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Warning on Tea Parties: KKK, neo-Nazis, White Supremacists





handfleisch
Not only was the last "Tea Party" confused about causes, propagandistic in methods, and corrupted by the FoxNews and Christian Right sponsorship, I noticed that they were looking a bit like "White Power" rallies. I guess I wasn't the only one who noticed: the Anti-Defamation League reports that white supremacists, neo-Nazis and anti-Semites have used the Tea Parties in the past, and will vigorously use the next “tea party” protests on July 4th in order to recruit new members.

Quote:
Extremists plan to recruit at Tea Parties

Stormfront, the most popular white supremacist Internet forum, is home to discussion between extremists eager to influence the events. In addition to circulating a list of local organizers and promoting planned rallies, Stormfront members are trying to find ways to involve themselves in the events. In posts to the forum, many voice their intent to attend the Tea parties for the purpose of cultivating an "organized grassroots White mass movement."


http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/White_Supremacists_July_4_Tea_Parties.htm





Please educate your friends, family and colleagues about this dangerous development.
Solon_Poledourus
The funniest thing about those "Tea(bag... heh) Parties" to me, was watching news organizations other than Fox cover them. The reporter would ask people what the rally was actually about, and nobody gave the same answer. It's sad how sheep-like people are.

As for the racist groups using the Teabag Parties for recruitment...
That should have been obvious from the beginning. Essentially, they are just anti-Obama rallies. And since they are so disorganized as to their actual cause, the only thing they all have in common is that they don't like Obama. Easy pickins for the Klan and other groups of that ilk.
jmi256
Solon_Poledourus wrote:
The funniest thing about those "Tea(bag... heh) Parties" to me, was watching news organizations other than Fox cover them. The reporter would ask people what the rally was actually about, and nobody gave the same answer. It's sad how sheep-like people are.

As for the racist groups using the Teabag Parties for recruitment...
That should have been obvious from the beginning. Essentially, they are just anti-Obama rallies. And since they are so disorganized as to their actual cause, the only thing they all have in common is that they don't like Obama. Easy pickins for the Klan and other groups of that ilk.



Just not true. As the original thread on this topic shows, there were many reasons that everyday taxpayers participated in the protests. Just because some networks decided to try to marginalize the protesters by ridiculing some of the participants doesn't detract from the vast majority's issues with big government. To claim that protesting big government while Obama is president is a racist act is laughable, but I'm not surprised that's it's coming from someone like Hangfleisch. One of the unifying themes was the response to a growing government. Handfleisch is just incapable of countering those arguments, so he decided to start a new thread that attempts to throw a red herring at the subject.

A thread dedicated to this topic already exists, so I suggest taking this conversation there and closing this thread. You can find it here:

Tea Party Protests
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-105689.html
handfleisch
jmi256 wrote:
Just not true. As the original thread on this topic shows, there were many reasons that everyday taxpayers participated in the protests. Just because some networks decided to try to marginalize the protesters by ridiculing some of the participants doesn't detract from the vast majority's issues with big government. To claim that protesting big government while Obama is president is a racist act is laughable, but I'm not surprised that's it's coming from someone like Hangfleisch. One of the unifying themes was the response to a growing government. Handfleisch is just incapable of countering those arguments, so he decided to start a new thread that attempts to throw a red herring at the subject.

Obviously you've drunk way too much Fox News KoolAid to see what's right in front of you and so you attack-when-you-have-no-defense. Nowhere did I say "protesting big government while Obama is president is a racist act", but you can apparently can imagine whole sentences at a time so you think I did. In fact if you would take off your blinders you would see it wasn't me but the Anti-Defamation League who reported this and Stormfront & company who is doing it, so it's hardly a red herring to point it out. Or maybe in your tinfoil fantasies the ADL and Stormfront are the same or something?

You don't really make any arguments to counter -- in fact you tea baggers cannot even agree on what you are protesting, since you say it's about tax increases, and your fellow TP fanclub member Moonspider vociferously denies the same. Maybe you two could compare talking points.
handfleisch
Solon_Poledourus wrote:
The funniest thing about those "Tea(bag... heh) Parties" to me, was watching news organizations other than Fox cover them. The reporter would ask people what the rally was actually about, and nobody gave the same answer. It's sad how sheep-like people are.

As for the racist groups using the Teabag Parties for recruitment...
That should have been obvious from the beginning. Essentially, they are just anti-Obama rallies. And since they are so disorganized as to their actual cause, the only thing they all have in common is that they don't like Obama. Easy pickins for the Klan and other groups of that ilk.


True. I would clarify one thing: the teaparties are in fact somewhat organized (Fox News, Christian right wing groups and large PR firms paid by the rich made sure of that), just not focused (as you say, ask ten tea baggers and get ten causes), and that's why they have been devolving into something ugly.
Solon_Poledourus
jimi256 wrote:
Just not true. As the original thread on this topic shows, there were many reasons that everyday taxpayers participated in the protests. Just because some networks decided to try to marginalize the protesters by ridiculing some of the participants doesn't detract from the vast majority's issues with big government.
By "disorganized", I meant that there was seemingly no clear goal for these protests. And the evidence of that was the large numbers of people who were there for drastically different reasons.
jimi256 wrote:
To claim that protesting big government while Obama is president is a racist act is laughable, but I'm not surprised that's it's coming from someone like Hangfleisch.
Oh good god... The point of the story was that because the vast majority of the participants were right-wing, conservative, Obama hating republicans, it makes the situation a bit easier for groups like the KKK and their kind to show up and attempt to recruit young, naive minds. I simply pointed out that the one thing all the teabaggers had in common was their disdain for Obama, which would be a good icebreaker for a Skinhead to begin recruiting a kid at the protest.
jimi256 wrote:
One of the unifying themes was the response to a growing government. Handfleisch is just incapable of countering those arguments, so he decided to start a new thread that attempts to throw a red herring at the subject.
We get it, you support the protests. That's fine. But that's not what this thread is about. This topic is about the threat of hate groups taking advantage of the situation. Essentially, Handfleisch was defending the tea party protests by warning people to be on the look-out for those hate groups who may attempt to corrupt the protests and use them to persuade naive people into joining their ranks.

There's no reason to move this to an already existing thread(much less one conveniently started by you). It is not about the tea parties themselves, it's about hate groups using the scenario to their advantage. When you become a mod, then you'll get to decide where threads ought to be.
deanhills
jmi256 wrote:
Solon_Poledourus wrote:
The funniest thing about those "Tea(bag... heh) Parties" to me, was watching news organizations other than Fox cover them. The reporter would ask people what the rally was actually about, and nobody gave the same answer. It's sad how sheep-like people are.

As for the racist groups using the Teabag Parties for recruitment...
That should have been obvious from the beginning. Essentially, they are just anti-Obama rallies. And since they are so disorganized as to their actual cause, the only thing they all have in common is that they don't like Obama. Easy pickins for the Klan and other groups of that ilk.



Just not true. As the original thread on this topic shows, there were many reasons that everyday taxpayers participated in the protests. Just because some networks decided to try to marginalize the protesters by ridiculing some of the participants doesn't detract from the vast majority's issues with big government. To claim that protesting big government while Obama is president is a racist act is laughable, but I'm not surprised that's it's coming from someone like Hangfleisch. One of the unifying themes was the response to a growing government. Handfleisch is just incapable of countering those arguments, so he decided to start a new thread that attempts to throw a red herring at the subject.

A thread dedicated to this topic already exists, so I suggest taking this conversation there and closing this thread. You can find it here:

Tea Party Protests
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-105689.html
Thanks jmi. I could not believe what I was reading until I found your sober response. And yes, it was very well covered in another thread and I seem to remember Moonspider in addition to you and Ocalhoun also made very good contributions to that discussion.
deanhills
Solon_Poledourus wrote:
Essentially, Handfleisch was defending the tea party protests by warning people to be on the look-out for those hate groups who may attempt to corrupt the protests and use them to persuade naive people into joining their ranks.
There's no reason to move this to an already existing thread(much less one conveniently started by you). It is not about the tea parties themselves, it's about hate groups using the scenario to their advantage. When you become a mod, then you'll get to decide where threads ought to be.
Solon, there was a very detailed discussion about this, which I think jmi tried to point out to you, which if you had read the details of it, you may have looked at this differently. Handfleisch was obviously knocking that discussion. We knew, as we had participated in the discussion.

Solon_Poledourus wrote:
Essentially, Handfleisch was defending the tea party protests by warning people to be on the look-out for those hate groups who may attempt to corrupt the protests and use them to persuade naive people into joining their ranks.

There's no reason to move this to an already existing thread(much less one conveniently started by you). It is not about the tea parties themselves, it's about hate groups using the scenario to their advantage. When you become a mod, then you'll get to decide where threads ought to be.
Your perception Solon. And a much better reasoned one than Handfleisch's, but given the previous discussion I cannot agree that this is correct. Handfleisch in that thread was completely against tea parties. Do yourself a favour and read the thread and you will see that this thread is a continuation of that one. The "hate rallies" were already his point of view in that thread and very thoroughly debated:

handfleisch wrote:
Given this video of some proud Tea Partiers, we have to ask to what extent the Parties were just White Power, Anti-Obama rallies.

From the video:
Quote:

"He's not my president"
"He hates America. At least white America"
"Closet Muslim"
"I'd like to stick a knife in his eye"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTyFcazpdzU

During the anti-Islam hysteria a few years ago, Muslims were called on to denounce terrorism, in order to make it clear where they stood. With this week's anniversary of the Oklahoma City terrorist bombings in mind, the question has to be asked: Do you Tea Partiers denounce this White Power racism and the threats on the life of the President?
handfleisch
Solon_Poledourus wrote:
It is not about the tea parties themselves, it's about hate groups using the scenario to their advantage.

Exactly.

There is something alarming going on in the US, and it's getting worse really quickly. Essentially the right wing forces, because of the repudiation of their message and the rejection of the Republican Party in the last two election cycles, are lashing out like a desperate, wounded animal. Racist hate groups, due to the election of an African American president, are doing the same. Major, national voices of the right, that have in the past been pushed as legitimate but are in fact from the right wing fringe, are saying things that I couldn't have imagined passing for decent debate in America. Look at what Rep. Tom Tancredo, Limbaugh, the usual Fox News propagandists and of course scores of talk radio shills are saying lately, and you would think we live in 1930's, not the 21st century.

It's a critical time in the US and we have work for basic sanity, basic common sense -- not participate in propaganda rallies that are organized, funded and used by the right wing extremists.
deanhills
Were the hate groups the only ones attending the Tea Parties, what was their percentage attendance?

The following is a more balanced view (Wikipedia):
Quote:
The Tea Party protests are a series of locally organized protests across the United States, beginning in 2009, most of which have developed into nationally coordinated events. The events are in protest of President Obama, his budget and, more specifically, his stimulus package, which the protesters perceive as examples of wasteful government spending and unnecessary government growth. The protesters also objected to future tax increases, including those on capital gains and dividends, energy, and those earning more than $250,000 a year, resulting in many of the protests being held on April 15, 2009 to coincide with the annual U.S. deadline for submitting tax returns.

Estimates of the total number of protesters nationwide at the April 15, 2009 Tea Party protests range from 240,000 to more than 500,000.

The protesters demanded action, requesting reductions in the business tax rate, investment in energy and transportation infrastructure, a new power grid and air-traffic control system, abolishment of taxes on capital gains, replacement of Sarbanes-Oxley, drilling for more oil and building nuclear power plants, abolishing the estate tax, and moving to a balanced budget. The name "Tea Party" is a reference to the Boston Tea Party, and the protests have sought to evoke images, slogans, and themes from the American Revolution. The letters T, E and A have been used by protesters to form the backronym "Taxed Enough Already."

Volunteers promoted Tax Day events on blogs, Twitter and Facebook. Reaction to the Tea Parties included a few counter-protests expressing support for the Obama administration and dismissive, even mocking media coverage of the events and their promoters such as Fox News.
ocalhoun
Solon_Poledourus wrote:
We get it, you support the protests. That's fine. But that's not what this thread is about. This topic is about the threat of hate groups taking advantage of the situation. Essentially, Handfleisch was defending the tea party protests by warning people to be on the look-out for those hate groups who may attempt to corrupt the protests and use them to persuade naive people into joining their ranks.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that it was just handfleisch once again attacking the protests based on who was involved rather than what they were about.

handfleisch wrote:
I noticed that they were looking a bit like "White Power" rallies.


It's an old scheme used often by liberals:
Most (white) racists are conservatives. ->
Conservatives are racists ->
Racists are bad and should be scorned ->
Conservatives are bad and should be scorned.

Personally, I'm very tired of seeing the 'race card' played. Racism is not a new and dangerous development, nor is it increasing. It is on the way out, mainly only still existing in the minds of those too old to change their ways, or those who benefit from it being around.
Moonspider
handfleisch wrote:
Not only was the last "Tea Party" confused about causes, propagandistic in methods, and corrupted by the FoxNews and Christian Right sponsorship, I noticed that they were looking a bit like "White Power" rallies. I guess I wasn't the only one who noticed: the Anti-Defamation League reports that white supremacists, neo-Nazis and anti-Semites have used the Tea Parties in the past, and will vigorously use the next “tea party” protests on July 4th in order to recruit new members.


In my opinion, you are using the article to smear the Tea Parties, taking the entire article out of context and trying to make the Tea Parties look like dangerous veils covering racist extremism. The article never implied that. It simply stated that white supremacists groups are planning to try and recruit at some of these events, as they have at other political movements like the Ron Paul campaign and immigration debate.

White supremacists commonly march and try to recruit members at parades and other public events in the South. However that doesn't make Christmas or Fourth of July parades south of the Mason-Dixon line dangerous assemblies providing cover for racism.

Respectfully,
M
Solon_Poledourus
deanhills wrote:
Solon, there was a very detailed discussion about this, which I think jmi tried to point out to you, which if you had read the details of it, you may have looked at this differently. Handfleisch was obviously knocking that discussion. We knew, as we had participated in the discussion.
I read the other thread. I still think this is about something other than the TEAbag protests themselves.
Moonspider wrote:
White supremacists commonly march and try to recruit members at parades and other public events in the South. However that doesn't make Christmas or Fourth of July parades south of the Mason-Dixon line dangerous assemblies providing cover for racism.
I agree, but this isn't about the TEAbag parties taking place in the south. It's about a group of people who all have in common their hatred of a black President. I know that most of them don't hate Obama for being black, but that's the point: because he is black, and because all the protesters dislike him, it creates a much more suitable environment for the hate groups to recruit.

Has anyone here been to one of these protests?
I have. In March I worked at one, just as I have worked at concerts and sporting events and many other large gatherings of people. What I saw was a large group of people who, for whatever reasons, showed alot of anger and disdain for Obama. In fact, my partner and I jokingly commented that it looked like a thinly veiled Klan rally. There were people wearing and selling "Obama-bin-Laden" T-shirts, groups were chanting "go back to Kenya", etc. There was alot of hate. Maybe they were mad about taxes, but that's not what it looked like. While I didn't see any skinheads or Klan members wearing their sheets, I definitely saw the potential for someone to turn some kids disdain of Obama into outright race hatred.
ocalhoun wrote:
Personally, I'm very tired of seeing the 'race card' played. Racism is not a new and dangerous development, nor is it increasing. It is on the way out, mainly only still existing in the minds of those too old to change their ways, or those who benefit from it being around.
That's very true, and I am sick of the race card crap too. Unfortunately, some of the people who benefit from racism's existence see these protests as having very fertile ground to push their agenda. If I were a Klan member, I would see a group of people gathering to protest the President about taxes or whatever. Conveniently, the President is black, and the people at the protests don't just disagree with his policy, they actually HATE him. There are alot of young and naive people attending these protests. I would see this as one of the best opportunities to recruit new bodies for my cause.

Maybe handfleisch has an agenda to bash the protests for whatever reasons, I don't know. But I think that the potential for elevated recruitment of hate groups at these protests is a valid topic on it's own.
deanhills
Solon_Poledourus wrote:

Has anyone here been to one of these protests?

If you look closer there are two pages in the thread we have been trying to refer you to: http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-105689.html Maybe you missed the first page, which shows a discussion by Frihosters who attended TEAparties, and they reported about their experiences during that thread. Perhaps the TEAParty you attended was not representative of the norm?:

psleang wrote:
Thanks for starting this thread, jmi256!

I just attended the Tea Party in Washington, D.C. The weather was miserable: 45F and raining. But some estimates I've seen claim that 2000 people showed up. That seems reasonable to me. It was basically closed down at 2:00pm because someone threw a box or bag of tea at the White House. It's not clear whether the person was affiliated with the Tea Party demonstration.

All in all, I think things went well. I've never been to a protest and I was worried that it would be dominated by nut-cases, but that wasn't the case. There were a few people there spouting oddities. There were also quite a few signs there that focused on Obama. I think that was a bad idea and somewhat counter-productive. A protest like this would be more effective if it stayed apolitical. Everyone needs to remember that both parties are responsible for the mess that is the current political system.

UPDATE: I forgot to mention that the event was scheduled to take place in BOTH Lafayette Square and outside the Treasury Dept., but the permit for the Treasury Dept. was cancelled at the last minute because the Secret Service had concerns about security. (That's the story we were told by event organizers, at least.)


ocalhoun wrote:
I went to mine! Rapid City is tiny and isolated, but still, well over 200 people showed up, despite the weather. Seeing that many people in one place is very unusual way out here. Hopefully a few politicians will get the message.

And no, there weren't any wackos... Except for me, perhaps.

psleang wrote:
A protest like this would be more effective if it stayed apolitical.

Quite so. As a libertarian, I was glad that it didn't end up as a republican party rally.


Moonspider wrote:
I attended the protest in Modesto, California. It lasted from 11:00am to 6:00pm. I was there for about 90 minutes late in the day and about 200 or so were in attendance at the time. However a lot of people were coming and going. I spoke with a woman collecting signatures on letters to senators and representatives and she claimed to have collected 4,000 signatures since she started at about 10:30am.

I was pleased to see ours was not related to any political party, just a lot of Americans upset with the course of our government.

Respectfully,
M


bigt wrote:
gandalfthegrey wrote:
I applaud their efforts, but sadly the sentiment of most people are like that of Jon Stewart reporting on the Daily Show about the Tea Party protests.


I don't care to watch Jon Stewart much. He's not a journalist, but people take him for one every day. I guess I'm also now considered one of those "Right-Wing Nuts" b/c I love the USA and think we should follow the Constitution. And I believe like the Founding Fathers. Haven't found my name in that crazy report.....yet Smile

And, yes, I went to a TEA Party yesterday. There were several hundred people there. No, they're not Republican or Democratic "things". TEA Party's are about stopping the government waste on both sides. Bush did not stop the over-spending and Pres. B.H.O. has increased spending by many times Bush's. But, the ultimate root of the problem is still going strong....Congress. It's the policies of Congress that got us into all this mess in the first place. They have not figured that out or owned up to it, and Congress keeps trying to spend everyone else's money!

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy." - W. Churchill
jmi256
I've been too busy to reply as much as would have liked, but I'll try to tie a few thoughts on this thread together.

handfleisch wrote:

There is something alarming going on in the US, and it's getting worse really quickly. Essentially the right wing forces, because of the repudiation of their message and the rejection of the Republican Party in the last two election cycles, are lashing out like a desperate, wounded animal. Racist hate groups, due to the election of an African American president, are doing the same. Major, national voices of the right, that have in the past been pushed as legitimate but are in fact from the right wing fringe, are saying things that I couldn't have imagined passing for decent debate in America. Look at what Rep. Tom Tancredo, Limbaugh, the usual Fox News propagandists and of course scores of talk radio shills are saying lately, and you would think we live in 1930's, not the 21st century.


While I think the sentiments of your comment above are totally off the mark, I was going to compliment you on at least an organized and interesting topic/response. Then I realized you simply cut and paste some comments from another forum. Tsk, tsk, handfleisch. You know better.

Quote:

I see something alarming going on in the US and it's getting worse. Essentially the right wing forces, because of the repudiation of their message and the rejection of the Republican Party in the last two election cycles, are lashing out like a wounded animal. Also lashing out in desperation, because of the election of an African American president, are racist hate groups as represented by the neo-Nazis and white supremacists at Stormfront. These two are combining in the "tea parties", a series of public protests organized and promoted by FOX News, Christian Right extremists and major PR firms funded by powerful, wealthy conservative interests, which Stormfront groups are using to recruit new members. Moreover, national voices of the right that have in the past been pushed as legitimate but rhetorically belong in the right wing fringe are starting to make racially-slanted statements that should not pass for decent debate in America. Look at what these media voices and politicians such as Rep. Tom Tancredo are saying lately and you would think we live in 1930's, not the 21st century.

Source = http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5752491

Now when I first joined Frihost and didn't know about the policy toward (and more importantly how to) attributing original content. I once made the mistake of copying content and not properly attributing it. Bikerman set me straight and I have been religious on making sure I attribute correctly. So if you were new to this forum I would sympathize and give you the benefit of the doubt. But given your long history on this site, Handfleisch, and the fact that you have attributed content in the past (also erroneously and inaccurately at times), I think the above just shows that you are so hell-bent on proving a "point" that you are willing to twist reality to fit your views. The fact that you changed a few words here and there shows that your actions were deliberate, and not just a matter of forgetting to add the attribution.

ocalhoun wrote:

Actually, I'm pretty sure that it was just handfleisch once again attacking the protests based on who was involved rather than what they were about.

It's an old scheme used often by liberals:
Most (white) racists are conservatives. ->
Conservatives are racists ->
Racists are bad and should be scorned ->
Conservatives are bad and should be scorned.


Good points. It has been their MO to avoid talking about the issues, but rather "reframe" the discussion to take shots at the people involved. The entire point of this thread seems to be to associate all the protesters as racist because some people with that mindset attended the rallies. Moonspider's comparison to Christmas and July 4th parades is spot on. Any time you put more two or more people together you'll get different opinions and points of view. Some of them will be off base, such as racism, but that doesn't negate the overall purpose and focus of the rallies: protesting larger more repressive government.

As ocalhoun, deanhills, Moonspider and I have pointed out several times, all this was hashed out in the original thread. I was not trying to drive traffic to that thread because I created it, but rather to point out that this topic has been hashed out already. Handfleisch was unable to counter the arguments and criticism of his wacky "opinions" (wherever he was given them), so he basically started a new thread to "reframe" the issue. Just more of the same. Again, here's the original thread:
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-105689.html

handfleisch wrote:

Not only was the last "Tea Party" confused about causes, propagandistic in methods, and corrupted by the FoxNews...


This conspiracy theory crap is getting is getting old. If you have some proof, back it up. If not, please the tin foil hat away.

OMG! One network out of how many actually reported about everyday citizens protesting a large, oppressive and wasteful government, and they actually let protesters' the point of view be heard rather than trying to ridicule and marginalize them. Definitely signs of a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. You better notify the authorities. You don't want anyone going off script now do you?

handfleisch
jmi256 wrote:

Now when I first joined Frihost and didn't know about the policy toward (and more importantly how to) attributing original content. I once made the mistake of copying content and not properly attributing it. Bikerman set me straight and I have been religious on making sure I attribute correctly. So if you were new to this forum I would sympathize and give you the benefit of the doubt. But given your long history on this site, Handfleisch, and the fact that you have attributed content in the past (also erroneously and inaccurately at times), I think the above just shows that you are so hell-bent on proving a "point" that you are willing to twist reality to fit your views. The fact that you changed a few words here and there shows that your actions were deliberate, and not just a matter of forgetting to add the attribution.
...

This conspiracy theory crap is getting is getting old. If you have some proof, back it up. If not, please the tin foil hat away.

OMG! One network out of how many actually reported about everyday citizens protesting a large, oppressive and wasteful government, and they actually let protesters' the point of view be heard rather than trying to ridicule and marginalize them. Definitely signs of a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. You better notify the authorities. You don't want anyone going off script now do you?


Wrong again, Jimi. It is original content because I wrote it. I posted it on DU because tons of people read that site -- unlike Frihost, the political forum is not dominated by a small handful of posters so dense they make lead look like cork. See what happens when you try to be clever? You got your ass caught in your own gotcha, and the thought of you googling my posts in your lonely internet hours is just sad.

Now it's "conspiracy theory" to cite a well known fact, that Fox News was the main promoter of the Tea Parties. You even admit that it was, and then ask for "proof"! Honestly, get out of your parent's basement and find some fresh air.

As I have said before, I'm glad the small percentage that are still vocal wingnuts have marginal internet forums to vent little fringe opinions while the country is moving on and leaving them in the dust. And that's why I sort of approve of the tea parties, because they are bringing out in the light of day the kooks and fools so the rest of the country can recoil in distaste.
jmi256
handfleisch wrote:

Wrong again, Jimi. It is original content because I wrote it. I posted it on DU because tons of people read that site -- unlike Frihost, the political forum is not dominated by a small handful of posters so dense they make lead look like cork. See what happens when you try to be clever? You got your ass caught in your own gotcha, and the thought of you googling my posts in your lonely internet hours is just sad.


If you actually wrote the content, then as I said above I would compliment you on a well-organized and thoughtful response, even if it is off the mark. Given your history of questionable sources and made-up "information" and news I'm sure you can understand why I was skeptical. But if I was wrong, I apologize.

However, equating a loss in an election and criticism of a president who just happens to be black as a sign that almost 50% of the population (those who voted against Obama) is racist is laughable. Criticism of rising taxes and a growing government is not a racist act.


handfleisch wrote:
Now it's "conspiracy theory" to cite a well known fact, that Fox News was the main promoter of the Tea Parties. You even admit that it was, and then ask for "proof"! Honestly, get out of your parent's basement and find some fresh air.


I never said Fox News "promoted" anything. just that they reported on the protests while other networks decided to deride and ridicule protestors instead. I say it's one of your conspiracy theories because you keep making this wild claim that all these forces (which you then also claim are a small, powerless minority) have conspired to control the masses. If it walks and talks like a wild conspiracy theory, it follows that it is one.
Moonspider
jmi256 wrote:
I never said Fox News "promoted" anything. just that they reported on the protests while other networks decided to deride and ridicule protestors instead.


I tend to agree with that point. Fox News promoted their coverage of the events, not the events themselves. I didn't see Fox News do anything differently than they did for the Democratic and GOP conventions in 2008.

Respectfully,
M
handfleisch
Moonspider wrote:
jmi256 wrote:
I never said Fox News "promoted" anything. just that they reported on the protests while other networks decided to deride and ridicule protestors instead.


I tend to agree with that point. Fox News promoted their coverage of the events, not the events themselves. I didn't see Fox News do anything differently than they did for the Democratic and GOP conventions in 2008.

Respectfully,
M


Fox News didn't cover the Tea Parties, they encouraged participation in the protests. Here is a voluminous documentation of this www.mediamatters.org/reports/200904080025

And a couple minutes of examples of the inanity www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jfffjkTieo. Check out the FOX so-called reporter talk about the "fascism" the protest are opposing. Kindly leave your brain at home, I guess.
jmi256
handfleisch wrote:

Fox News didn't cover the Tea Parties, they encouraged participation in the protests. Here is a voluminous documentation...


You're using "Media Matters" as a reference? Couldn't you find a reliable source? Of course they are going to try to discredit the Tax Day Protestors. They are a liberal organization whose sole purpose is to confuse and skew. The staff consists of Democratic Party/Liberal staffers, lobbyists, bloggers and all-around kooks. Check out their staff page:
http://mediamatters.org/p/about_us/staff_advisors


handfleisch wrote:
And a couple minutes of examples of the inanity www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jfffjkTieo. Check out the FOX so-called reporter talk about the "fascism" the protest are opposing. Kindly leave your brain at home, I guess.


The link didn't work for me.
handfleisch
jmi256 wrote:
The staff consists of Democratic Party/Liberal staffers, lobbyists, bloggers and all-around kooks.


You forgot to mention conspiracy theorists! Come on, don't slack, Jimi. Your willful ignorance is much less entertaining without your usual charges of conspiracy theory.
handfleisch
In addition to the promotion by Republican organ FOX News, the astroturfing (fake grassroots) of the Tea Parties came through the corporate lobbyist groups FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity with some major support by Christian extremist group America Family Association.

from Sourcewatch.org:
Quote:
According to its website in February, 2009, "FreedomWorks is now working with other groups to plan a massive, nationwide tea party protest day for Tax Day on April 15th, 2009" [4], the Tax Day Tea Party protests.

In 2008, FreedomWorks was behind the creation of a fake grassroots web site called Angryrenter.com which rallies opposition to "the Obama Housing Bailout." The site urges people to oppose bailing out mortgage companies. The site claims to represent "Renters and responsible homeowners against a government mortgage bailout."


Freedom Works' boss is former Texas Republican Representative Dick Armey. During its Tea Party organizing, FreedomWorks was found to have set up numerous websites Tea Party websites that all looked independent but were in fact made by Freedom Works.

From the piece in The Atlantic
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/04/the_tea_party_movement_whos_in_charge.php
we get more
Quote:
They are: FreedomWorks, the conservative action group led by Dick Armey; dontGO, a tech savvy free-market action group that sprung out of last August's oil-drilling debate in the House of Representatives; and Americans for Prosperity, an issue advocacy/activist group based on free market principles. Conservative bloggers, talk show hosts, and other media figures have attached themselves to the movement in peripheral capacities. Armey will appear at a major rally in Atlanta, FreedomWorks said.


Americans for Prosperity boss is Tim Phillips, a former partner of right-wing Christian activist Ralph Reed in the lobbying firm Century Strategies. Americans for Prosperity has done a lot of pro-oil company “grassroots” events and according to Phillips own bio:
Quote:
During the 2000 GOP primaries, Tim helped spearhead Century's national efforts on behalf of George Walker Bush's campaign for president. Beginning in 1999 and continuing through the nomination, Century provided direct mail, telemarketing, coalition building and strategic services to Bush for President.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Timothy_R._Phillips

A more forthright appraisal here
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/09/lobbyists-planning-teaparties/
Quote:

– Freedom Works staffers coordinate conference calls among protesters, contacting conservative activists to give them “sign ideas, sample press releases, and a map of events around the country.”

– Freedom Works staffers apparently moved to “take over” the planning of local events in Florida.

– Freedom Works provides how-to guides for delivering a “clear message” to the public and media.

– Freedom Works has several domain addresses — some of them made to look like they were set up by amateurs — to promote the protests.

– Americans for Prosperity is writing press releases and planning the events in New Jersey, Arizona, New Hampshire, Missouri, Kansas, and several other states.

This type of corporate ‘astroturfing‘ is nothing new to either organization. While working to promote Social Security privatization, Freedom Works was caught planting one of its operatives as a “single mom” to ask questions to President Bush in a town hall on the subject. Last year, the Wall Street Journal exposed Freedom Works for similarly building “amateur-looking” websites to promote the lobbying interests of Dick Armey, the former Republican Majority Leader who now leads Freedom Works and is a lobbyist for the firm DLA Piper.


Not to mention the fringe of Donald Wildmon and his American Family Association, obsessed with fighting "the homosexual agenda", who have been heavily pushing the Tea Party past and future:

Quote:
The AFA sponsored TEA Party Day rallies were a smashing success! Hundreds of thousands attended approximately 3,000 rallies. Your AFA sponsored over 2,000 rallies. But the mainstream media and the "tax and spend" members of Congress still don't get it. So get ready for the American Freedom Day TEA Party rallies on July 4. Our goal is to double the number of cities in which AFA sponsors rallies.

http://faq.afa.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=331&Itemid=35

More on AFA, which also has problems with the PTA!
Quote:

"But the National PTA continued right along, increasingly becoming a tool to promote a left-wing philosophy instead of helping the children with their educational needs. The latest project for the National PTA is the promotion of the homosexual agenda…Stop the PTA from using your children to promote their left-wing political agenda. "— Don Wildmon, AFA Journal, February 2001
...
California director for AFA was Scott Lively of Abiding Truth Ministries and the Pro-Family Law Center. Lively is a long-time anti-gay activist who has written such books as The Pink Swastika which claims that "homosexuals [are] the true inventors of Nazism and the guiding force behind many Nazi atrocities." [From the The Pink Swastika preface.] Lively has also written 7 Steps to Recruit-Proof Your Child and The Poisoned Stream: "Gay" Influence in Human History. Under his leadership, AFA California launched the "California Campaign to Take Back the Schools" to stop the "homosexualization of American public schools."

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/american-family-association

So, in addition to the FOX News promotion, organizers of the Tea Parties include well-funded, highly staffed PR firms representing such things as Big Oil and privatization of Social Security, headed by major Republicans, as well as large Christian extremist organizations. Does this sound like grassroots?
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:
In addition to the promotion by Republican organ FOX News,
Factually wrong that it was promoted by Fox News. Surely when news agencies reported on the Middle East War in January, they were not promoting the war? Or when News Agencies were reporting on the presidential elections they were not promoting the elections. So how can you say Fox News promoted the tea parties?
Solon_Poledourus
deanhills wrote:
Factually wrong that it was promoted by Fox News. Surely when news agencies reported on the Middle East War in January, they were not promoting the war? Or when News Agencies were reporting on the presidential elections they were not promoting the elections. So how can you say Fox News promoted the tea parties?
We have determined that all the major media outlets are owned by 5 corporations with heavy political ties. If a news agency covers an event, it is essentially promoting it by proxy(regardless of which side of the political aisle you think the news agency or event is on, they all work for each other).

But this is all rather silly. The TEA party protests are a smoke screen, just like Obamas' entire Presidency. As long as we are all arguing about Dem vs. Rep, left and right, etc., then we are not making any headway into what is actually going on behind the curtains in Washington. And that's exactly how our leaders want us: arguing with each other while truly ignorant to their actual motives.
deanhills
Solon_Poledourus wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Factually wrong that it was promoted by Fox News. Surely when news agencies reported on the Middle East War in January, they were not promoting the war? Or when News Agencies were reporting on the presidential elections they were not promoting the elections. So how can you say Fox News promoted the tea parties?
We have determined that all the major media outlets are owned by 5 corporations with heavy political ties.
I thought we had argued that the major media outlets had heavy Government ties? Which would prove what Moonspider was saying, that Fox News might have promoted the timings of the events, such as one would do with timings of elections, but not taking a position in the events themselves. That would be suicide to do surely they would lose their credibility as a news agency if they took such a blatant and open political position.
Solon_Poledourus
deanhills wrote:
That would be suicide to do surely they would lose their credibility as a news agency if they took such a blatant and open political position.
Have you ever watched FOX news? Or MSNBC? They ALL take very blatant political stances. News agencies have been known to fire employees for having political views that differ from the status quo of their employers. The major news outlets like FOX and MSNBC, quite often take a side, either implicitly or explicitly. I see FOX doing it more explicitly than most, and if you watch hacks like Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilley, you are sure to see their extreme bias towards everything republican. Keith Oberman does the same thing for the left.

As for handfleischs' assertion that FOX promoted the TEA parties, check this out: Sean Hannity at a TEA party. The first minute of this clip is the most blatant promotion anyone could think of mustering. I can't see how anyone could think that these protests were not promoted by FOX news(among others). For weeks before the protests started, FOX and other news agencies were aggressively advertising them, which I'm sure had a positive effect on the number of people who attended. Neil Cavuto(among others) of FOX said "you can bet the main stream media won't even be covering these protests", in order to make it seem like a genuine grass roots movement. Except that FOX always claims to be the #1 cable news network, which would be about as mainstream as you can get.
deanhills wrote:
Fox News might have promoted the timings of the events, such as one would do with timings of elections, but not taking a position in the events themselves.
They did both. They promoted the timing, and as you can see in the commercialization in the above clip, they definitely took a stance. Regardless of what you may think of the protests themselves, whether you agree with them or not, it is plainly obvious(if you do a bit of Googling or YouTube searching) that FOX and their allies promoted the holy hell out of these protests.
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