I want to start coding again. I haven't in over 10 years. I have some familiarity with C, C++ and some Visual Basic, SQL Server. I don't remember anything aprt from general principles of programming.
The objective of learning such a language is to put up a hobby website based around content and community and hopefully if things pick then turn it into an enterprise service.
Please suggest what web oriented language I should be learning. On my shortlist are:
PHP
Perl
Python
Partly for reasons of availability of development tools and to avoid the expense of expensive OS & software choices and the general open source movement, I have chosen to stay away from proprietary platforms like .NET and J2EE.
If you think this thought process is misguided, please do mention the same.
Cheers
Chirag
Last edited by chiragpatnaik on Fri May 01, 2009 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it.
| tocapa wrote: |
| I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it. |
I have heard this warning about PHP again and again... So obviously something is to said of this advice.
Do you have any recommendations for books or resources to start learning pythonWhy avoid PHP ? World is moving towards web 2.0, if you know PHP , i feel you will be at good position.
Plus Latest PHP version(PHP 6) has desktop software creation support.So i feel PHP will be in demand soon.
Don't know about Python much, but Its better to know Perl , because its used like a general purpose requirement, it lies in category of Shell scripting.
Java and .Net will never loose its importance, So i don't see any hazards in staying away from them
I always thought it was good to know software that does coding so there is no hard coding?
| tocapa wrote: |
| I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it. |
I am very interested to know why you said to avoid PHP.learn perl, it has the largest library set and a better web integration than any other language...
Whatever you learn... just be good at it. EOS
| Faraz wrote: |
| tocapa wrote: | | I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it. |
I am very interested to know why you said to avoid PHP. |
I too would like to know why he should avoid PHP? What's wrong with it?I would say PHP is the best language for WWW programming and I am saying that because a very large number of open source projects use it, a large number of sites use it (facebook for example) and I know very large corporate internet sites using it.
Python is an upcoming new language which has evolved very quickly, and that is probably the down side of it too, it is changing so much so often that developers and large organizations are reluctant to commit to python as new versions require major code changes. It has no doubt proven itself and has a large number of libraries built in. So it will be my second choice, however since it is object oriented it should not be very hard to learn if you know PHP inside out 
.
Perl would be my third preference for web programming, it is not because it is a bad or weak programming language, far from it. It is very powerful and very flexible, but perhaps for WWW programming it is not the best one out there. It is suited to many other tasks that above two can't do very well.
In theory, the important bit is to know concepts/theories/problem solving techniques. You can pretty much get on top of any mainstream language pretty quick if you put your foot down. Python is my choice of a language to master. It's an amazing intuitive and powerful language that serves multi-purpose tasks. It's also been adopted by a lot of third party softwares to provide users some easy to use API.
U can develop your own libraries with python and it's really flexible as programing language. I doubt a little about perl, maybe ajax would have a higher priority in present times as well as java?
I should say, learn them all ! If you know one, you will get introduced more easy in another language.
For normal interaction and webbased applications I would advise PHP. But if you want to develop an application that needs more server sided power, I would advise Java. I saw you did not want to use J2EE, but it is powerful and there are free platforms for it...
I only can suggest to you, explore them all 3, or even more... (Ruby is a great option). I prefer PHP, but I cant tell you that you must prefer it or use it because I do. It's so inmoral.
PHP, my friend. Learn PHP.
PHP is easy to learn and it has the value to market yourself. You can learn PHP and some UI (user interface) oriented languages such as XHTML, CSS and JavaScript.
Perl is good too, but since PHP is moving faster than any other language, I would take the PHP first and would learn the alternatives later.
I would definitely suggest that you learn PHP for web development. PHP is widely used and supported and I think it is fairly easy. I don't know why people are saying to avoid it. I really like Python but I only know how to use it for offline purposes. I have no experience with Perl so I can't comment on that.
with the question what languages is the question what do you want to build ??
a windows program > C# ( runs with microsoft framework, so cant run on a mac or lunix)
a multi os program > C++ ( runs on every OS with little changes to the UI )
a web-based program > php ( php is the way to build a real website )
| traxion wrote: |
with the question what languages is the question what do you want to build ??
a windows program > C# ( runs with microsoft framework, so cant run on a mac or lunix)
a multi os program > C++ ( runs on every OS with little changes to the UI )
a web-based program > php ( php is the way to build a real website ) |
Well said Traxion. PHP for web programming and C++ for platform independent desktop applications are enough, but someone can still learn Java, Perl, Python, VB and ASP for fun. 
Ruby on Rails is popular with several programmers I know.
Look into multi physics parrallel programming. Industries want that more than anything. Building a community around multi physics parrallel programming will attract some high dollar people and oportunities.
| tocapa wrote: |
| I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it. |
Yeah, I also don't know why you would say that. what is your experience? My experience is that PHP works really well, and it's great for small to mid-size projects, and also for large project if done well.
Anyway, if you want to be a good programmer, the number of languages you know isn't going to make you that. I think a good programmer is one that can solve a problem regardless of the language they need to implement it on.
As you may already know, most programming languages have major similarities. You don't need to relearn those every time you learn a new language. When working on a project, the language should be the last of your concerns.
I'm most familiar with C/C++ and PHP. I have never worked with Java before, but I have my part of a project due within a month. I took a few minutes to familiarize myself with it and the syntax is practically the same. One noticeable difference is that Java is a strictly OO language, and that a lot of the memory checking stuff is done automatically.
I can't think of any other languages to suggest other than PHP. I would suggest Java, but I think you said you want stay away from it. Even though it's not a language, I would also suggest learning Ajax programming techniques, you can do some pretty cool stuff with that.Maybe stay away from web programing and stioc with C/C++ it is one of the best, reliable, and oldest coding languages so with that knowledge yopu can achieve a lot. I went to school in an american university with computer science major but I didnt learn programming and now I cant find a decenet job, learn C++ and be really good at it because programming is the highest paying job in the market right now
PHP is easy , so you can learn PHP first.
| keane wrote: |
| Faraz wrote: | | tocapa wrote: | | I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it. |
I am very interested to know why you said to avoid PHP. |
I too would like to know why he should avoid PHP? What's wrong with it? |
the hell...there's no wrong about php, it just happen some people find it hard for them to understand its advantages. I'm a php programmer and i found out this php is better than others.. 
| Cddhesh wrote: |
Why avoid PHP ? World is moving towards web 2.0, if you know PHP , i feel you will be at good position.
Plus Latest PHP version(PHP 6) has desktop software creation support.So i feel PHP will be in demand soon.
Don't know about Python much, but Its better to know Perl , because its used like a general purpose requirement, it lies in category of Shell scripting.
Java and .Net will never loose its importance, So i don't see any hazards in staying away from them |
PHP£¬sounds good^^PHP is easy to setup and learn, there are a lot of free resources on internet. There are also Java web applications, not that easy to setup first time but from my experiences, definitely more respected than PHP. Whatever you choose, after you learn the language you’ll have to learn other open source projects to help you implement everything you need in you application.
I should say if you know one, you will get introduced more easy in another language.
good post, i started learning with php, got confused a bit ^^
It is easy to start with PHP
i'd say learn vb.net. My mother uses it as a programmer and just the applications of that language are quite amazing.
But if you're into gaming, c++ is the way to go, even small rpgs can be quite powerful if written in c++
I wonder why you stopped coding 10 years ago.
I have a hobby website which you can see below.
10 years ago I started getting into Java and took my first Sun certification 2 days before christmas in 2000 and I got my second Sun Certification in 2004.
Sadly I don't use Java anymore as there are far more affective coding alternatives out there.
I find it very easy to get what I need done very quickly on the server with PHP but if you really want a job then you might need to know Java and/or .net. Reason?
BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE BIG COMPANIES HAVE INVESTED IN IT.
Also, I have suggested PHP for your toy website. That is server side coding, be aware also that you need advanced Javascript skills also for "client side" programming.
Javascript has a certain stigma about it but you can use nearly all the OO skills to code that side of your website.
Php is the most favorite programming language . So if you want to learning again i think php language
I find that learning PHP is easy and there are many websites from where we can learn it. I yet not tried python or java but have a plan to try those.
can i use DW as my editor and my design buddy at the same time? im interested in learning php but im just a newbie.
Python and PHP are both good, relatively simple and yet powerful languages. Python is frequently said to be able to do many things beyond the normal expectations that one would set for a programming language.
Really depends on what you're looking to program. I'd say php is quite useful as far as web development goes, and I think that any programmer should know this at some point.
Right now I'm into C# programming myself, but I started out learning from PHP, then I went to Visual Basic .NET, then I switched to (and forced myself to learn) C# , and I've been doing C# for about a year and a half... might be 2 years, can't really remember when I started.
But , knowing those 3 languages, I can easily pick up on others. For example, most of my programming has been learned by code examples and such. What I try to do is port the example code which might be in ... say.. C++ .. and I'll try to re-write it in a C# syntax.
Anyways, Perl is also nice to learn since it cross-platform, and it can be similar to C/C++ and , in my opinion, php.
Python, I haven't looked into it much, mostly because the syntax of the language turns me off. I find that it's like visual basic, and I'm so used to ending each line with a semicolon. Don't get me wrong though, it's a powerful language, but it's just not for me.
Java , I've never really got into, but I don't really like it either. Just for the fact that it's slow. I like how it's cross platform and all, and also the fact that it's very similar to C#'s syntax, not to mention that it comes with some very cool built in library stuff. Again, not for me simply for the speed.
C/C++ are something you'll probably want to learn eventually. I myself am still trying to learn it. Perhaps this summer I'll "force" myself into learning that like I did with vb to C#.
Also, for those of you saying that you can't run .NET applications on linux or mac, Think again. You've obviously never heard of mono 
, though I can't say I use, or even like it, it DOES exist.
Anyways , some other languages that you might be interested in are Ruby and Lua. I think that if you know Python and Perl or Php, then you should be able to pick up on those 2 fairly easily. this website ranks the most popular programming languages in terms of the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. The popular search engines Google, MSN, Yahoo!, Wikipedia and YouTube are used to calculate the ratings. According to the website, current top tens are Java, C ,C++, PHP, VB, C#, Python , Perl, Javascript , and Ruby. So if you master one of these languages, I guess it wouldn't be to hard to get a decent paying job.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html HEY WHY YALL TALKING ABOUT AVOIDING PHP.
I KNOW ITS THE BEST AND ALSO UPCOMING VERSION OF PHP ARE GONNA BE THE BOMB FOR
EXAMPLE THE LATEST VERSION OF PHP HAS SOME REALLY COOL FEATURES I CAN EVEN THINK OF....
AND IF YA'LL WONDERING WHY I SAID AVOID ASP .NET WELL ITS SHIT LANGUAGE OR LETS SAY COS I DONT KNOW ANYTHING BOUT IT
ALL THE SAME GOOD LUCK ON YOUR STUDY AND CHOOSE PHP PLEASE BUT ITS PREETY HARD AT FIRST..................... | wadja-host wrote: |
HEY WHY YALL TALKING ABOUT AVOIDING PHP.
I KNOW ITS THE BEST AND ALSO UPCOMING VERSION OF PHP ARE GONNA BE THE BOMB FOR
EXAMPLE THE LATEST VERSION OF PHP HAS SOME REALLY COOL FEATURES I CAN EVEN THINK OF....
AND IF YA'LL WONDERING WHY I SAID AVOID ASP .NET WELL ITS SHIT LANGUAGE OR LETS SAY COS I DONT KNOW ANYTHING BOUT IT
ALL THE SAME GOOD LUCK ON YOUR STUDY AND CHOOSE PHP PLEASE BUT ITS PREETY HARD AT FIRST..................... |
Who are you shouting at? Please mind the caps lock.
As for the post, I understand that some people detest PHP. Considering its language features, PHP is quite a mess (no standard library namespacing, no redefining functions, etc). But as a platform it is excellent, with solid communities and applications built around it.
Considering the language features alone, I would say to learn Python or Ruby (which both are actually quite similar).
And never say something is "shit" just because you don't know it. How about me saying you're shit because I don't know anything about you? (and put in some smiley around?) No offence here, just bits of wisdom for life | leontius wrote: |
| wadja-host wrote: | HEY WHY YALL TALKING ABOUT AVOIDING PHP.
I KNOW ITS THE BEST AND ALSO UPCOMING VERSION OF PHP ARE GONNA BE THE BOMB FOR
EXAMPLE THE LATEST VERSION OF PHP HAS SOME REALLY COOL FEATURES I CAN EVEN THINK OF....
AND IF YA'LL WONDERING WHY I SAID AVOID ASP .NET WELL ITS SHIT LANGUAGE OR LETS SAY COS I DONT KNOW ANYTHING BOUT IT
ALL THE SAME GOOD LUCK ON YOUR STUDY AND CHOOSE PHP PLEASE BUT ITS PREETY HARD AT FIRST..................... |
Who are you shouting at? Please mind the caps lock.
As for the post, I understand that some people detest PHP. Considering its language features, PHP is quite a mess (no standard library namespacing, no redefining functions, etc). But as a platform it is excellent, with solid communities and applications built around it.
Considering the language features alone, I would say to learn Python or Ruby (which both are actually quite similar).
And never say something is "shit" just because you don't know it. How about me saying you're shit because I don't know anything about you? (and put in some smiley around?) No offence here, just bits of wisdom for life |
Well uhhnnn i dont really think so i understand it but not as much and as for me i think u need more wisdom than me ok ?
shit > why cant i use that | chiragpatnaik wrote: |
I want to start coding again. I haven't in over 10 years. I have some familiarity with C, C++ and some Visual Basic, SQL Server. I don't remember anything aprt from general principles of programming.
The objective of learning such a language is to put up a hobby website based around content and community and hopefully if things pick then turn it into an enterprise service.
Please suggest what web oriented language I should be learning. On my shortlist are:
PHP
Perl
Python
Partly for reasons of availability of development tools and to avoid the expense of expensive OS & software choices and the general open source movement, I have chosen to stay away from proprietary platforms like .NET and J2EE.
If you think this thought process is misguided, please do mention the same.
Cheers
Chirag |
A lot of the posters I feel forgot that they aren't just recommending the best language but the language that fits YOU. I hated Perl when I tried to learn it. I'm willing to admit perhaps I wasn't ready to learn it yet. I haven't revisited it since.
As far as python goes, in contrast to perl, there is only one obvious way to do something. When you program in a language you aren't just using it's syntax, you're also buying into the language philosophy. I love python's design philosophy. Maybe you don't. This would make it a bad language for you.
PHP to some extent has funny naming conventions when it comes to caps and non-caps in class names. Maybe this has been fixed.
For your needs any of the above would work, none are terrible choices, but it comes to design philosophy and also what type of stack you want to be using. I assume you'll start with the basic LAM and fill the P your self. I'd recommend python over the other two, but all three make suitable languages. The fact that you know how to program, but perhaps don't know the syntax makes switching between the three very easy. You could try all three out and see where it leads you. I like that you can write python scripts (The same is also true of perl) that you can on your desktop to do quick little tasks for you. Also, all three are OS independent.
If you any other questions let me know!visual studio development with C# can be fun, there are some cool things to do with COM interoperability, likewise, I think, with C++
Can some please guide me if I should learn php or perl?
Or they are not at the same level but are different thing.
And what is Python? Is it like php or perl.
-- Thanks and Best Regards
