economics. And moreover how the socialists think they'd be better off without America (subsystem to the world economy)



that one article wrote:
An enhanced GOP majority in the Senate will be helpful in


Forstalling marxists and other fascsists from destroying the American Experiment from the inside.



that one article wrote:
further re-population of the federal judiciary with those who believe the Constitution means what it says.


Amen. This goes back to fixing our public education system and terminating all liberalists. Language is a consistent expression of thought.
S3nd K3ys
gonzo wrote:
...
It's good for the economy. It stuns me how people who are multiple times my age fail to grasp the basics of economics. And moreover how the socialists think they'd be better off without America (subsystem to the world economy)

...


Concur. It was a good article, and basically true. There was a seriously funny part that I was referring to...

Quote:
Louisiana will become a GOP stronghold, just like its neighbors in the South


Neighbors to the south? Thomas Lifson = owned by geography. Shocked
shr3dd
I have never thought of it that way either, let's hope they dont go to a GOP state and turn it. Also, here's hoping by tomorrow Rita strays into Mexico, actually scratch that, Mexicans have too much practice swimming thanks to the Rio Grande, it won't phase 'em.
lib
dkershner wrote:
Bush didn't even act surprised.

Lol. Right, so a pre-ordered hurricane sent to New Orleans?
S3nd K3ys
lib wrote:
dkershner wrote:
Bush didn't even act surprised.

Lol. Right, so a pre-ordered hurricane sent to New Orleans?


and Texas.

Next he'll order an earthquake strike in California. Wink
shr3dd
Soon, Bush will send a giant sandstorm to the middle east to kill all the muslims (George Bush doesn't care about muslims, kanye west told me) and then he'll take all the oil Texas roundup style!!! and even if Bush controlled the weather (that would be badass) why would he send a Cat. 4 to his homestate?
ilibrium
Somehow I don't think Kanye West qualifies as a reliable source for information on the president's personal beliefs...
earthchild
the prevailing thought among so called lefties... is that righties forgot where their brain was, and their heart is hidden away in box somewhere. or is that what righties think of lefties? (does it really matter, in the big scheme of things who you say is left and who you say is right? really?)

what drives me to post this reply is the fact that some of you seem to have forgotten your heart. I don't think you are stupid. I can see though that you did forget about the people who died or lost everything (I'm sure there were a good share of republicans among them too) It's all about some idea planted in your head so that you really never stopped to really feel. Will you really care what party or what side someone is on when they are dying in front of you? I don't think so. So why should it matter if they are hundreds of miles away?

the mexicans who know how to swim.... hmmm actually they probably don't- atleast not the ones you are thinking of. the ones you are thinking of are forgotten by their own government and their neighbors (in fact their neighbors hate them - because only a neighbor that hates you would laugh at your misfortune) these people are desperate. Why else would they cross the border into a land they know does not want them, braving hate, prejudice and bunch of other goodies, so they can send money back to their loved ones they haven't seen for years.

It sounds a lot like stories from Ellis Island. So just because you think that you are better than another human being- it doesn't really mean anything, except that you may appear to be a fool at times. but that's okay, we are all fools sometimes. so peace be with you, I don't mean to offend- only open your eyes (and if we're both lucky your heart too)
shr3dd
ilibrium wrote:
Somehow I don't think Kanye West qualifies as a reliable source for information on the president's personal beliefs...


Sarcasm.

earthchild, the mexicans coming in because they have been "forgotten" by their own government may have good intentions, but are still breaking the law. I think people who hire them should have to pay fines and have contracts/licenses revoked. Ellis Island was a place that immigrants could come in LEGALLY which is fine as long as it doesn't overwhelm the natural born population. I don't really care why the Mexicans cross our border, if they do it illegally they need to be punished and sent back. Is it the USA's fault that Vicente Fox is a shitty leader? Is it our fault that they suffer? No, it's not. The American tax-payers are paying a high price due to the illegals, and as for me, I'm tired of it. If they want a better life so bad then they should do something about their own government not mooch off of our country. If you're reading this and you're an illegal immigrant in the US. Get the hell back to your own country.
S3nd K3ys
shr3dd wrote:
...
earthchild, the mexicans coming in because they have been "forgotten" by their own government may have good intentions, but are still breaking the law. ...

The American tax-payers are paying a high price due to the illegals...


They are paying an extremely high price. It's staggering when you think about the numbers involved.


From the Center for Immigration Studies

Quote:
Among the findings:

*

Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.
*

Among the largest federal costs: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).
*

If illegal aliens were legalized and began to pay taxes and use services like legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual fiscal deficit at the federal level would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total federal deficit of $29 billion.
*

With nearly two-third of illegals lacking a high school diploma, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments — not their legal status or their unwillingness to work.
*

Amnesty increases costs because illegals would still be largely unskilled, and thus their tax payments would continue to be very modest, but once legalized they would be able to access many more government services.
*

The fact that legal immigrants with little schooling are a fiscal drain on federal coffers does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a drain. Many legal immigrants are highly skilled.
*

Because many of the costs are due to their U.S.-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth, barring illegals themselves from federal programs will not significantly reduce costs.
*

Although they create a net drain on the federal government, the average illegal household pays more than $4,200 a year in federal taxes, for a total of nearly $16 billion.
*

However, they impose annual costs of more than $26.3 billion, or about $6,950 per illegal household.
*

About 43 percent, or $7 billion, of the federal taxes illegals pay go to Social Security and Medicare.
*

Employers do not see the costs associated with less-educated immigrant workers because the costs are spread out among all taxpayers.


Another very disturbing fact on this matter is that, even though 95% of ALL outstanding warrents for homicide are for illegal aliens, the police basically can't do anything about it!

Quote:
The LAPD’s ban on immigration enforcement is replicated in immigrant-heavy localities across the country — in New York, Chicago, Austin, San Diego, and Houston, for example. These so-called "sanctuary policies" generally prohibit a city’s employees, including the police, from reporting immigration violations to federal authorities.

...

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the bloody 18th Street Gang in California is illegal (estimated membership: 20,000); police officers say the proportion is undoubtedly much greater. The gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complicated drug distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and is responsible for an assault or robbery every day in Los Angeles County. The gang has dramatically expanded its numbers over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, a vast proportion
illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

• The leadership of the Columbia Li’l Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former Assistant U.S. Attorney Luis Li. Frank "Pancho Villa" Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

earthchild
blame, blame, blame, blame. Have you ever tried being happy with and grateful for the tremendous abundance and beauty you are lucky enough to be part of? Trust me, it is really refreshing.
Or are you afraid "they" are going to take it away from you? relax.
All I am interested in is that injustice and greed fade away. And am I doing more than just sitting here complaining? you bet.
shr3dd
Do you think we are sitting here complaining? I am voting for people who will make changes for the better concerning this topic, and am encouraging everyone to write their representatives expressing how big of a problem illegal immigration really is. Blame SHOULD be placed where blame is due. I am happy and grateful that I live in a country such as this. I believe in the Constitution and I strongly believe it should be upheld (hence why I'm not a democrat). I'm not afraid of any illegal taking away what I have. I know that there are a lot of Americans like me in that if the threat of that every happening was shown then the citizens would take matters in their own hands. Then they'd get jailed for protecting their country on the homefront.
S3nd K3ys
earthchild wrote:
blame, blame, blame, blame. Have you ever tried being happy with and grateful for the tremendous abundance and beauty you are lucky enough to be part of? Trust me, it is really refreshing.
Or are you afraid "they" are going to take it away from you? relax.
All I am interested in is that injustice and greed fade away. And am I doing more than just sitting here complaining? you bet.


Why is it you're trying to justify the BILLIONS they're costing US citizens, not to mention the 95% of felony warrents for homicide are for illegals?
earthchild
S3nd K3ys, I see what you are trying to say, but it is much more complicated than that. The US has its hands dirty in almost every government in one way or another. keep searching, you'll find it. I wish it wasn't the case because I like to look for the best in people - but I do believe it goes all the way to the top. You want to think about drugs and their influence on gang warfare- who do you think trained the militants who support the drug cartels in Colombia, who are connected to gang bosses in prison and who are connected to the CIA - which leads right to the US governement, and yes you've got it - right to the US tax payer. If you think I'm making it up - check for yourself "School of the Americas" -torture classes for the enraged and unreasonable south american.
it looks so simple - but there are piles and piles of cover up and propaganda - so is it our fault? actually it is.
S3nd K3ys
I'm a post ahead of you, but I'll continue. Wink

earthchild wrote:
S3nd K3ys, I see what you are trying to say, but it is much more complicated than that. The US has its hands dirty in almost every government in one way or another. keep searching, you'll find it. I wish it wasn't the case because I like to look for the best in people - but I do believe it goes all the way to the top. You want to think about drugs and their influence on gang warfare- who do you think trained the militants who support the drug cartels in Colombia, who are connected to gang bosses in prison and who are connected to the CIA - which leads right to the US governement, and yes you've got it - right to the US tax payer. If you think I'm making it up - check for yourself "School of the Americas" -torture classes for the enraged and unreasonable south american.


While I agree that the US trained militants in Columbia, I don't think it was to promote illegal drug use in the US. I also don't believe that has much to do with the illegal alien problem we face right now, but more to do with the drug problem facing the entire world, not just the US.

What is your belief on illegal aliens? Do you think they should be freely allowed to enter this country?
earthchild
so when was the last time you got a bill from the us gov't saying okay it's time to pay up boys. those mexicans are gonna cost you $200...

let's be realistic. tell me exactly how these so called "illegals" have affected you.

okay, now lets suppose they have affected you. That's only one side of the story. Now I'd like you to cross the border and ask them how 'americans' have affected them. I'm sure some of them have some equally nasty things to say.

Well what the hell, now we've established that you guys don't like each other... now what do we do? well how bout you poke em in the eye. they poke you back because well da***t that hurt! you poke em back, they poke you.... now you're both blind.

was that fun? did it feel good?

because really what do you want? that is the question here. what is it you want for yourself? because you are the only one who can make it happen. If you keep blaming the 'illegal' mexicans you'll never be happy.
earthchild
typo
earthchild
S3nd K3ys wrote:


What is your belief on illegal aliens? Do you think they should be freely allowed to enter this country?



it is happening right now... so should or shouldn't really doesn't matter to me right now... the question I ask myself is how am I going to react to it. Do I want to throw them back where they came from. No. because in my world that is an indirect form of murder, I would not feel right if I ever "threw them back".[/quote]
S3nd K3ys
earthchild wrote:
so when was the last time you got a bill from the us gov't saying okay it's time to pay up boys.


I get one every two weeks with my paycheck, and every time I buy something from the store. I’ve seen estimates that illegal immigration costs California taxpayers as much as 18 billion dollars per year.

Quote:
let's be realistic. tell me exactly how these so called "illegals" have affected you.


They're not 'so-called illegals', they're 'illegals'.

Illegal immigration affects the costs and availability of health care and social services. They've closed hospitals because they can't afford to keep treating illegal aliens that can't/won't pay. I have two kids, this affects me considerably!

It affects unemployment and labor wages. Something I pay into every two weeks as well.

It affects insurance premiums. I was recently in an accident with an illegal, (his fault), yet MY insurance had to pay for it, and MY insurance premiums went up because of it.

Illegal immigration adds to the burden on our infrastructure. Somewhere between 2.2 and 2.4 million illegal immigrants rely daily on California’s roads, water and energy. This affects my commute EVERY DAY. (I averaged the cost in lost wages sitting in traffic last year, OVER $10,000.00 for me alone!) They are also contributing largly to the energy 'black outs'; more people = more energy used.

There's more but I won't bore you with all of it.


Quote:

okay, now lets suppose they have affected you.


"suppose" they affect me? They DO affect me personally EVERY SINGLE DAY! Rolling Eyes

Quote:
what is it you want for yourself? because you are the only one who can make it happen. If you keep blaming the 'illegal' mexicans you'll never be happy.


I want the borders CLOSED (legal immigration is fine, I have NO problem with that).

I want the police to be able to report illegals to the INS.

I want the hospitals to not have to treat them.

I want the schools to not have to enroll them.

I want them OFF the streets/freeways.

I want them held accountable for their actions.

I want them deported when found.

They are, after all, ILLEGAL.
earthchild
so it's all about you. well I'm glad we got to the truth of the matter.
S3nd K3ys
earthchild wrote:
so it's all about you. well I'm glad we got to the truth of the matter.


You asked how it affected me personally, I told you, now you ridicule me for it?

Rolling Eyes

This is like talking to a brick wall. How about some feedback on my reply besides something childish like "it's all about you".
earthchild
earthchild wrote:

okay, now lets suppose they have affected you. That's only one side of the story. Now I'd like you to cross the border and ask them how 'americans' have affected them.


you completely ignored this element of what I had said and you preceded to mention yourself, over and over. Are you denying that your own personal interests are the reason that drive your political views?

I did not mean it is a ridicule but as a simple fact. It is never my intention to ridicule.

If you feel that you are speaking to a brick wall - I have a feeling it's something of a mirror effect.

If truth threatens you then perhaps you should reconsider things... it is just a gentle suggestion.

Peace, truly peace. I don't wish to take this any further if it is going to hurt your feelings and give you a reason to continue complaining.
S3nd K3ys
earthchild wrote:

okay, now lets suppose they have affected you. That's only one side of the story. Now I'd like you to cross the border and ask them how 'americans' have affected them.

...
you completely ignored this element of what I had said...



I stopped going across the border over a decade ago when a close friend of mine was in an accident there and jailed, his wife dead and they didn't tell him, they killed his dog, impounded his truck, and he had to pay extrordinary amounts of money to get out, even though the accident was NOT his fault, and was severly abused while there, without medical treatment. He is deformed now because of the abuse there.

I don't need to cross the border to figure that out anyway. Americans have given them the ability to sneak into this county, take money, and send it back to their families. The US is funding a very large portion of the lower class there, and Pres. Fox is encouraging them to cross into this country illegally and send money back.

Quote:
and you preceded to mention yourself, over and over. Are you denying that your own personal interests are the reason that drive your political views?


Again, you ASKED HOW IT AFFECTED ME PERSONALLY, THEN YOU RIDICULED ME (TWICE NOW) FOR ANSWERING!

****** pathetic!

And no, I very much affirm that my own personal interests are the reasons that drive my political views on this subject. But it doesn't just affect me, it affects EVERYONE in California, and in fact, most states in the union.

Quote:
If truth threatens you then perhaps you should reconsider things... it is just a gentle suggestion.


The truth does not threaten me, illegal aliens threaten me. People like you that think we should just open the flood gates of immigration with no regard for monitary or legal rammifications threaten me.

Quote:
I don't wish to take this any further if it is going to hurt your feelings and give you a reason to continue complaining.


You mean you don't wish to take this any further because you've run out of arguments and can't debate the subject successfully and are left to resort to dodging facts.

BTW, that's the second time you've used 'truth' in this thread. What exactally do you mean by 'truth' ??
Billy Hill
Quick run down of recent events in this thread;

earthchild asks S3nd K3ys 'exactally how these so called "illegals" have affected you"

S3nd K3ys gave a nicely detailed run-down explaining how the "so called" illegals, (S3nd K3ys is correct, it is not "so called" illegals, they are, in fact, illegal), affect him personally.

earthchild then procedes to mock S3nd K3ys multiple times because it's "all about him", even though earthchild asked specifically how it affected him personally, without having the decency to even reply to what S3nd K3ys said, (in my opinion, earthchild is admitting he is wrong via lack of response, repeatedly, then claiming he will not continue the discussion), then tries to back out of the discussion to avoid further exposure of his own incompitence on the entire matter, claiming the 'truth' scares S3nd K3ys.

The "truth', earthchild, is that S3nd K3ys is correct, illegals HAVE created a large problem in the US and especially on the societies in which they illegally reside/leach/steal/murder/consume.

From what I can see, S3nd K3ys has provided ample justification for his beliefs, which can largly be proven as fact when considering the burden illegal aliens are imposing on this country, including but not limited to taxes, (in the billions no matter how you add it up or try to 'offset' it using the taxes illegals pay, the Social Security they pay into but can't collect etc), health care, economic strain, legal status, (as both illegal aliens AND as felons/fugitives), and resources/roadways (including insurance premiums, transportation, pollution, power shortages etc etc).

It's my bet that earthchild does not reply because he is embarressed and really got worked over in this thread, though he will keep reading this thread as it progresses.
earthchild
S3nd K3ys,

I do believe I owe you an apology. I feel very strongly about protecting all people on Earth - it has never mattered to me what country or culture they say they are from. If someone was trying to attack you I would try to defend you just as vehemently as I do the people across the US/Mexican border- but that doesn't give me a good reason to patronize. so I apologize.

rereading the messages a few hours later - i can also see that what I thought were a gentle statements sound like a very sharp tongue on screen, and actually some comments are on the rude side. So for that I also apologize.

I still believe that we should help our people, and to me our people means the people of Earth - all of them. I realize I am still one of the few who feels this way. It doesn't matter whether you think I am right or wrong, weak or strong... in my heart of hearts that is right for me.

I'm learning to respect that you must adhere to what you feel is right for you.

maybe we'll catch each other on the forum again... blessings and all the best wishes to you and those you love.
S3nd K3ys
earthchild wrote:
S3nd K3ys,

I do believe I owe you an apology. I feel very strongly about protecting all people on Earth - it has never mattered to me what country or culture they say they are from. If someone was trying to attack you I would try to defend you just as vehemently as I do the people across the US/Mexican border- but that doesn't give me a good reason to patronize. so I apologize.

rereading the messages a few hours later - i can also see that what I thought were a gentle statements sound like a very sharp tongue on screen, and actually some comments are on the rude side. So for that I also apologize.

I still believe that we should help our people, and to me our people means the people of Earth - all of them. I realize I am still one of the few who feels this way. It doesn't matter whether you think I am right or wrong, weak or strong... in my heart of hearts that is right for me.

I'm learning to respect that you must adhere to what you feel is right for you.

maybe we'll catch each other on the forum again... blessings and all the best wishes to you and those you love.


Apology accepted. I understand where you're coming from, as I am somewhat of a 'hippy' too. You'd never really guess considering I don't think like most. (I'm a bit more aware of what's going on around me and around the world and try to accept it and deal with it the way it is, not as I want it to be.)

BUT... As I said, illegals have caused severe monetary, social, health and other problems in my state, and has effected me personally on many levels.

Last night Fox News had a special on this very subject. Some cliff-notes:

Over 700,000 illegals are processed by the Border Patrol EVERY DAY.

Over 300,000 vehicles EVERY DAY.

Nearly 2,100 miles of border to cover. (South border only)

Over 7,000 deaths a year caused by illegals on the roads. Sad

I really don't have a problem helping people, so long as they abide by the law.

Thanks for having the balls to accept my points for what they are and not dismiss them completely.
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