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Is it possible to live forever?





Neilos
Is it possible to live forever?

What does it mean to grow old and die? Can we overcome this process and hence forth live forever?

Neilos
ocalhoun
Of course it's possible. We don't have the technology for it yet though.

Though, actually, there is a chance of you suddenly being killed in some sort of accident. (hit by a bus, hit by a meteor, hit by an explosion caused by half of your chair spontaneously turning into antimatter, et cetera) This chance cannot be reduced to 0%. Therefore, if you live forever, you're 100% certain to meet an end like this sooner or later.

For example:
You're very careful, so you've reduced these possibilities down to .0001% per year.
In 2 years, that probability becomes .0002%
In 10: .001%
In 100: .01%
In 10,000: 1% (So there's a 1% chance that you'd be dead after 10,000 years)
In 1,000,000: 100% (So, after a million years, it's almost a sure thing that you would have been killed by an accident. (Given a .000001 per year deadly accident rate))

If you can make accidents less likely, that makes it more likely that you'll live longer, but there's no way you could reduce that probability to 0%.
BinahZ
I think that is a question that there are few absolutes related to. One is the fact that our bodies over time corrupt and die. But the essence of who we are, well where does that go? Is there more to us than the physiology we present to the world? The nishmat-chayim ( soul of life) is needed in Genesis to create the nefesh-chayah ( the living being) Adam. The soul when it is within the body is called the tzelem Elohim or the state of existance that connects the physical body with the soul. Nefesh, ruach, neshama, chaya and yechida are the 5 levels of the soul within Judaism, the last of which the yechida is thought to never totally separate from G-d. Therefore from this perspective we can never truly completely die. Nephesh is the lowest level of the soul, this is the one we are aware of and deal with in the physical world. While this post deals with a "spiritual" answer to a physiologically based question, they are innately intertwined and cannot be separated. Science has no answer as to the absorption of the life force at death, even science requires faith. So we choose where we place our faith. Free will to choose is a wonderful thing. Very Happy
Bikerman
Yep, all well and good, but doesn't really belong in the science section. Basically this area is for discussion of scientific hypothesis/theory, not untestable metaphysics/religion.
If you can suggest a way to test this 'hypothesis' then fine, we can discuss it. If not then it belongs in the religion/philosophy forum, not the science area.
Neilos
Quote:
A Russian theorist Alexei Olovnikov was the first to recognize (1971) the problem of how chromosomes could replicate right to the tip, as such was impossible with replication in a 3’ to 5’ direction. To solve this and to accommodate Leonard Hayflick’s idea of limited somatic cell division, Olovnikov suggested that DNA sequences would be lost in every replicative phase until they reached a critical level, at which point cell division would stop


Cells can only replicate a certain number of times due to the shortening of telomeres. Can we overcome the process of cell deteriation? Slow it down? Or increase the length of telomeres (perhaps through genetic modification)

Quote:
Damage to DNA, protein cross-linking and other changes have been attributed to free radicals. Over time, this damage accumulates and causes us to experience aging.


Free Radicals are produced by cells when they create energy (This is why anti-oxidents are good for us). Can we isolate the free radicals that are causing harm without snaring the ones that are helping to sustain our life?

I fail to see why this question doesn't belong here. I intend to discuss the theories for why we grow old. What science has been formulated to uncover the process and how might we 'sneak' a way round it. Let's face it, I don't want to look old when I get there! But I certainly don't want to look like Jackie Stallone after I try to stay young!!!

Neilos
chatrack
It will be possible one day when brain transplantation is possible.
You will remember why WE keep brain of great persons still safely
chiragpatnaik
Neilos wrote:

Cells can only replicate a certain number of times due to the shortening of telomeres. Can we overcome the process of cell deteriation? Slow it down? Or increase the length of telomeres (perhaps through genetic modification)


or through repetitive gene therapy. longer telomeres will not help. they WILL run out (so to speak).

one way could be go into the human genetic structure and modify it in such a manner that the telomeres are carried on into the next division.

Do remember that some forms of amoeba are strictly speaking immortal. (because they divide till eternity).

Of course they are much simpler genetically, so the challenge is much bigger. But hypothetically speaking, given sufficient advances in genetic engineering, why not. Whether we will still call ourselves human after that is another matter.
ocalhoun
chiragpatnaik wrote:
Whether we will still call ourselves human after that is another matter.

Of course you wouldn't be human... Humans don't live forever.

Why do people have such a problem with not being human?
Bluedoll
Tobe or not tobe . . . by Bluedoll


I always just considered aging to be how well cells could maintain a healthy diet. Natural aging and death are always a result of the ability to reproduce cells which is attributed in turn to nutrient consumption. Vitamin and mineral deficiencies is the common characteristic of all natural deaths.

Free radicals are naturally produced by the body to combat disease and unless there is an extreme imbalance, this is a healthy activity to sustainable living. Also the ability for cells to utilize chain-breaking antioxidant nutrients are necessary for growth and reproduction. Therefore what inhibits a cell from having a healthy diet might be the question for longivity?

Shortening of telomeres seems to be natural protective process also as can be observed in abnormal cancer cells where it does not occur. So I am not sure modifications in any of these areas is indeed possible for successful results or even desired?


_____________________________________________________________



To understand life and to understand if life was designed to go on forever or not has been in the past and will most liking be a lively question in the near future. To consider this question is to consider what is normal by design? What is natural and normal to me would be a very important perspective to work from!

It is impossible at some point not to at least consider what is normal in the sense that at least one generic blueprint is possible for life. Yes, that could lead to philosophical and even religious discussion.

I for one believe that life in the universe is attributed from one unique source (God) and that knowledge in this area can only enhance the way we think about life and science. Separating subjects from another can be advantageous or disadvantageous depending on how the users like to organize information.

To clarify, what I mean is that points can be made more clear by discussing one topic at a time or it can be in some cases inhibiting to separate them - like being told not to talk free radicals because that belongs in the chemistry section and not the biological section.

Often language and mathematics, science and philosophies do merge. Perhaps a separate section for the topic "where do things go?" would be in order.
Indi
Bluedoll wrote:
Free radicals are naturally produced by the body to combat disease and unless there is an extreme imbalance, this is a healthy activity to sustainable living. Also the ability for cells to utilize chain-breaking antioxidant nutrients are necessary for growth and reproduction. Therefore what inhibits a cell from having a healthy diet might be the question for longivity?

Shortening of telomeres seems to be natural protective process also as can be observed in abnormal cancer cells where it does not occur. So I am not sure modifications in any of these areas is indeed possible for successful results or even desired?

Certainly it's possible. What you're thinking about - the Hayflick Limit which describes how many generations a cell can reproduce before shortened telomeres start leading to cancer cells, and free oxygen radicals damaging cells - both of these things are easily prevented or repaired in theory. We lack the precision tools necessary to actually make the repairs... but we do know that these things are not inevitable. Stem cells have no Hayflick Limit - they can reproduce as many times as necessary - and if free radicals are causing too much cell damage just introduce an antioxidant to take care of the radicals, then use stem cells to replace the damaged cells.

In other words, we know that these things are possible - and we can even witness them in action in certain situations (stem cells, and there are some cases where telomeres lengthen, and there are biologically immortal organisms). They can be done, we just need to make better tools to make them happen.

Now, is it desired? That's a tricky question. If we developed immortality - or even just greatly extended life spans - that would force us to make massive changes to our society, worldwide. Some hard choices will have to be made, such as enforced sterilizations on people that choose to have life extensions... and what are we going to do with dangerous criminals? Denying them immortality when anyone else can have it is not really different than sentencing them to death. You might as well just execute them summarily rather than lock them up to die slowly over 20 years. And should the sentence for someone that has murdered someone that has chosen immortality be greater than for someone who has murdered someone who hasn't? If immortality treatments have to begin in childhood, should we allow parents to refuse them for their children on religious grounds? Etc. etc. Our society, and our philosophies, really aren't ready to handle immortality.

But we should go for it anyway. Even if immortality destroys the structure of our society... ****** it. We can rebuild societies. We can't replace people.
ocalhoun
Indi wrote:
We can't replace people.

^.^

To (mis)quote Obama, "Yes we can!"

With a population increasing at an ever increasing rate, replacing people is easy.
Bluedoll
Trust in test tube living . . . by Bluedoll

I am not sure if I understand stem cell research completely. My question is if we are able to use tools to repair our natural cells, will this effort to extend life eventually fail also? Would unwanted mutations or something we are not aware of occur to sabotages our pursuits?

In reference, to living forever are we only able to produce some kind of morphed mutated monster (our cells in our body naturally regenerate every seven years so we are completely reborn but have the same characteristics we started out with in general) or a borg creation (star trek sci fi but a good imagine of what is possible?) which would not be our desirable achievement?

What is actually possible I will consider, depending on if science has actually discovered all the information required to sustain life in a ‘natural’ way and not in an artificial way?

Just not convinced yet that we are even close to understanding life but really like learning about this exciting research.
malcolmpreen
but surely the bigger question is... why would you want to....

I'm quite happy in my life, but the way the world is going I am glad I will not live forever.... (which is another reason why I do not (and will not) bring children into this world.)

Malcolm
TVme
If it were possible to live forever, I think it would have already happened (or be happening). The longest confirmed life span is 122 years and that person is dead. The oldest person in America recently died at 113 years of age. It has been estimated that 106 billion people have ever lived - 6 billion of those (us) are still breathing, but expected to live to 67 on the average, but probably not older than 106 at best. The human shell is built to last 120 years, so it would be highly unlikely to live forever in one's original skin. So now we are switching bodies to keep our brain alive. Older people's skills definitely degrade with age. Like malcompreen said we probably wouldn't want to - and will to live would have to be an enormous factor. So I'm running with : No.
upcirculohispanico
Immortality is tempting. But if we keep on improving ourselves, so we feel no pain, we catch no disease or so we pass through no death, aren't we changing or violating what it means to be human?
ocalhoun
upcirculohispanico wrote:
Immortality is tempting. But if we keep on improving ourselves, so we feel no pain, we catch no disease or so we pass through no death, aren't we changing or violating what it means to be human?

Yes we would be changing what it means to be human... Changing it for the better. Is that so horrible that it is worth dying to avoid?
rajpk
no it is not possible to live a life of immortalllllllllllll

i think imortality is imaginetion of our brain .........

its hard to belive.......

and

think if we willl immortal

then

whats about age

mean child ,,, teenage,,,,, old?????????

why we do hardwork to earn?????????

as we need nothing

because we willlllll immortttaaaaaaaalllllll
Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil




Wink


Cool Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Question
ocalhoun
rajpk wrote:

i think imortality is imaginetion of our brain .........

So was space flight once. All human inventions have to start first in the imagination before they can become reality.
Kopernikus
Neilos wrote:
Is it possible to live forever?

What does it mean to grow old and die? Can we overcome this process and hence forth live forever?

Neilos


You can, if you are a cancer cell Smile
ocalhoun
Kopernikus wrote:

You can, if you are a cancer cell Smile

That might just be a little more philosophical than you meant it to be.
If society as a whole was a body, and we the cells in it, an immortal person might literally become a 'cancer' of society...
speeDemon
dont know the possibility, but i'm pretty sure that if we do become immortal, we'll have to build a whole lot of new houses!! probably on other planets, and even solar systems...
deanhills
We probably will have to change completely physically as the cycles on earth are of the kind that requires humans to "come and go", i.e. live and die. So much so that we have a different perhaps non-organic form that does not have any bodily needs, cannot be injured and can transcend earth's limitations.
rajeeb
In which sense are you talking? In the sense of body or soul? If you want your body to be alive then try to do some great work and madam Tussuad building is there. and if you want to make your soul alive then start reading philosophy.

Again there is a way to keep the bacteria alive for 100s if year by putting them on liquid nitrogen. Ask your teacher for any kind of facility. he.. he.....
sharaf
ocalhoun wrote:
Of course it's possible. We don't have the technology for it yet though.

Though, actually, there is a chance of you suddenly being killed in some sort of accident. (hit by a bus, hit by a meteor, hit by an explosion caused by half of your chair spontaneously turning into antimatter, et cetera) This chance cannot be reduced to 0%. Therefore, if you live forever, you're 100% certain to meet an end like this sooner or later.



apart of probability consideration, biologically I think it is not possible to live forever, the internal organs of our body will not sustain forever. Taking this issue to a broader scope, like can any other animal, or any living creature live forever, also might face the same biological issue.

in other words, if there were a world where risks of accident was 0%, then still death would be unavoidable because of the biological wear and tear
rayz0r
In our teenage years, our bodies are very much capable of living into the 600 -700's. But the reason we don't is because when we age, our cells are programmed to die, because if they don't, small errors within the cells can be reproduced to large scales inflicting a little condition called cancer.
TheWizard01
Hi! I actually DO think it's possible to LIVE FOREVER. Sounds kinda strange haha but when you have marijuana in your system and you BREATH CORRECTLY with your stomach (instead of with the chest) then you can get help from other animals. The thing is that when you breath with your stomach then you see things in a different view. I believe in the evolution theory wich means that we human beings relate from the primates, therefore God does not exist wich means that we don't have anything to rely on when it comes to living forever.

Now, many probably knows that animals in nature help eachother out, humans included. Just that when you breath with your chest then it's hard to understand this. When you have marijuana in your body, and you look at a bird forexample or a dog and you tell the animal that you want to go into a more relaxed state of mind then the animal will in some amazing way (by looking at you or making a sound) change some or all of the marijuana in your body so that you get want. OR in this case LIVE FOREVER. I my self have tried this MANY TIMES and it actually WORKS! Just taking an example so you understand what I mean: (I went to the park to try this out, so I sat down on the parkbench and a bird was close to me. I looked at the bird and said that I want to live forever. The bird gave a sound and then I felt that some or all of the marijuana in my body changed to the way I wanted. I then felt that something in my body STOPPED, probably the aging system. I then moved and took a walk and felt that my body was so used to age and it was like a chock or something, it was so hard to continue living like that haha.)

Now, when we know that this actually WORKS then we can study this closely and find out WHAT part of the body or combination in the body STOPS. Then we know for sure how to make the AGING SYSTEM in the body STOP COMPLETLY. We could make a pill or something that stops the aging system and therefore achieve what all human beings want: ETERNAL LIFE.

If you don't believe me, than PLEASE try this out. If somebody of you guys (hopefully a scientist) BREATH CORRECTLY WITH YOUR STOMACH OR GUT (instead of with the chest) and you have marijuana in your body then you can DO THE SAME THING. Then we could do a scientific test of this and take a test person that do the same procedure and lock him in a room or something in a sufficient period of time (like a week) and actually look up afterwards how the aging system changed.

Best regards/
Fred from Sweden
Bikerman
Hmm...and when you are straight do you think this will still make sense? It doesn't make much sense now. We know a lot about the effects of THC and cannabinol on the system - granted there is more to learn, but I absolutely guarantee, 100%, that it is not a potion of eternal life.
Breathing with your stomache (diaphram) is a good thing - and in your case it will increase the amount of THC absorbed, which you may regard as an added bonus. It won't let you live forever however.
TheWizard01
I actually do think it makes sense. I myself have tried it out and it works! I've FELT how it feels in my body when you achieve this. I've wandered around and people around me have noticed what i've done.

So if someone of you want to try this out, hopefully a scientist, then it would be great. If you live in a place where the marijuana is legal then you should TRY IT OUT NOW BECUASE IT WORKS!
Bikerman
There is nothing to try-out.
Inhaling marijuhana cannot stop the aging process, no matter how you breathe. You age when your cells reproduce too many times and the telemeres at the end of the DNA chromosomes get too short. The DNA then 'unravels' - like a multi-strand nylon rope with a frayed end. This is understood, as is the fact that smoking weed will not have any significant effect on the process. Any effect it DOES have will be negative, not positive, since we know smoke can damage cells.
HVLGruppen
One of the really interesting things scientists /geneticists are looking into right now is telomerase.
Telomers are bundles sitting at the end of all chromosomes in all our DNA. Naturally by cell-division these telomers are gradually shortened, until at last the cell can no longer divide and dies because the chromosomes fall apart. Some plants/animals have an enzyme call telomerase, that naturally lengthens/repairs the telomers to their full length, thus actually slowing aging down.
This is of course just one of the things that cause "aging" in humans, and just injecting telomerase into the bloodstream will of course not make you naturally young again, but it is ONE of the things that cause aging.
briankid
living forever? i wonder if that is possible, but i think it is possible to live old and look young
lightningleo
is this a joke..??
i think no one wants to live forever.. when seeing its long term effects..
Radar
I'm going to go with no.

I mean, putting aside religious arguments, and even imagining that you can stop the aging process and avoiding being hit, stabbed, whatever else... the universe is still going to die.
orangbaik
yes its possible if you can set your cells to keep regenerating
ocalhoun
orangbaik wrote:
yes its possible if you can set your cells to keep regenerating

What about your bones?
Bikerman
Bone cells Smile
The problem is more basic unfortunately. Imagine the genes as stranded nylon ropes with end-caps (telemeres) which stop fraying. Each time the cell copies, the telemere gets shorter. After a number of copies it is too short to stop the gene 'fraying' and the cell commits suicide.
Solve that one and you are well on the way to a huge increase in life expectancy.
kelseymh
orangbaik wrote:
yes its possible if you can set your cells to keep regenerating


Some of us call that "cancer."
zimmer
Neilos wrote:
Is it possible to live forever?

What does it mean to grow old and die? Can we overcome this process and hence forth live forever?

Neilos


for me to live forever is not good.. what i mean is as you getting your age higher you need sometimes to take a rest.. this means if you live forever you need to compete with the young-ones. you need to work hard while living in order to sustain you self.

I don't want to compete and do business/ thinking to earn money just to live for ever.. i guess the good question is that now, a days our life is being shorten due to our lifestyle living.. as far as i can remember in old days or before Christ .. i have read some books that there age reach more than 100+ and it was normal on those days..

Now, reaching 80 is hard.. base on our lifestyle living.
speeDemon
probably with a whole lot of transplants?
ocalhoun
kelseymh wrote:
orangbaik wrote:
yes its possible if you can set your cells to keep regenerating


Some of us call that "cancer."


Which brings to mind... could one 'live' forever, if even just as a lump of cancerous cells could be kept alive in a test tube?
Bikerman
ocalhoun wrote:
kelseymh wrote:
orangbaik wrote:
yes its possible if you can set your cells to keep regenerating


Some of us call that "cancer."


Which brings to mind... could one 'live' forever, if even just as a lump of cancerous cells could be kept alive in a test tube?
Unlikely. I find it unlikely that the gene sequence which contains the 'self destruct' instruction could simply be 'snipped out' without bringing a whole load of new difficulties.
odiousness
Neilos wrote:
Is it possible to live forever?

What does it mean to grow old and die? Can we overcome this process and hence forth live forever?

Neilos


Hello this is odiousness the research for this is coming along fast if you live for the next 30-40 years you may experience it or a form of it non perfected
just checkout this link to see what i mean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SENS_Foundation
firstroad
no we can't
because we get old and we have health problems but we can prolong our life for sure
every time we eat a candy or drinking a glass of alcohol we make our life shorter
we are like OSs... when you fresh install it it's ****** great but when you install games programms and even surfing on the internet creates files that are making the computer slower and you can clean it you can defrag but after a while you will nedd to reinstall it...
zaxacongrejo
Yes we can, and Nasa is already studding the subject it looks like we are just an energy that lies in our brain, and when body died returns to the universe. So if we control those energies we can live for ever
capricornis
Finite beings cannot comprehend 'infinite'. Without going into Kantian debates too much, all beings on this planet (which is pretty much the only real reference system we have, of course, excluding the religious and pseudo-religious garbage) evolved to strive within a finite environment and finite time-frame and to be optimally successful in that.

This is what Dawkins calls "Optimal Evolution Strategy". The OES can only make sense within an environment of finite resources and scarcity, otherwise it would be inapplicable (as within an 'infinite' environment, every entity will eventually reach OES, regardless of any action or inaction by itself, as within infinite time lines the probability for any event is 100%.

In a nutshell, the outcomes of finite-based evolution (us) cannot possibly comprehend what 'infinite' is or supposed to be. Our psycho-physical structures are not designed for or capable of dealing with such concepts. What this means in real life is that even if somehow we extend the life of our bodies beyond the present perceived hard limit of about 120 years, our brains and psychologies will not be able to cope with processing information and arranging them over such long periods of time. The end-result would be that such long-lived human beings would inevitably go insane and destroy themselves.

Our life/living only has meaning within the socio-temporal context in which we've come to perceive ourselves as sentient. It has no meaning/existence, neither in practice, nor in theory, on an infinite or near-infinite time scale.
fouadCh
Neilos wrote:
Is it possible to live forever?

What does it mean to grow old and die? Can we overcome this process and hence forth live forever?

Neilos

The very short answer to your question is a BIG NO !.. No species on earth (as far as we know) is capable of such achievement.. Life is meant to be finite by design .. that's why there is the reproduction process, be it sexual or asexual, to guarantee its durability/maintenance..

.. and I wonder why one would want a perpetual life ?!.. That sounds worst than a life imprisonment sentence; meaning It's more like a punishment than anything else, at least for me...
zaxacongrejo
Quote:

The very short answer to your question is a BIG NO !.. No species on earth (as far as we know) is capable of such achievement.. Life is meant to be finite by design .. that's why there is the reproduction process, be it sexual or asexual, to guarantee its durability/maintenance..

.. and I wonder why one would want a perpetual life ?!.. That sounds worst than a life imprisonment sentence; meaning It's more like a punishment than anything else, at least for me...


That was true till we as a specie show up
History tell us that we start for living till 30 to 40 years old now we last till 80/100
And this is just because of science now imagining if we control the energies that we are.
Maybe we will be able to import export that energies in several body’s
fouadCh
zaxacongrejo wrote:
Quote:

The very short answer to your question is a BIG NO !.. No species on earth (as far as we know) is capable of such achievement.. Life is meant to be finite by design .. that's why there is the reproduction process, be it sexual or asexual, to guarantee its durability/maintenance..

.. and I wonder why one would want a perpetual life ?!.. That sounds worst than a life imprisonment sentence; meaning It's more like a punishment than anything else, at least for me...


That was true till we as a specie show up
History tell us that we start for living till 30 to 40 years old now we last till 80/100
And this is just because of science now imagining if we control the energies that we are.
Maybe we will be able to import export that energies in several body’s


Increasing life expectancy is one thing, but asking for immortality is quite another... As I said, the only things that survives across generations are sex Cells (or germinal cells) and the genes they carry... this is because of their very role which is to generate new individuals (human beings in the case of H. sapiens) at each new generation.. What is important, in Biology, is the species not the individuals which are meant to be ephemeral...

Anyone that has studied Biology is/should be aware of that...
zaxacongrejo
True but we are changing things aren’t we?
we shouldn’t be able to clone and we are
we shouldn’t be able to genie modification on species and we are
And what about what we really are?
Just a curiosity we already transplanted brains at the 70s in monkeys
And nowadays we are able to create brains not software brains but organic
and plus insert artificial brains in living creatures like mouse’s
fouadCh
zaxacongrejo wrote:
True but we are changing things aren’t we?
we shouldn’t be able to clone and we are
we shouldn’t be able to genie modification on species and we are
And what about what we really are?
Just a curiosity we already transplanted brains at the 70s in monkeys
And nowadays we are able to create brains not software brains but organic
and plus insert artificial brains in living creatures like mouse’s
Sorry to have to say NO!.. We are tinkering with life forms because we can.. and hope to learn more about it.. because we have still a long (long long) way to go to come to an understanding of what Life really is (in essence)... and It's a fascinating journey by the way (for anyone contemplating to undertake it)

zaxacongrejo wrote:
we shouldn’t be able to clone and we are
we shouldn’t be able to genie modification on species and we are

Who said that we shouldn't be able to do those things.. As I said, It's just a matter of time, between knowing/discovering something and start experimenting with it.. Genes were well known conceptually for about a century (since Mendel's Law on heredity), but It wasn't possible to access them physically (I should say chemically) before we know what they are at a molecular level.. Something that came with the discovery of DNA and, more importantly, the demonstration that It's the DNA that carries hereditary information (aka genes).. 2 decades after that many Labs have started manipulating genes in Bacteria (E. coli), first, then fungi (S. cerevisiae) .. then in mouse (M. musculus).. then in Man (H. sapiens)... This is as molecular biology tools evolved WITH our knowledge about the structure of genes in molecular terms...

.. and the same should be said for cloning, and in Neurosciences.. etc.. It's just Human nature/curiosity that drives the whole process... which of course have raised many ethical questions (hence the new Bioethics discipline) about what should or not be permitted...

Now, I should say that more we know, more we are aware that we don't know that much after all.. (this is why Scientists are humble by nature).. and That's why I'm always struck by the unrealistic expectations of people towards Biology/Medicine and Science in general..
zaxacongrejo
what about what we realy are?
because imagine if you can repalce all body for machines, exeption to the brain we will keep alive
but no longer in a body right?

thats why a talked about brain transplantation and artificial brains
fouadCh
zaxacongrejo wrote:
what about what we realy are?
I'm not sure about what you mean by "We"; is it "We" as a life-form, meaning Life in general.. or is it "We" as being Humans...
But both questions are valid.. and I can only repeat what I've said earlier :
fouadCh wrote:
We are tinkering with life forms because we can.. and hope to learn more about it.. because we have still a long (long long) way to go to come to an understanding of what Life really is (in essence)... and It's a fascinating journey by the way (for anyone contemplating to undertake it)
.. then you have just to add to that, the questions of self-awareness and Cognitive faculties ... too much stuff that I'm not sure Science can handle because of the way it works...

zaxacongrejo wrote:
(........)
because imagine if you can repalce all body for machines, exeption to the brain we will keep alive
but no longer in a body right?
What does that really mean.. Are we still talking about human beings !.. You tend to forget that we are, by definition of being a life-form, not separate (egoistic) entities.. but part of a continuum that has started way way back in time (since the dawn of Life on Earth).. and that the only way to keep going (as a species not as individuals) is to reproduce..

zaxacongrejo wrote:
(..........)
thats why a talked about brain transplantation and artificial brains
What's doable is nerve cells grafts (with +/- success) as a treatment for some neurological (degenerative) conditions.. and there is no brain transplantation as such... at least AFAIK..
codegeek
Why would you want to live forever? I'd rather just travel to the future! Living forever seems so dull and boring, while time travel seems to be an awesome adventurous journey.
jajarvin
You'll live forever in your children's minds.
zaxacongrejo
by brain transplantation i meant head
already performed in several animals included apes
capricornis
This thread only goes to prove that even though the topic has been beaten to death, a personal voicing on immortality always has value Smile
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
kelseymh wrote:
orangbaik wrote:
yes its possible if you can set your cells to keep regenerating


Some of us call that "cancer."


Which brings to mind... could one 'live' forever, if even just as a lump of cancerous cells could be kept alive in a test tube?
Unlikely. I find it unlikely that the gene sequence which contains the 'self destruct' instruction could simply be 'snipped out' without bringing a whole load of new difficulties.

Wait... mind-blowing idea time!

If one cell of you could be kept alive indefinitely... or even divide and grow. Would that count as 'you' living forever? It is a part of you, after all, and is still alive...

Now... imagine that one cell is an egg cell...
Maybe from a biological standpoint, reproduction is immortality.



...It also suggests that this 'self destruct' can be bypassed or reset... or babies would be born the same (cellular) age as their parents, and all life would die out after a few generations.
zimmer
Neilos wrote:
Is it possible to live forever?

What does it mean to grow old and die? Can we overcome this process and hence forth live forever?

Neilos


for me, if i got choices. I dont want to live forever. if you live forever you need to work this means you will work forever. Need to compete with younger generations again and the ones generation that comes. It is very stressful.
fouadCh
ocalhoun wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
kelseymh wrote:
orangbaik wrote:
yes its possible if you can set your cells to keep regenerating


Some of us call that "cancer."


Which brings to mind... could one 'live' forever, if even just as a lump of cancerous cells could be kept alive in a test tube?
Unlikely. I find it unlikely that the gene sequence which contains the 'self destruct' instruction could simply be 'snipped out' without bringing a whole load of new difficulties.

Wait... mind-blowing idea time!

If one cell of you could be kept alive indefinitely... or even divide and grow. Would that count as 'you' living forever? It is a part of you, after all, and is still alive...

Now... imagine that one cell is an egg cell...
Maybe from a biological standpoint, reproduction is immortality.

...It also suggests that this 'self destruct' can be bypassed or reset... or babies would be born the same (cellular) age as their parents, and all life would die out after a few generations.

Sorry, there is nothing new in all that...
In biological terms, we call those laboratory-grown (human or not) cells: cell lines... and there are thousands of them since the first lab protocols were established in the 1920s... May be the most popular among them are the HeLa cell line.. because they are the first immortal human cells ever grown in culture, and that was in 1951 in Baltimore, Maryland (USA).. It was established from a tissue sample of a young woman with cervical cancer.. Her name was Henrietta Lacks (hence HeLa)..

I don't want to be too technical about how that "immortality" is "gained" at the cellular level.. because, in the beginnings, to establish a cell line you have to start with cancerous cells (like in the HeLa case), but now we've learn so much about the mechanisms of how Mammalian cell cycle is regulated (involving oncogenes, proto-oncogenes, cyclins ...) that we can start with pretty much any type of cells...

... and no that doesn't solve the problem of immortality at the individual level, which I maintain is in total opposition with the general strategy of Life (as we know it on Earth) to maintain itself.. meaning Life was designed to be maintained at the species level not at the individual level...
fouadCh
zimmer wrote:
Neilos wrote:
Is it possible to live forever?

What does it mean to grow old and die? Can we overcome this process and hence forth live forever?

Neilos


for me, if i got choices. I dont want to live forever. if you live forever you need to work this means you will work forever. Need to compete with younger generations again and the ones generation that comes. It is very stressful.

I think you're still reasoning as a mortal being there.. It seems to me that work and competing with youngsters shouldn't be something that might preoccupy an "immortal being" at all... A hypothetical "immortal being" has (by definition) the time for him (a lot of it..) .. so that it should have a cumulation of knowledge (wisdom) and wealth (measured in millennia) that ought to dispense him from a triviality such as work... Something that mortal being can't offered .. :-)
testsoc
I guess the question is - do we want to? I would be so very tired after 500 years on this planet or beyond... how would you cope with all of the memories...
Pippo90
I have the (maybe crazy) belief that I will never die, since we will discover how to become immortal when I will still be alive. There is a movement, Transhumanism, which believes in something similar (even if I have never gone into details).
Ankhanu
Is this based on anything remotely scientific, or is it just belief?
kelseymh
Ankhanu wrote:
Is this based on anything remotely scientific, or is it just belief?


It's psuedo-religious mumbo-jumbo, with the occasional scientific-sounding word thrown in to keep the stupid interested.

Most of this thread should have been ash-canned long ago.
Ankhanu
Aye, there are good reasons I've stayed out of it.
The question was fairly rhetorical.
Bikerman
[Moderator
I agree with the points above - there is little of any merit here for a science forum. Since there are so many postings I'll avoid spam-canning it and lock the thread instead - that will allow anyone who wishes to review the postings to do so, whilst ensuring it will 'die' a natural, if slightly accelerated, death.
Bikerman]
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