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Should quality be taken into account for ranking?






Should quality be taken into account for ranking?
Yes, it should
50%
 50%  [ 7 ]
No, it shouldn't
21%
 21%  [ 3 ]
Who cares about ranking anyway?
28%
 28%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 14

zbale
Quality of posts is encouraged, and indeed rewarded by a greater number of points for those posts deemed more valuable.

As writing a quality post takes much longer and much more energy than writing several shorter or simpler posts, and reflects a certain commitment to the standards of the community, do you believe that Frihoster ranking should take into account the quality of the posts, not just their number?

A simple way to do so would be to multiply each post by a factor corresponding to its quality as already measured at the time the message is posted. For instance, instead of adding 1 for each post, the meter could add PointsOfPost/2.5. Thus, a post rated 4 would add 1.6 while a post rated 2 would add 0.8.

(Alternate possibilities of calculation exist).

What do you think? The bottom line is of course the question of what ranking should reflect. I believe quality should be rewarded in the ranking system, as it is in many areas (business, science, art, etc.).
rvec
it would be nice if it where just a switch, but since this would involve loads of hacking into phpbb I think this wouldn't be worth the time.
zbale
Ok, an easier way would be to determine promotion to the next rank according to the overall number of points (accumulated for all the messages posted, regardless of the gradual countdown which determines the current number of points) instead of the number of messages.
rvec
The easiest way would be to have an extra hidden thing like the points and frih (rank points) that users would never see, but the system would use to calculate the ranks.

But even this "easy" way would take hours of coding and the advantage would be minimal, because there are almost no users that have a high rank and have only been making short posts.
ocalhoun
Yes it would be nice if it worked that way, but it's also nearly impossible. Computers aren't very good at determining things like the quality of a post.

You can simply go by the same criteria that the points system uses, but even then, it's easy to make a very low quality post that gets lots of points.


The only way to incorporate it that I see is to add reports/warnings/rule violations into the calculation... But if anybody has a lot of those, they'll probably just get banned before ever getting a high rank.
zbale
Ok, point(s) taken (no pun intended). Was just a thought, doesn't work out, let's move on.
deanhills
zbale wrote:
Quality of posts is encouraged, and indeed rewarded by a greater number of points for those posts deemed more valuable.

As writing a quality post takes much longer and much more energy than writing several shorter or simpler posts, and reflects a certain commitment to the standards of the community, do you believe that Frihoster ranking should take into account the quality of the posts, not just their number?

A simple way to do so would be to multiply each post by a factor corresponding to its quality as already measured at the time the message is posted. For instance, instead of adding 1 for each post, the meter could add PointsOfPost/2.5. Thus, a post rated 4 would add 1.6 while a post rated 2 would add 0.8.

(Alternate possibilities of calculation exist).

What do you think? The bottom line is of course the question of what ranking should reflect. I believe quality should be rewarded in the ranking system, as it is in many areas (business, science, art, etc.).
Although a good idea, from a practical point of view it would be too much hard work relative to the real objective of the point system, which is a means to an end and not an end in itself. To evaluate the quality of a posting will always involve some subjective assessment that could never be covered automatically, and will most certainly will generate enquiries to already a scarce supply of moderators.
inphurno
i guess we could try to recruit moderators just for this but eventually those people would get tired of reading every post, what could be done is a kudos or karma system where people who read the post can give you an extra point, quarter point, five points whatever if they found the post useful.

this would be a lot less complicated and easier to manage since the quality of the post would be voted upon essentially and if some one received to many point it could mean abuse but would probably be because of a good post so not much to check for a moderator. let me know what you guys think!

Inp
deanhills
inphurno wrote:
i guess we could try to recruit moderators just for this but eventually those people would get tired of reading every post, what could be done is a kudos or karma system where people who read the post can give you an extra point, quarter point, five points whatever if they found the post useful.

this would be a lot less complicated and easier to manage since the quality of the post would be voted upon essentially and if some one received to many point it could mean abuse but would probably be because of a good post so not much to check for a moderator. let me know what you guys think!

Inp
Perhaps there would be a great element of subjectivity in this that could lean itself to abuse when there are friends working together. It is a good idea, but probably if implemented it would be more ideal if moderators made the judgement calls for quality kudos.
zbale
inphurno wrote:
[...] what could be done is a kudos or karma system where people who read the post can give you an extra point, quarter point, five points whatever if they found the post useful.


It would be perhaps difficult to avoid abuse indeed (for instance two people systematically voting for each other's posts) but it sounds like a very good idea to me. A number of websites with social voting allow you to vote only once, which may be a step in the direction of avoiding abuse but probably not enough. LinkedIn has the concept of "Best answer" whereby the person who started the post may attribute a special distinction to what he or she believes was the best answer (but again, there is room for abuse in a forum).
Vrythramax
deanhills wrote:
Perhaps there would be a great element of subjectivity in this that could lean itself to abuse when there are friends working together. It is a good idea, but probably if implemented it would be more ideal if moderators made the judgement calls for quality kudos.


Staff already determines the quality of post in account creation. We have to read through the applicants posts and make a determination if there are enough quality posts to warrent a free account. As far as I know this system has never been abused. I can only speak for myself, but I am harder on people I know from real life (yes, there are a number of them here on the forums), I'd deny them just as fast as I would any spammer.

Account creation is done on a case by case basis, to try to adapt that system to adward ranks is just impossible. The forum currently have over 59,000 members, with over 870,000 posts! The time needed to go through each post, and to keep track of where any user stands at any given time...and to have to do the job for free??? Not feasible.
deanhills
Vrythramax wrote:
The forum currently have over 59,000 members, with over 870,000 posts! The time needed to go through each post, and to keep track of where any user stands at any given time...and to have to do the job for free??? Not feasible.
Totally understood. Given that there is so much work, this really has to be a luxury. We're grateful for the hard work and hope there is some fun in it for the moderators too .... Smile.

On a side-note I'm really curious, how active are those 59,000 members as when I'm posting I get the feeling of maybe a hundred or more posters, how many active members are there out of the 59,000 on record? I get the feeling that quite the majority of new members only post a few times, until the novelty of the Website space has worn off, and then we do not hear from them again. I'm puzzled over why they get to stay on as members even when they have only made a few postings? I thought that if we did not post regularly, that our membership would lapse, but am I correct in that you are still counted as a member, you just do not have a Website anymore? Almost like the thread we had under Religion with the Catholic Church for example counting heads even when they are no longer part of the congregation? They don't get to resign their membership and their records cannot be deleted? Smile
Vrythramax
deanhills wrote:
Totally understood. Given that there is so much work, this really has to be a luxury. We're grateful for the hard work and hope there is some fun in it for the moderators too .... Smile.

On a side-note I'm really curious, how active are those 59,000 members as when I'm posting I get the feeling of maybe a hundred or more posters, how many active members are there out of the 59,000 on record? I get the feeling that quite the majority of new members only post a few times, until the novelty of the Website space has worn off, and then we do not hear from them again. I'm puzzled over why they get to stay on as members even when they have only made a few postings? I thought that if we did not post regularly, that our membership would lapse, but am I correct in that you are still counted as a member, you just do not have a Website anymore? Almost like the thread we had under Religion with the Catholic Church for example counting heads even when they are no longer part of the congregation? They don't get to resign their membership and their records cannot be deleted? Smile


Currently all ANY staff member, regardless of rank or duties, receives for his/her time is an email account, a promise that our hosting is assured, and the rank of course. Staff receive no extra points or FRIH$'s for posting.

It really doesn't matter if the majority of the membership is active or inactive at any given time. Staffing would have to be made for the potential that they could all be online at the same time or in rapid succession. If only 1% of the total membership were to come online and make one request each per hour for one day (590*24) , that would total 14,160 requests that would need filling. Granted the possibility of that happening is extremely slim...it still has to be taken into consideration for planning purposes.

The hosting and forum membership is linked true, but membership in the forum is not dependent on hosting...so why would we even want to delete any forum memberships? Hosting accounts on the other hand need to be weeded out regularly to free up space for new users.
Blaster
Let me just say a thing or two here. Making a hidden points system for ranking would be hard to Incorporated with this many people already. Second i like the way it is set up now... spamming will be taken care of by the moderators.
rvec
Vrythramax wrote:

Currently all ANY staff member, regardless of rank or duties, receives for his/her time is an email account, a promise that our hosting is assured, and the rank of course. Staff receive no extra points or FRIH$'s for posting.

We get an email account Shocked when did we get that?
deanhills
Vrythramax wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Totally understood. Given that there is so much work, this really has to be a luxury. We're grateful for the hard work and hope there is some fun in it for the moderators too .... Smile.

On a side-note I'm really curious, how active are those 59,000 members as when I'm posting I get the feeling of maybe a hundred or more posters, how many active members are there out of the 59,000 on record? I get the feeling that quite the majority of new members only post a few times, until the novelty of the Website space has worn off, and then we do not hear from them again. I'm puzzled over why they get to stay on as members even when they have only made a few postings? I thought that if we did not post regularly, that our membership would lapse, but am I correct in that you are still counted as a member, you just do not have a Website anymore? Almost like the thread we had under Religion with the Catholic Church for example counting heads even when they are no longer part of the congregation? They don't get to resign their membership and their records cannot be deleted? Smile


Currently all ANY staff member, regardless of rank or duties, receives for his/her time is an email account, a promise that our hosting is assured, and the rank of course. Staff receive no extra points or FRIH$'s for posting.

It really doesn't matter if the majority of the membership is active or inactive at any given time. Staffing would have to be made for the potential that they could all be online at the same time or in rapid succession. If only 1% of the total membership were to come online and make one request each per hour for one day (590*24) , that would total 14,160 requests that would need filling. Granted the possibility of that happening is extremely slim...it still has to be taken into consideration for planning purposes.

The hosting and forum membership is linked true, but membership in the forum is not dependent on hosting...so why would we even want to delete any forum memberships? Hosting accounts on the other hand need to be weeded out regularly to free up space for new users.
Max, hope you know there was no criticism intended here. I'm not sure why you mentioned that staff receive no extra points for posting, as that was not even on my mind. The only part that intrigued me was the overwhelming number of dormant memberships. Think I understand it better now, i.e. membership and hosting are separate from one another.
inphurno
rvec wrote:
Vrythramax wrote:

Currently all ANY staff member, regardless of rank or duties, receives for his/her time is an email account, a promise that our hosting is assured, and the rank of course. Staff receive no extra points or FRIH$'s for posting.

We get an email account Shocked when did we get that?


i didn't know about this either, where and how can we access this email account?
rvec
inphurno wrote:
rvec wrote:
Vrythramax wrote:

Currently all ANY staff member, regardless of rank or duties, receives for his/her time is an email account, a promise that our hosting is assured, and the rank of course. Staff receive no extra points or FRIH$'s for posting.

We get an email account Shocked when did we get that?


i didn't know about this either, where and how can we access this email account?
staff only Wink
ocalhoun
rvec wrote:
inphurno wrote:
rvec wrote:
Vrythramax wrote:

Currently all ANY staff member, regardless of rank or duties, receives for his/her time is an email account, a promise that our hosting is assured, and the rank of course. Staff receive no extra points or FRIH$'s for posting.

We get an email account Shocked when did we get that?


i didn't know about this either, where and how can we access this email account?
staff only Wink

You can make an e-mail account with your hosting account though, as many as you like, in fact, though they all have to share the same space for the in-box along with your website.
Bluedoll
Quality of points . . . by Bluedoll

I came here to post and publish
It seems ok to me
Frih had good things not all rubbish
And so I just stayed to see

Little points being consented
And under my name awarded
And a title of sorts imbedded
That changed with time contorted

But now I see approaching me
A name I really don’t like to speak
I simply shutter constantly
That to be there in my title ‘a freak’?
deanhills
Bluedoll wrote:

But now I see approaching me
A name I really don’t like to speak
I simply shutter constantly
That to be there in my title ‘a freak’?

Laughing Laughing Laughing Thanks Bluedoll that is so much on the mark. So much compassion. Hope Bondings sees this. Laughing
Donutey
You could have a "up-rank" and "down-rank" button that would add some subjective amount of Frih when a user decides he/she thinks the post is good/bad quality. Unfortunately, this would probably just degenerate into people voting on what they like and dislike, rather than quality.

Another issue, is all the systems that in this thread can be "gamed" by groups of users (or multiple accounts) to get more $.
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