Should I write the code into 'notepad' and save it that way?
Or
Should I get a HTML editor?
I am fairly new to designing websites and I would like to turn my hand to it. I have been reading up on HTML and JaveScript. I can make pages with pictures that link everywhere and have on mouse over scripts etc.... But, am i wasting my time doing all the code myself?
Neilos
My advice is do not use notepad, but use another text editor that has more than 2 features. I use pspad ( http://www.pspad.com/en/ ) (because it allows to ftp open/save a site's files easily) but there are others, like notepad++ and eclipse
If you can't handle the html tags, use a GUI HTML editor and try to figure it out. I use komposer ( http://kompozer.net/ ) occasionally. The best way, I believe, is to use VIM. Instead of using a GUI, or something equally silly, you can do it without your hands leaving the keyboard (resulting in far faster coding). It might take a while to get used to it, though.
if you already know HTML and CSS you can work on NOTEPAD... but why not use some HTML code editor like COFFEE CUP HTML EDITOR or HOME SITE (it used to come with DREAM WEAVER)?
if you already know HTML it will make your life easier to use some software that has colors for the tags... it doesn't make much of a difference if you don't know HTML...
I use HOME SITE (I bought a license for this awesome software when it was made by ALLAIRE - before Macromedia bought it... and before Adobe bought Macromedia)... and it still works awesome for me...
using notepad would make your code really clean if you know how to code. but using the editors would help you to create web pages easily. I would suggest that you start coding with the notepad when you are beginning. After you become really good at coding by hand then move on to editor so that you can understand what is going on.
| binsmyth wrote: |
| using notepad would make your code really clean if you know how to code. but using the editors would help you to create web pages easily. I would suggest that you start coding with the notepad when you are beginning. After you become really good at coding by hand then move on to editor so that you can understand what is going on. |
This sounds like a good option for me. I'm fairly competent at HTML, I know a bit of javascript and that's about it.
I am diving in at the deepend and am developing existing HTML and javascript skills whilst learning PHP, MySQL and Java all from the ground up... all at the same time. I think scripting them into notepad by myself would deffinately help me learn the commands etc... espescially Java... That's a freaky looking language, never done anything that looks like that before 
Also it took me about 3 hours just to figure out how to compile my Hello World app 
could it be more confusing?!?!?!
Thanks for the responses guys
Neilos | binsmyth wrote: |
| using notepad would make your code really clean if you know how to code. but using the editors would help you to create web pages easily. I would suggest that you start coding with the notepad when you are beginning. After you become really good at coding by hand then move on to editor so that you can understand what is going on. |
.. Forgive me, I have never done this before, but ..
?!?!??!?!??!!?!?!??!
Using a program like Dreamweaver or another WYSIWYG editor is stupid. It really, really is. The most a person should need is a text editor (I use VIM) to create their websites. I started with Dreamweaver, and it was all good and dandy whilst I was a nooblet, but it really is weak and defunct in comparison to a text editor in which you know everything that is going on in your code, with no excess bloat. It also results in you being able to integrate it with PHP and any number of advanced templating systems you can cook up.NOTEPAD NOTEPAD NOTEPAD 
| medesignz wrote: |
| NOTEPAD NOTEPAD NOTEPAD |
oi! oi! oi!before that please plan which site you are going to design and collect the datas also
i use like notepad vecause then if you do something wrong you know you did it and not the pragram than you know whats the last thing you did and you can easily fix the problem yourself and i like it because its cooler to make your own website without any program just you and your scripting so try out notepad and otherwise you can use a editor of course but iprefer notepad ***greetings THE BEAR***
| rockacola wrote: |
| medesignz wrote: | | NOTEPAD NOTEPAD NOTEPAD |
oi! oi! oi! |
AMEN MY BROTHER haha hey there no need to haslle just go get the best free html , php and asp editor its called webcoder and also its lightweight and has help features like giving you the right code and right time, a prebuilt code base for commonly used codes and it has this amaing feature of making php scripts run without a webserver goto
http://nontube.com
and get it there
but better still i say u should get phped from nusphere for free trial and keep downloading and installing it i have the key if you want it though
goto my future website for thing connecting html
http://htmlandphpedit.wadja-africa.org
Have a goodday yall i though it again and i now think that rather than get another programming soft called xlims
pm me and i will give u the download link
[quote="Hogwarts"] | binsmyth wrote: |
Using a program like Dreamweaver or another WYSIWYG editor is stupid. It really, really is. The most a person should need is a text editor (I use VIM) to create their websites. I started with Dreamweaver, and it was all good and dandy whilst I was a nooblet, but it really is weak and defunct in comparison to a text editor in which you know everything that is going on in your code, with no excess bloat. It also results in you being able to integrate it with PHP and any number of advanced templating systems you can cook up. |
For driving a car, you don't have to be able to build an engine. So, i don't agree with the statement that using existing programs is stupid. I makes no use to reinvent the wheel. I know what i'm talking about because i'm programming for over 15 years now. I could program in assembler. That is the purest program language, the cleanest, the fastest, the best. However, it's the least user-friendly one as well. Therfore, new languages have been invented, created in order to make it easier to program, debug and release new applications. Nowadays, open source applications (free for use and distribution) are available all over the web. If I have to develop a new application, first thing I do is search whether an open source or example is available on the web.
This is the same for website building. First of all, there are lots of tools, templates (open source as well) available for creating a website. Yes, you could use a text editor (compare it with the assembler language: it will produce the purest, fastest, ... code) but it will take you days, months, years to create things that probably are already done before. So, why bothering if you totally understand what is going on under the hood. | koen66 wrote: |
| This is the same for website building. First of all, there are lots of tools, templates (open source as well) available for creating a website. Yes, you could use a text editor (compare it with the assembler language: it will produce the purest, fastest, ... code) but it will take you days, months, years to create things that probably are already done before. So, why bothering if you totally understand what is going on under the hood. |
Create a thing already done before? We're talking about coding templates? When did assembly even come into this? I'm already questioning your ability given your inability to correctly name "assembly".
There are innumerable advantages to coding by hand than using a WYSIWYG editor. In addition, I'd be willing to wager that I could code and deploy a template (to, say, Magento) faster than any person on this forum using a WYSIWYG editor, so I can't see how that point is entirely relevant.
Now, to throw off some reasons for this--
- People will (blindly) copy and paste HTML and CSS, without any element of even trying to read or understand this. Besides the quality of code aspects in pasting this code, it means that the user is dependent upon people who code by hand which restricts them to snippets of code that are already made and denying them the opportunity of customizing their sites to the fullest extent. There's also the factor of geniuses who implement several different versions of HTML and XHTML on their site, which almost guarantees that it'll eventually run into a compatibility issue.
- Converting these coded layouts to a deployed template for a dynamically generated website is several hundred times more difficult because it involves browsing, creating and editing HTML in conjunction with the chosen dynamic language. For somebody who's been cruising along using a program that does essentially every line of code for them, this poses a major problem. In addition, WYSIWYG editors will be rendered incapable of editing templates once they've been fragmented into blocks, which are then assembled by the dynamic language (which is something almost unavoidable coding templates for dynamically driven websites, unless you want to create a completely rigid website -- which is bad)
The list goes on! The only valid reasons I can see the use of a WYSIWYG editor to be valid if you're going to make a one or two couple-of-page pure-HTML-and-CSS sites that you're not planning on changing significantly in the future or simply have too much time to waste on your hands. | Hogwarts wrote: |
There are innumerable advantages to coding by hand than using a WYSIWYG editor. In addition, I'd be willing to wager that I could code and deploy a template (to, say, Magento) faster than any person on this forum using a WYSIWYG editor, so I can't see how that point is entirely relevant. |
I'll take that bet! I use DW4 quite often, both in the design and code tabs. I am fully willing to bet that I could code the same template as you, check it for validation, upload, test, and fix any errors. Faster than you in a standard text application. Especially since dreamweaver: closes tags for me (type </ and it finishes the open tag in the correct order), uploads ftp for me(save & upload), and probably most importantly: colors the code so I know if I missed an escape in a php string. Not to mention if I forgot the coding tricks for a certain layout type, dreamweaver has a lot of presets to work with. I can pick my preset quickly, rename with find and replace, and remove anything I don't need.
| Quote: |
Now, to throw off some reasons for this--
People will (blindly) copy and paste HTML and CSS, without any element of even trying to read or understand this. Besides the quality of code aspects in pasting this code, it means that the user is dependent upon people who code by hand which restricts them to snippets of code that are already made and denying them the opportunity of customizing their sites to the fullest extent. There's also the factor of geniuses who implement several different versions of HTML and XHTML on their site, which almost guarantees that it'll eventually run into a compatibility issue.
|
Aren't you kind of associating editing programs with people who copy paste without any real evidence to say we all do? Aside from that, some of us copy and paste other people's code so that we can play with it, learn it, and apply it to our own uses... I fail to see how that would be a problem in any way. Seeing as how you'd learn something from someone else a lot faster than you'd code and tinker it out for yourself.
| Quote: |
Converting these coded layouts to a deployed template for a dynamically generated website is several hundred times more difficult because it involves browsing, creating and editing HTML in conjunction with the chosen dynamic language. For somebody who's been cruising along using a program that does essentially every line of code for them, this poses a major problem. |
How? I cruise along all the time and then go back and edit what I had for php; once again I feel like you're making an unfair stereotype here.
| Quote: |
| In addition, WYSIWYG editors will be rendered incapable of editing templates once they've been fragmented into blocks, which are then assembled by the dynamic language (which is something almost unavoidable coding templates for dynamically driven websites, unless you want to create a completely rigid website -- which is bad) |
To be honest I'm not even sure of the point here... Likely my own fault, but I've never had any trouble loading any kind of template from or into dreamweaver... ever.
| Quote: |
The list goes on! The only valid reasons I can see the use of a WYSIWYG editor to be valid if you're going to make a one or two couple-of-page pure-HTML-and-CSS sites that you're not planning on changing significantly in the future or simply have too much time to waste on your hands. |
What if my site has 50+ pages of absolute seas of code? What if I want to move a file to a new location without breaking the website? How would a simple text editor allow me to find and replace "X line of code" with "Y line of code" for the entire website and all it's pages? Or update all the links and includes for me?
Fact is, while notepad works fine for coding a few things at a time, an editor such as dreamweaver can make the whole thing take less time. Color accented code, memorization of CSS class', seamless CSS editing (drag and drop amongst others), the list of handy tools goes on an on. Even if you wanted to only use dreamweaver to code by hand(which I do a lot!), it will still be faster than notepad. 
On a side note, I suppose you could say dreamweaver is a special exception since it allows you to switch very easily between codeing by hand and codeing by design... | Aredon wrote: |
| Hogwarts wrote: |
There are innumerable advantages to coding by hand than using a WYSIWYG editor. In addition, I'd be willing to wager that I could code and deploy a template (to, say, Magento) faster than any person on this forum using a WYSIWYG editor, so I can't see how that point is entirely relevant. |
I'll take that bet! I use DW4 quite often, both in the design and code tabs. I am fully willing to bet that I could code the same template as you, check it for validation, upload, test, and fix any errors. Faster than you in a standard text application. Especially since dreamweaver: closes tags for me (type </ and it finishes the open tag in the correct order), uploads ftp for me(save & upload), and probably most importantly: colors the code so I know if I missed an escape in a php string. Not to mention if I forgot the coding tricks for a certain layout type, dreamweaver has a lot of presets to work with. I can pick my preset quickly, rename with find and replace, and remove anything I don't need. |
Firstly, might I point out that
- Practically every developer-oriented text editor has source code highlighting (and, effectively, what you're talking about is Dreamweaver's text-editing functionality, with the added bloat of a WYSIWYG in the background). If that's your "most important" argument, you've already lost.
- Using WinSCP or sshfs, you can achieve the "uploads ftp for me", or using SSH to code over (which I do to my laptop, which I've configured as my development server -- although as I just said there are alternatives to this) -- so your save and upload point is void
- Plenty of developer-oriented text can be configured to complete tags automatically for you
- You can get basically every layout "preset" you need from http://www.alistapart.com -- and if you wanted, I'm sure you can save them all in a folder if you're that fussed
| Aredon wrote: |
| Quote: | Now, to throw off some reasons for this--
People will (blindly) copy and paste HTML and CSS, without any element of even trying to read or understand this. Besides the quality of code aspects in pasting this code, it means that the user is dependent upon people who code by hand which restricts them to snippets of code that are already made and denying them the opportunity of customizing their sites to the fullest extent. There's also the factor of geniuses who implement several different versions of HTML and XHTML on their site, which almost guarantees that it'll eventually run into a compatibility issue.
|
Aren't you kind of associating editing programs with people who copy paste without any real evidence to say we all do? Aside from that, some of us copy and paste other people's code so that we can play with it, learn it, and apply it to our own uses... I fail to see how that would be a problem in any way. Seeing as how you'd learn something from someone else a lot faster than you'd code and tinker it out for yourself. |
Now, who's more likely to read the code? Somebody who consistently works in it, or somebody who occasionally peeks at it? Read the real definition of a text editor. Dreamweaver's code view has no more functionality than a several megabyte program. Almost the entire point of Dreamweaver is the "Design" view. | Aredon wrote: |
| Quote: |
Converting these coded layouts to a deployed template for a dynamically generated website is several hundred times more difficult because it involves browsing, creating and editing HTML in conjunction with the chosen dynamic language. For somebody who's been cruising along using a program that does essentially every line of code for them, this poses a major problem. |
How? I cruise along all the time and then go back and edit what I had for php; once again I feel like you're making an unfair stereotype here.
| Quote: | | In addition, WYSIWYG editors will be rendered incapable of editing templates once they've been fragmented into blocks, which are then assembled by the dynamic language (which is something almost unavoidable coding templates for dynamically driven websites, unless you want to create a completely rigid website -- which is bad) |
To be honest I'm not even sure of the point here... Likely my own fault, but I've never had any trouble loading any kind of template from or into dreamweaver... ever. |
Obviously, you've never done any development work for a major framework or a block-oriented template system. Given, that's basically my current profession. Also, I might like to add that the extremely popular (free) (and high quality) ecommerce cart, Magento, requires users to edit XML files constantly to configure the templates. Not something a WYSIWYG editor user could do easily. | Aredon wrote: |
| Quote: |
The list goes on! The only valid reasons I can see the use of a WYSIWYG editor to be valid if you're going to make a one or two couple-of-page pure-HTML-and-CSS sites that you're not planning on changing significantly in the future or simply have too much time to waste on your hands. |
What if my site has 50+ pages of absolute seas of code? What if I want to move a file to a new location without breaking the website? How would a simple text editor allow me to find and replace "X line of code" with "Y line of code" for the entire website and all it's pages? Or update all the links and includes for me?
Fact is, while notepad works fine for coding a few things at a time, an editor such as dreamweaver can make the whole thing take less time. Color accented code, memorization of CSS class', seamless CSS editing (drag and drop amongst others), the list of handy tools goes on an on. Even if you wanted to only use dreamweaver to code by hand(which I do a lot!), it will still be faster than notepad.
On a side note, I suppose you could say dreamweaver is a special exception since it allows you to switch very easily between codeing by hand and codeing by design... |
I believe you're making a generalization here 
Firstly, Notepad is not the only text editor in the world. Give Notepad++ or Vim a go. Seriously. Perhaps even Eclipse, if you're feeling adventurous!
Secondly, you can search throughout and replace anything on your entire site using the use of even core Linux programs. This is faster than anything possibly achieved by Dreamweaver, because it's done entirely on the server! That means that there's no downloading each file to scan it. Unless you're talking about a "replace in all open files" utility, in which there are plenty of text editors that do that.
Thirdly, if you can't remember the name of the CSS classes and ids you create, you're doing it wrong. You should have a rigid structure that you should follow to create these names, otherwise you're going to end up with illogical spaghetti-code
Oh, and every program I mentioned in this post is completely free! Not several hundred dollars or piracy, which I assume was most of this forum's user's avenue to get Dreamweaver 
Seriously, give the free alternatives a go. You sound like the kind of person that should be using a text editor given that's basically the only functionality of Dreamweaver you mentioned. | Hogwarts wrote: |
Firstly, might I point out that
- Practically every developer-oriented text editor has source code highlighting (and, effectively, what you're talking about is Dreamweaver's text-editing functionality, with the added bloat of a WYSIWYG in the background). If that's your "most important" argument, you've already lost.
- Using WinSCP or sshfs, you can achieve the "uploads ftp for me", or using SSH to code over (which I do to my laptop, which I've configured as my development server -- although as I just said there are alternatives to this) -- so your save and upload point is void
- Plenty of developer-oriented text can be configured to complete tags automatically for you
- You can get basically every layout "preset" you need from http://www.alistapart.com -- and if you wanted, I'm sure you can save them all in a folder if you're that fussed
|
So rather then have all these features in one program you'd rather I... Have one program for editing, one for ftp upload, use a site for validation, use a site for templates, and open each browser manually to test?
I think I'd rather... Edit, Shift+Ctrl+U, F12, alt+tab back to the editor. Rinse repeat.
| Quote: |
Now, who's more likely to read the code? Somebody who consistently works in it, or somebody who occasionally peeks at it? Read the real definition of a text editor. |
Well obviously the person coding it as text would read it, but I fail to even see the point of that question as it bears to this argument. Especially since if you take a portion of someone else's code and learn from it.. you're obviously going to be working on it "consistently" to get it working, and then more to use it again (perhaps differently) later.
| Quote: |
| Dreamweaver's code view has no more functionality than a several megabyte program. Almost the entire point of Dreamweaver is the "Design" view |
Correct, the code view isn't very large, but again why use a separate program? I must also note that they key word here is "almost". Dreamweaver does a lot more than just design view, and saying that design view is the only point of the program is like saying water's only purpose is for drinking. Just because it's a large part of the whole, doesn't make it the only part.
| Quote: |
| Obviously, you've never done any development work for a major framework or a block-oriented template system. Given, that's basically my current profession. Also, I might like to add that the extremely popular (free) (and high quality) ecommerce cart, Magento, requires users to edit XML files constantly to configure the templates. Not something a WYSIWYG editor user could do easily. |
Dreamweaver handles XML files just fine, but that really doesn't mean anyone can code it. I should probably clarify something here... I'm not saying that people should only be using WYSIWYG programs; only that they are a huge help to people getting started who want to learn the code, and that they are very handy in a pinch. I was also disagreeing strongly with your suggestion that using them was "very very stupid". You're perfectly welcome to your opinion though.
| Quote: |
| I believe you're making a generalization here |
Generalizations ARE pretty common when you use an example... such as notepad as a text editor.
| Quote: |
| Secondly, you can search throughout and replace anything on your entire site using the use of even core Linux programs. This is faster than anything possibly achieved by Dreamweaver, because it's done entirely on the server! |
Except I keep copies of everything on my hard rive, and there's really no way you can search a server with Linux faster than I can text search a lump of files on my 7200RPM hardrive... Dreamweaver keeps a local set and a remote set of files, you operate from your local files and upload to the remote. At no point are you pulling from the server to drop code in. You open your file, code some more, and then upload. If multiple people are using the files it uses a "check out" system to ensure that the file is always up to date and changes aren't made to something you're already working on.
| Quote: |
| That means that there's no downloading each file to scan it. Unless you're talking about a "replace in all open files" utility, in which there are plenty of text editors that do that. |
Downloading each file from the server to scan it and replace would be incredibly stupid and inefficient, and no I'm not talking about replace in all open files. I'm talking about ctrl + f, replace all in: [Local Site], save, upload all changes when I'm done codeing for that day.
| Quote: |
Thirdly, if you can't remember the name of the CSS classes and ids you create, you're doing it wrong. You should have a rigid structure that you should follow to create these names, otherwise you're going to end up with illogical spaghetti-code |
That would also reqiure that I not be lazy, which is not a concept I enjoy . I'd much rather type class=" and one letter and have a dropdown of everything in my CSS attached to this page that starts with that letter, arrow once or twice and hit enter, and let it close the quotes for me. Plus with CS4 I can just click the attached CSS sheet, scroll through the classes with no atributes (or search if it's a monster file), and then edit where I want.
^^^^ select anything included in the main file.
^^^^ browse specific classes or ids, click to jump to them.
| Quote: |
| Oh, and every program I mentioned in this post is completely free! Not several hundred dollars or piracy, which I assume was most of this forum's user's avenue to get Dreamweaver |
I have all of CS4 for free! A friend gave it to me...
Last edited by Aredon on Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in totalIf you are a professonal webmaster, i thinks you can onlu use notepad ++, i thinks that is good enough for you. but if you want to design faster and more exactly, i think you sould choice a code software
For example: adobe dreamware, or HTML editor ....
If you build website with PHP code, ZEND is the best.
| Aredon wrote: |
| Hogwarts wrote: | Firstly, might I point out that
- Practically every developer-oriented text editor has source code highlighting (and, effectively, what you're talking about is Dreamweaver's text-editing functionality, with the added bloat of a WYSIWYG in the background). If that's your "most important" argument, you've already lost.
- Using WinSCP or sshfs, you can achieve the "uploads ftp for me", or using SSH to code over (which I do to my laptop, which I've configured as my development server -- although as I just said there are alternatives to this) -- so your save and upload point is void
- Plenty of developer-oriented text can be configured to complete tags automatically for you
- You can get basically every layout "preset" you need from http://www.alistapart.com -- and if you wanted, I'm sure you can save them all in a folder if you're that fussed
|
So rather then have all these features in one program you'd rather I... Have one program for editing, one for ftp upload, use a site for validation, use a site for templates, and open each browser manually to test?
I think I'd rather... Edit, Shift+Ctrl+U, F12, alt+tab back to the editor. Rinse repeat. |
No. You SSH in to the server. The same as you'd log in to FTP. From there you type in "vim FILENAME". The file opens. You make changes. You save them. They're already on the server (because that's where vim is)! The same applies to Notepad++ in conjunction to WinSCP (Or, if you didn't want to be as customizable as I am, using the FTP plugin for Notepad++!). Open a file, it opens in Notepad++, you save it, it automatically uploads. I fail to see where that's more complicated? Dreamweaver's FTP client is crap to begin with, if they haven't updated it since CS4's release version. Using a dedicated FTP client means that I don't need to start up a bloaty several hundred megabyte program if I want to make changes to say, an individual image. Also, using WinSCP, it can be configured to open all images in Fireworks or whatever graphics application you use. Isn't that nifty?
So, effectively to save and view your file, Ctrl + S, alt-tab to Firefox, press F5. That's not all that hard now, is it? From there, you can use Firebug, Dragonfly, Webdev Toolbar. All much more advanced debugging tools than Dreamweaver provides-- straight in the browser!
I don't find myself using Alistapart often at all -- I use it for three-column templates, that's it. Using a reference, occassionally, isn't bad. If you don't have your web browser open when making a website, you're already doing it wrong.
| Aredon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Now, who's more likely to read the code? Somebody who consistently works in it, or somebody who occasionally peeks at it? Read the real definition of a text editor. |
Well obviously the person coding it as text would read it, but I fail to even see the point of that question as it bears to this argument. Especially since if you take a portion of someone else's code and learn from it.. you're obviously going to be working on it "consistently" to get it working, and then more to use it again (perhaps differently) later. |
Are you really learning from it? Lots of people just copy and paste. There isn't any learning involved there. Now, the coder gains understanding of it, and thus can apply it to other situations or adapt it better. The typical WYSIWYG user doesn't, for either.
| Aredon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Dreamweaver's code view has [i]no more functionality than a several megabyte program. Almost the entire point of Dreamweaver is the "Design" view |
Correct, the code view isn't very large, but again why use a separate program? I must also note that they key word here is "almost". Dreamweaver does a lot more than just design view, and saying that design view is the only point of the program is like saying water's only purpose is for drinking. Just because it's a large part of the whole, doesn't make it the only part. |
Thank you, genius. I used to use it. Yes, Dreamweaver does do more than the design view, but that's all it's good for. Seriously! You can use it's bundleware AJAX generation (which .. is incredibly bad) and bloat your site to the brim, or just write your own using the Mootools or jquery libraries, to a greater degree of customization! Given that you're already using a library, which you can change at your whim, it's not going to take long! The code's there, you just apply it and change it however you want! It even comes with documentation for understanding it.
Just because it's the largest part of the whole does make it the most important part. If you're not using that, just code the damned thing. There's no other 'unique' functionality that a WYSIWYG provides.
| Aredon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Obviously, you've never done any development work for a major framework or a block-oriented template system. Given, that's basically my current profession. Also, I might like to add that the extremely popular (free) (and high quality) ecommerce cart, Magento, requires users to edit XML files constantly to configure the templates. Not something a WYSIWYG editor user could do easily. |
Dreamweaver handles XML files just fine, but that really doesn't mean anyone can code it. I should probably clarify something here... I'm not saying that people should only be using WYSIWYG programs; only that they are a huge help to people getting started who want to learn the code, and that they are very handy in a pinch. I was also disagreeing strongly with your suggestion that using them was "very very stupid". You're perfectly welcome to your opinion though. |
Notepad can handle XML files just fine, too. That doesn't mean it does it particularly well. Dreamweaver's XML system is terrible, except from the code view, which basically negates the purpose of not using a text editor, such as Notepad++, for it.
| Aredon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Secondly, you can search throughout and replace anything on your entire site using the use of even core Linux programs. This is faster than anything possibly achieved by Dreamweaver, because it's done entirely on the server! |
Except I keep copies of everything on my hard rive, and there's really no way you can search a server with Linux faster than I can text search a lump of files on my 7200RPM hardrive... Dreamweaver keeps a local set and a remote set of files, you operate from your local files and upload to the remote. At no point are you pulling from the server to drop code in. You open your file, code some more, and then upload. If multiple people are using the files it uses a "check out" system to ensure that the file is always up to date and changes aren't made to something you're already working on. |
And? You're keeping them on your local computer-- I'm talking about on a remote server here. If you wanted, you could use GREP on your local computer too! Given that it's entirely on the server, you don't need to continually synchronize a local and remote copy. If multiple people are working on the same files in development at work, we just use SVN! It merges the changes automatically, and means that if we screw anything up we can just "svn revert FILENAME", which returns it to the state it was prior to our edits. It's almost a wonder why major applications and frameworks, such as phpBB, Symfony, Code-Igniter and Magento use SVN instead of Dreamweaver's system.
In addition, the program doing the searching is being run by the server. Given that servers are generally extremely fast machines on lightweight operating systems, I don't doubt that grep would search much faster.
| Aredon wrote: |
| Quote: | | That means that there's no downloading each file to scan it. Unless you're talking about a "replace in all open files" utility, in which there are plenty of text editors that do that. |
Downloading each file from the server to scan it and replace would be incredibly stupid and inefficient, and no I'm not talking about replace in all open files. I'm talking about ctrl + f, replace all in: [Local Site], save, upload all changes when I'm done codeing for that day. |
You've already lost that one. By using the find and replace utilities on the server, that means you don't need to upload them, at all! They're already there.
| Aredon wrote: |
| Hogwarts wrote: | | Thirdly, if you can't remember the name of the CSS classes and ids you create, you're doing it wrong. You should have a rigid structure that you should follow to create these names, otherwise you're going to end up with illogical spaghetti-code |
That would also reqiure that I not be lazy, which is not a concept I enjoy . I'd much rather type class=" and one letter and have a dropdown of everything in my CSS attached to this page that starts with that letter, arrow once or twice and hit enter, and let it close the quotes for me. Plus with CS4 I can just click the attached CSS sheet, scroll through the classes with no atributes (or search if it's a monster file), and then edit where I want. |
Hm. And in Vim, I can just type a question mark followed by the CSS class/ID I'm looking for, and I'm there. Please, let me remind you again, I used to use Dreamweaver. CS4, even.
| Aredon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Oh, and every program I mentioned in this post is completely free! Not several hundred dollars or piracy, which I assume was most of this forum's user's avenue to get Dreamweaver |
I have all of CS4 for free! A friend gave it to me... |
Oh, so he did the pirating? Technically, being a user of pirated software is the same as downloading it -.-I'm sure Neilos is already lost and went somewhere more interesting then waiting for conclusion between Hogwarts and Aredon... 
As much as I have my point of views and agree with both to certain extend.. I'm not gonna get between you 2, so........ BRING ME SOME POP CORNS Dreamweaver would be a excellent choice. One of the best out there and the only one I use.
http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/ If you intend to learn scripting, I believe notepad is the best. BUT if you are talking about creating a website, I doubt, you'd hardly be able to complete a good website just with notepad.
I started learning scripts using notepad. Then I moved to FrontPage and Dreamweaver. That was still learning. When it comes to develop real websites the productivity, flexibility and professional looking sites counts. Now this is the time you need to look for some Content Management System such as Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal etc.
If you need to design a website that is different than all the existing sites, You might need to go to DreamWeaver again and start coding. If the purpose of your website is general, you need to learn how to use CMS, which CMS and how to obtain Scripts, incorporate them in your website.
Everything from scratch will never take you up to the horizon where you can start flying.
| Neilos wrote: |
Should I write the code into 'notepad' and save it that way?
Or
Should I get a HTML editor?
I am fairly new to designing websites and I would like to turn my hand to it. I have been reading up on HTML and JaveScript. I can make pages with pictures that link everywhere and have on mouse over scripts etc.... But, am i wasting my time doing all the code myself?
Neilos |
writing in note pad is not a good option try some php editor, if you are computer science student you would be knowing about netbeans or eclipse ide , they provide a good environment.In my personal opinion, I think it would be better to start off with a program such as Dreamweaver.
I am fairly new to HTML, but I have some experience.
| tukun2009manit wrote: |
| Neilos wrote: | Should I write the code into 'notepad' and save it that way?
Or
Should I get a HTML editor?
I am fairly new to designing websites and I would like to turn my hand to it. I have been reading up on HTML and JaveScript. I can make pages with pictures that link everywhere and have on mouse over scripts etc.... But, am i wasting my time doing all the code myself?
Neilos |
writing in note pad is not a good option try some php editor, if you are computer science student you would be knowing about netbeans or eclipse ide , they provide a good environment. |
If you were a computer science student you would also know that they don't provide any significant benefit when writing in interpreted langauges I used to be using Notepad.
But when I came to the point that I needed to have really nested php code, the tab indent just became way too high for me.
Now I use Notepad++. It works great for me, and it is indeed much easier with syntax highlighting.
where can one find Notepad++
