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are you proud of your country? why?





Cliffer
are you proud of your country? and look other country down? why?
tchaunt
I'm not proud of my country at all. I will admit there are others who seem worse off, but that's probably because I don't live there. To be honest, I am ashamed to say that I live in the United States.
ocalhoun
tchaunt wrote:
To be honest, I am ashamed to say that I live in the United States.

Then why do you still live there?
deanhills
tchaunt wrote:
I'm not proud of my country at all. I will admit there are others who seem worse off, but that's probably because I don't live there. To be honest, I am ashamed to say that I live in the United States.
That is an honest answer, I like it. What is it that you are ashamed about and what would it take to make you proud of the United States?
Voodoocat
tchaunt wrote:
Quote:
To be honest, I am ashamed to say that I live in the United States.

Exactly what are you ashamed about? Could it be:

That America is so desireable that millions of immigrants have illegally entered the country to escape the horrible conditions of their own country?

That America does not limit your ability to achieve your dreams? For example: Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas was raised in poverty in the South yet overcame the difficulties.

That America is the only country technologically advanced enouth to operate the space shuttle and regularly launch space missions?

That America routinely sends millions of dollars whenever an international tragedy strikes, such as the support Americans offered after the Indian Ocean tsunami?
ocalhoun
Voodoocat wrote:


That America is the only country technologically advanced enouth to operate the space shuttle and regularly launch space missions?


And then discontinue the space missions when the thing gets old and unsafe ^.^

The USA would be on the short list of considerations for 'greatest country in the world' even still, though it has been on the way down for a while now.
deanhills
Voodoocat wrote:
tchaunt wrote:
Quote:
To be honest, I am ashamed to say that I live in the United States.

Exactly what are you ashamed about? Could it be:

That America is so desireable that millions of immigrants have illegally entered the country to escape the horrible conditions of their own country?

That America does not limit your ability to achieve your dreams? For example: Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas was raised in poverty in the South yet overcame the difficulties.

That America is the only country technologically advanced enouth to operate the space shuttle and regularly launch space missions?

That America routinely sends millions of dollars whenever an international tragedy strikes, such as the support Americans offered after the Indian Ocean tsunami?
One thing that is nice about the US is freedom of opinion. Tchaunt must have some good reasons for feeling ashamed, so would be nice to hear them.

Quote:
That America is so desireable that millions of immigrants have illegally entered the country to escape the horrible conditions of their own country?
I wonder how many of them have regretted their move. Immigrants are very much exploited and it is only a very few that reach their dreams in the end. Quite a number are quite miserable, they usually get the jobs that Americans do not want, and are made to suffer in order to keep those jobs.

Quote:
That America is the only country technologically advanced enouth to operate the space shuttle and regularly launch space missions?
I don't think that is accurate. Russia is able to do so, including lately India, can imagine China .... there are a few countries with capability, but possibly the US programme is much more publicized. It's the one I relate to the best anyway, as it is one of its attributes that I admire the most ... right from "A dream is alive" stage .... Smile
lagoon
I am damned proud to live in Britain. With the mother of all Parliaments and the most open immigration policy in the world, I live in a multi-cultural country characterised by its people and not its stereotypes.
ocalhoun
lagoon wrote:
the most open immigration policy in the world


It irks me that the USA can't claim this... The 'lock down the borders' mentality is all wrong, and will ruin the country in the long run.

If I had my way, it would take only a 30 minute stop at the border crossing station to become a full citizen.
Solon_Poledourus
ocalhoun wrote:
It irks me that the USA can't claim this... The 'lock down the borders' mentality is all wrong, and will ruin the country in the long run.

If I had my way, it would take only a 30 minute stop at the border crossing station to become a full citizen.
Agreed. The whole "they take our jobs" line that anti-immigration proponents keep towing is utter insanity. Ask those same people if they would go out in the hot fields to pick citrus or work in packing houses, and the answer is always "no"; the pay is too low, the conditions are poor, and there are not good enough benefits, if any. Do they really think hordes of immigrants would flood into this country to take corporate management positions out from under Americans?

Hell, I am all for an immigrant who comes here with enough skills to take a high paying, upper class job. Many have done it before. But the vast majority of immigrants end up working jobs that the anti-immigration crowd would never be caught dead working themselves. So let them do it, it is good for the economy, and gives people a better chance than what they might have had in their homeland. And if it was easier for them to become citizens, the exploitation of immigrant workers would all but disappear.
pumpin
I will always be proud of my country-Nigeria though she's rated as one of the most corrupt countries in the world. But to say the truth, there,s no place like my country with diverse and rich culture + good people with human love. Laughing
tingkagol
ocalhoun wrote:
If I had my way, it would take only a 30 minute stop at the border crossing station to become a full citizen.

If the US waved that flag out here, your '30 minute stop' will become a full day considering the thousands who'd want to immigrate there on a whim.




The Philippines is okay, but like I always say, I'm never a fan of its current politics. Mass poverty, unemployment, poor education all boils down to this country's poor politics. But one thing's for certain though- I'll never get tired of its geography & weather.
deanhills
lagoon wrote:
I am damned proud to live in Britain. With the mother of all Parliaments and the most open immigration policy in the world, I live in a multi-cultural country characterised by its people and not its stereotypes.
Nice to hear! Sounds healthy and positive. Smile
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
lagoon wrote:
the most open immigration policy in the world


It irks me that the USA can't claim this... The 'lock down the borders' mentality is all wrong, and will ruin the country in the long run.

If I had my way, it would take only a 30 minute stop at the border crossing station to become a full citizen.
Thanks Ocalhoun. This is really well put. You are so right. Not only is the immigration policy closed, but the immigration officials both at the borders of the US, inside the borders at immigration offices, and outside the borders in Embassies and Consulate Generals all over the world, "closed", hostile, and not very nice to deal with. Sorry to say this, but this has been my own personal experience, both as a South African and then as a Canadian. I still love the United States though and have family there. I just don't like the immigration policies or petty officials. They really need to be trained properly to deal with people.
ocalhoun
tingkagol wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
If I had my way, it would take only a 30 minute stop at the border crossing station to become a full citizen.

If the US waved that flag out here, your '30 minute stop' will become a full day considering the thousands who'd want to immigrate there on a whim.

Yes, at first it would be bad, but it would die down as it starts to be that everyone who wants in is in.

Here's how it would go (in the language of the immigrant):

Border Crossing/Immigration Official: Hello, how can I help you?
Immigrant: I want to start a new life in America.
BCIO: Okay, what's your name?
I: Jose Pena
BCIO (while typing): Please put your hands in the outlines in front of you for fingerprints.
I: Okay
BCIO: Wait just a moment... Okay, no connection with terrorist or smuggling activities is in our database with your name, fingerprints, or appearance (scanned by computer). Please take a seat while we print out your ID, and we'll call you up when it's ready... Next Please!

...
...
BCIO: Jose Pena?
I: Yeah?
BCIO: Here's your social security card: don't loose it. Here's your Immigrant ID Card, which, in combination with your foreign driver's license (if you have one) will allow you to drive here for 60 days. Here's a booklet that explains some of the culture, and many of the laws that may be different from what you're used to. And here's another booklet, this one's about how, when, and why you should vote and pay your taxes. Good luck in the USA... Next Please!
I: Uh, thanks, bye.
Bannik
ocalhoun wrote:
tingkagol wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
If I had my way, it would take only a 30 minute stop at the border crossing station to become a full citizen.

If the US waved that flag out here, your '30 minute stop' will become a full day considering the thousands who'd want to immigrate there on a whim.

Yes, at first it would be bad, but it would die down as it starts to be that everyone who wants in is in.

Here's how it would go (in the language of the immigrant):

Border Crossing/Immigration Official: Hello, how can I help you?
Immigrant: I want to start a new life in America.
BCIO: Okay, what's your name?
I: Jose Pena
BCIO (while typing): Please put your hands in the outlines in front of you for fingerprints.
I: Okay
BCIO: Wait just a moment... Okay, no connection with terrorist or smuggling activities is in our database with your name, fingerprints, or appearance (scanned by computer). Please take a seat while we print out your ID, and we'll call you up when it's ready... Next Please!

...
...
BCIO: Jose Pena?
I: Yeah?
BCIO: Here's your social security card: don't loose it. Here's your Immigrant ID Card, which, in combination with your foreign driver's license (if you have one) will allow you to drive here for 60 days. Here's a booklet that explains some of the culture, and many of the laws that may be different from what you're used to. And here's another booklet, this one's about how, when, and why you should vote and pay your taxes. Good luck in the USA... Next Please!
I: Uh, thanks, bye.


perfect, see what i don't understand about illegal immigration is this, they will still get in, you cant stop it, the only way is too build a giant wall on the border with guards and cameras...

so instead of actually stopping the immigration but allow it, at least (as the story above goes) the immigrant would be registered, have a photo and fingerprint taken etc...if he stays for longer of if he is caught its a lot easier too find him and deport him back.....then if its someone who just sneaked in...
deanhills
Bannik wrote:
perfect, see what i don't understand about illegal immigration is this, they will still get in, you cant stop it, the only way is too build a giant wall on the border with guards and cameras...

so instead of actually stopping the immigration but allow it, at least (as the story above goes) the immigrant would be registered, have a photo and fingerprint taken etc...if he stays for longer of if he is caught its a lot easier too find him and deport him back.....then if its someone who just sneaked in...
I thought they already had satellite coverage to do the job? They just need to tweak and perfect it a little? Smile
ocalhoun
Bannik wrote:

perfect, see what i don't understand about illegal immigration is this, they will still get in, you cant stop it, the only way is too build a giant wall on the border with guards and cameras...

Even that won't work.

The Berlin wall was two walls actually, one on each side of a wide stretch of minefield watched over by guard towers with machine guns. Yet, even then, people still made it over, around, through, and under it.

As well as being unnecessary and harmful to the country, keeping immigrants out is physically impossible!
Solon_Poledourus
ocalhoun wrote:
As well as being unnecessary and harmful to the country, keeping immigrants out is physically impossible!
A HUGE exercise in futility at the taxpayers expense. But as long as news agencies convince people that illegal immigrants are coming here and taking our jobs, committing crimes, clogging up our hospitals, etc, then people will keep supporting a "wall" or whatever other useless measure of "them vs us" faux security our representatives try to sell us.
spring567
tchaunt wrote:
I'm not proud of my country at all. I will admit there are others who seem worse off, but that's probably because I don't live there. To be honest, I am ashamed to say that I live in the United States.



I'm not proud of my country at all. To be honest, I am ashamed to say that I live in China.
Acturely, I like the United States very much .
Bannik
Exactly what are you ashamed about? Could it be:

Quote:
That America is so desireable that millions of immigrants have illegally entered the country to escape the horrible conditions of their own country?


techinically speaking its nothing special...all world super powers face immigrants, heck any developed country does (read about calais and brit illegals), if you look at the statistics the majority of US illegals come from countries sorounding usa, plus its a lot easier too get into the USA then most other countries (i doubt illegals from mexico ever thought "lets swim too britain"

Quote:
That America does not limit your ability to achieve your dreams? For example: Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas was raised in poverty in the South yet overcame the difficulties.


right.....sry mate its not america only, all major developed countries can, the only difference is that america has MORE opportunities then others.

Quote:
That America is the only country technologically advanced enouth to operate the space shuttle and regularly launch space missions?


no america - russia can, so can china and any other country that has money and scientist....the only thing is why should they send anything into space, NASA shares almost all its findings with the scientific community.....so no need too send anyone too space and waste all those millions of hard earned money when someone else can do it for you.

Quote:
That America routinely sends millions of dollars whenever an international tragedy strikes, such as the support Americans offered after the Indian Ocean tsunami?


was that really a smart move too do, think about, sure i understand all that money helps but wouldnt it be smarter too actually give that money back too the usa citezens and at the same time helping victims..

hear me out, basically they pay US citezens to go too that country and work with their career (construction, enginering, medical, educational, etc by helping those people....fixes both career problems and tsunami victims...they could even train US citizens in special careers with language specifically too go help other countries....

a whole new career structure..


if they pay for the whole thing and use their own citizens, it would be slighter then normal but it would be much better then whats happening now.


and instead of wasting TRILLIONS on military research give a lot of money too medical research too stop disease that take more lives then you can even imagine.

yes iam sure someone is going too spew some crap about how US needs too defend itself etc etc it have too many enemies etc et..
have you ever heard of the saying You reap what you sow, if usa sticked too its constitutions and stayed away from all none domestic wars and conflicts, fixed its own country, focused on intelligence and humantarian actions...instead of ignorance and war....NO one would attack you, why would they? they would just look like totall ****** too the whole world? even china would say "that aint right bro".


BANNIK FTW!! i rock so hard rocks crumble - wait no iam just wasted
psleang
I will always be proud of the United States of America for what it was and what it originally stood for. I am still proud of our technological innovation, entrepreneurial spirit and general self-reliance. I am not proud of the direction our country is moving, though. For decades we have been slowly abandoning the very principles that made us the greatest, most powerful, and most progressive culture the Earth has ever seen. I am afraid that 50 years from now we will be mired in a socio-political system that completely sacrifices equality of opportunity for equality of position. I am afraid we have succeeded ourselves into a slow, stagnant death, as all prosperous nations do. But I am still proud of the path we took to get here and the net good we have done for mankind. My one major hope is that I can contribute my fair share before I die, and make my fore-fathers proud of me.
deanhills
psleang wrote:
I will always be proud of the United States of America for what it was and what it originally stood for. I am still proud of our technological innovation, entrepreneurial spirit and general self-reliance. I am not proud of the direction our country is moving, though. For decades we have been slowly abandoning the very principles that made us the greatest, most powerful, and most progressive culture the Earth has ever seen. I am afraid that 50 years from now we will be mired in a socio-political system that completely sacrifices equality of opportunity for equality of position. I am afraid we have succeeded ourselves into a slow, stagnant death, as all prosperous nations do. But I am still proud of the path we took to get here and the net good we have done for mankind. My one major hope is that I can contribute my fair share before I die, and make my fore-fathers proud of me.
Perhaps there has to be a point where trading on all the good things of the past is not good enough any longer. What about the future of the children, including the 1.2-trillion US$ that were robbed from them with no accountability for it in January of this year? And of course, they were not allowed to vote for that either, Congress did not appear to have read all of the Bill, and nobody is asking what happened to the 1.2-trillionUS$?
atul2242
Getting back to the topic.

Nationalism has many positive points-

it gives an identity, a feeling of roots and a familiar culture not to mention currency, a familiar economy and a market which we have been part of since borne.

I am not sure if I am proud to be Indian.... nor do I look down on other counties... I like many of the countries I have visited and/or lived in ... but never wanted to stay away from this culture.... which I find is more easily to find in surrounding countries like Pakistan .... or even other Asian countries.

I may rather not agree with the economic and political practices followed by many countries in fact I tend to dis-agree with many policies being perused by our government... .

A remember a song by Joan Baez.....
Afaceinthematrix
Hmmm.... Well, I am extremely lucky, blessed, and grateful to live in a country with freedoms (for the most part), where I don't have to worry about having my needs, where diversity exists, etc.

However, I am ashamed about the mentality of many of the fellow citizens here. I hate living in a country where people are so wasteful (Americans are extremely wasteful), gluttonous (there are so many overweight people), lazy (when I was young, I could go outside or to the park on any given day and find tons and tons of kids to play ball with - now everyone is always inside playing video games), ignorant (especially about mathematics, science, geography, the world in general), and religious (that religion nonsense should be a thing of the past).

So I love my country but am disappointed in a large proportion of my fellow citizens (which will probably lead me to leaving the country after I finish up college).
deanhills
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
Hmmm.... Well, I am extremely lucky, blessed, and grateful to live in a country with freedoms (for the most part), where I don't have to worry about having my needs, where diversity exists, etc.

However, I am ashamed about the mentality of many of the fellow citizens here. I hate living in a country where people are so wasteful (Americans are extremely wasteful), gluttonous (there are so many overweight people), lazy (when I was young, I could go outside or to the park on any given day and find tons and tons of kids to play ball with - now everyone is always inside playing video games), ignorant (especially about mathematics, science, geography, the world in general), and religious (that religion nonsense should be a thing of the past).

So I love my country but am disappointed in a large proportion of my fellow citizens (which will probably lead me to leaving the country after I finish up college).
Do you have an idea of the places you would go to? Perhaps what you are ashamed off is applicable in most places in the world, however perhaps you know of some places that may be different, and I would be interested to move to those too. I am currently looking at options, so this is of interest to me.
atul2242
deanhills wrote:
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
Hmmm.... Well, I am extremely lucky, blessed, and grateful to live in a country with freedoms (for the most part), where I don't have to worry about having my needs, where diversity exists, etc.

However, I am ashamed about the mentality of many of the fellow citizens here. I hate living in a country where people are so wasteful (Americans are extremely wasteful), gluttonous (there are so many overweight people), lazy (when I was young, I could go outside or to the park on any given day and find tons and tons of kids to play ball with - now everyone is always inside playing video games), ignorant (especially about mathematics, science, geography, the world in general), and religious (that religion nonsense should be a thing of the past).

So I love my country but am disappointed in a large proportion of my fellow citizens (which will probably lead me to leaving the country after I finish up college).
Do you have an idea of the places you would go to? Perhaps what you are ashamed off is applicable in most places in the world, however perhaps you know of some places that may be different, and I would be interested to move to those too. I am currently looking at options, so this is of interest to me.


Maybe this is interesting for you too. I live in India, used to in Delhi... a huge metropolis with problems similar to those described by Afaceinthematrix. Maybe not so wasteful, but gluttony is on the rise and more and more environmentally bad products are being promoted and used.
2 years ago I shifted to Dehradun, a smaller city on the edge of the mountains with less traffic, better more sensitive people, a better climate and environment and less tension.
Maybe you can find better places around ... rather than shifting from country 2 country.
Afaceinthematrix
deanhills wrote:
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
Hmmm.... Well, I am extremely lucky, blessed, and grateful to live in a country with freedoms (for the most part), where I don't have to worry about having my needs, where diversity exists, etc.

However, I am ashamed about the mentality of many of the fellow citizens here. I hate living in a country where people are so wasteful (Americans are extremely wasteful), gluttonous (there are so many overweight people), lazy (when I was young, I could go outside or to the park on any given day and find tons and tons of kids to play ball with - now everyone is always inside playing video games), ignorant (especially about mathematics, science, geography, the world in general), and religious (that religion nonsense should be a thing of the past).

So I love my country but am disappointed in a large proportion of my fellow citizens (which will probably lead me to leaving the country after I finish up college).
Do you have an idea of the places you would go to? Perhaps what you are ashamed off is applicable in most places in the world, however perhaps you know of some places that may be different, and I would be interested to move to those too. I am currently looking at options, so this is of interest to me.


I have connections in many different countries ranging from Senegal, Gabon, France, etc. I do not want to live in North America (although I do love Canada) or Europe. At this point, I am considering my options and not committing myself to a place yet. I will probably end up living a nomadic life because I want to get around and see the world... I have no strong family connections to worry about - I do not have a wife/kids (with no intentions of having one) and I have weak ties with all of my relatives. The world is open for me to explore...
deanhills
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
Hmmm.... Well, I am extremely lucky, blessed, and grateful to live in a country with freedoms (for the most part), where I don't have to worry about having my needs, where diversity exists, etc.

However, I am ashamed about the mentality of many of the fellow citizens here. I hate living in a country where people are so wasteful (Americans are extremely wasteful), gluttonous (there are so many overweight people), lazy (when I was young, I could go outside or to the park on any given day and find tons and tons of kids to play ball with - now everyone is always inside playing video games), ignorant (especially about mathematics, science, geography, the world in general), and religious (that religion nonsense should be a thing of the past).

So I love my country but am disappointed in a large proportion of my fellow citizens (which will probably lead me to leaving the country after I finish up college).
Do you have an idea of the places you would go to? Perhaps what you are ashamed off is applicable in most places in the world, however perhaps you know of some places that may be different, and I would be interested to move to those too. I am currently looking at options, so this is of interest to me.


I have connections in many different countries ranging from Senegal, Gabon, France, etc. I do not want to live in North America (although I do love Canada) or Europe. At this point, I am considering my options and not committing myself to a place yet. I will probably end up living a nomadic life because I want to get around and see the world... I have no strong family connections to worry about - I do not have a wife/kids (with no intentions of having one) and I have weak ties with all of my relatives. The world is open for me to explore...
Excellent idea. New Zealand is slightly chilly, but a beautiful place, especially the Southern Island and Christ Church, hope you will include that in your options, as you would enjoy their values too. Australia is a bit more aggressive, more room for disappointments. But they have sunny Queensland, so that should remind you maybe a bit of California. South Africa has a high crime rate, but well worth spending time in. So is Tanzania - Dares Salaam and Tanzania. Kenya, Nairobi should be interesting too, and I've heard good things about Kampala, Uganda.
Afaceinthematrix
^^I have considered all of those. However I am sure (almost 100% positive) that within the next five years I will be in Africa (you mentioned South Africa, Uganda, Tanzania, and Kenya - all possibilities). The only thing that would maybe change my mind would be my tour of South America next summer (I would have gone this summer if I didn't already have a vacation planned). I have never been to South America and I may end up liking it enough to go there...
deanhills
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
^^I have considered all of those. However I am sure (almost 100% positive) that within the next five years I will be in Africa (you mentioned South Africa, Uganda, Tanzania, and Kenya - all possibilities). The only thing that would maybe change my mind would be my tour of South America next summer (I would have gone this summer if I didn't already have a vacation planned). I have never been to South America and I may end up liking it enough to go there...
Sounds wonderful. I have not been to South America yet, and it is very high on my list for a visit. Particularly Ecuador, Peru and Chile, although I've heard good things about Argentina and Brazil as well.

Back on topic, once you travel, and live in other countries, you may come to have a different appreciation of your origins. You will find people admiring you for being American (most of the time) with stars in their eyes. The longer you are away from the US, the less irritating some of the issues will become.
Afaceinthematrix
^^Well like I said, I am grateful that I am an American. I love this country and the opportunities that it has. What I do not like is the gluttony, wastefulness, materialism, ignorance, etc. that some of the citizens have. I have nothing against the country - just against some of the attributes of its citizens.
Nero
I obviously love my country. It's so laid-back and easygoing and civilized.
deanhills
Nero wrote:
I obviously love my country. It's so laid-back and easygoing and civilized.
So which country are you in? Sounds like a good one to live in. Smile
ocalhoun
Nero wrote:
easygoing and civilized.

Sounds like an impossible combination.
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
Nero wrote:
easygoing and civilized.

Sounds like an impossible combination.
Perhaps some civilized people could be easygoing, and/or some easygoing people could be civilized? Laughing
Bikerman
I am proud of my country? Can't really give a yes or no - I am proud of some bits, ashamed of others, and that applies historically as well as to the present.
Am I a patriot? Yes - I believe that I have a duty to my country which allows it to make certain demands on me. That does not mean, however, that I support the 'my country right or wrong' principle - I certainly do not.
atul2242
I've always wanted to visit the Pacific islands... anyone been there?
ArkansasFan02
I am from America and I am really proud of my country because we hav so many rights that some other countrys don't hav. We are also a free country! Go America! Very Happy
Vrythramax
Bikerman wrote:
I am proud of my country? Can't really give a yes or no - I am proud of some bits, ashamed of others, and that applies historically as well as to the present.
Am I a patriot? Yes - I believe that I have a duty to my country which allows it to make certain demands on me. That does not mean, however, that I support the 'my country right or wrong' principle - I certainly do not.


Well, Bikerman saved me some typing here....he summed up my feelings very well. I love my country, but I am not proud of it all of the time.
Ilmaarion
I'm from Italy and i'm not proud of my country right now.
Da Rossa
Right now I'm not very proud of saying I'm brazilian. The institions in here fail to give a impression of seriousness. And we can have a uneducated President who is proud of this fact.

If you don`t like America, then think twice. You're not likely to find a better place around the world.
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