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programming Language to learn





chiragpatnaik
I want to start coding again. I haven't in over 10 years. I have some familiarity with C, C++ and some Visual Basic, SQL Server. I don't remember anything aprt from general principles of programming.

The objective of learning such a language is to put up a hobby website based around content and community and hopefully if things pick then turn it into an enterprise service.

Please suggest what web oriented language I should be learning. On my shortlist are:
PHP
Perl
Python

Partly for reasons of availability of development tools and to avoid the expense of expensive OS & software choices and the general open source movement, I have chosen to stay away from proprietary platforms like .NET and J2EE.

If you think this thought process is misguided, please do mention the same.

Cheers

Chirag
tocapa
I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it.
chiragpatnaik
tocapa wrote:
I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it.


I have heard this warning about PHP again and again... So obviously something is to said of this advice.

Do you have any recommendations for books or resources to start learning python
Cddhesh
Why avoid PHP ? World is moving towards web 2.0, if you know PHP , i feel you will be at good position.
Plus Latest PHP version(PHP 6) has desktop software creation support.So i feel PHP will be in demand soon.
Don't know about Python much, but Its better to know Perl , because its used like a general purpose requirement, it lies in category of Shell scripting.
Java and .Net will never loose its importance, So i don't see any hazards in staying away from them
silencet25
I always thought it was good to know software that does coding so there is no hard coding?
Faraz
tocapa wrote:
I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it.


I am very interested to know why you said to avoid PHP.
Chinmoy
learn perl, it has the largest library set and a better web integration than any other language...
rockacola
Whatever you learn... just be good at it. EOS
keane
Faraz wrote:
tocapa wrote:
I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it.


I am very interested to know why you said to avoid PHP.


I too would like to know why he should avoid PHP? What's wrong with it?
sheedatali
I would say PHP is the best language for WWW programming and I am saying that because a very large number of open source projects use it, a large number of sites use it (facebook for example) and I know very large corporate internet sites using it.

Python is an upcoming new language which has evolved very quickly, and that is probably the down side of it too, it is changing so much so often that developers and large organizations are reluctant to commit to python as new versions require major code changes. It has no doubt proven itself and has a large number of libraries built in. So it will be my second choice, however since it is object oriented it should not be very hard to learn if you know PHP inside out Smile.

Perl would be my third preference for web programming, it is not because it is a bad or weak programming language, far from it. It is very powerful and very flexible, but perhaps for WWW programming it is not the best one out there. It is suited to many other tasks that above two can't do very well.

In theory, the important bit is to know concepts/theories/problem solving techniques. You can pretty much get on top of any mainstream language pretty quick if you put your foot down.
r4inm4ker
Python is my choice of a language to master. It's an amazing intuitive and powerful language that serves multi-purpose tasks. It's also been adopted by a lot of third party softwares to provide users some easy to use API.
keshavmu
U can develop your own libraries with python and it's really flexible as programing language. I doubt a little about perl, maybe ajax would have a higher priority in present times as well as java?
Georgeboy
I should say, learn them all ! If you know one, you will get introduced more easy in another language.

For normal interaction and webbased applications I would advise PHP. But if you want to develop an application that needs more server sided power, I would advise Java. I saw you did not want to use J2EE, but it is powerful and there are free platforms for it...
gtoroap
I only can suggest to you, explore them all 3, or even more... (Ruby is a great option). I prefer PHP, but I cant tell you that you must prefer it or use it because I do. It's so inmoral.
jmlworld
PHP, my friend. Learn PHP.

PHP is easy to learn and it has the value to market yourself. You can learn PHP and some UI (user interface) oriented languages such as XHTML, CSS and JavaScript.

Perl is good too, but since PHP is moving faster than any other language, I would take the PHP first and would learn the alternatives later.
Magicman
I would definitely suggest that you learn PHP for web development. PHP is widely used and supported and I think it is fairly easy. I don't know why people are saying to avoid it. I really like Python but I only know how to use it for offline purposes. I have no experience with Perl so I can't comment on that.
traxion
with the question what languages is the question what do you want to build ??

a windows program > C# ( runs with microsoft framework, so cant run on a mac or lunix)
a multi os program > C++ ( runs on every OS with little changes to the UI )
a web-based program > php ( php is the way to build a real website )
jmlworld
traxion wrote:
with the question what languages is the question what do you want to build ??

a windows program > C# ( runs with microsoft framework, so cant run on a mac or lunix)
a multi os program > C++ ( runs on every OS with little changes to the UI )
a web-based program > php ( php is the way to build a real website )


Well said Traxion. PHP for web programming and C++ for platform independent desktop applications are enough, but someone can still learn Java, Perl, Python, VB and ASP for fun. Razz
jwellsy
Ruby on Rails is popular with several programmers I know.

Look into multi physics parrallel programming. Industries want that more than anything. Building a community around multi physics parrallel programming will attract some high dollar people and oportunities.
carlospro7
tocapa wrote:
I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it.


Yeah, I also don't know why you would say that. what is your experience? My experience is that PHP works really well, and it's great for small to mid-size projects, and also for large project if done well.

Anyway, if you want to be a good programmer, the number of languages you know isn't going to make you that. I think a good programmer is one that can solve a problem regardless of the language they need to implement it on.

As you may already know, most programming languages have major similarities. You don't need to relearn those every time you learn a new language. When working on a project, the language should be the last of your concerns.

I'm most familiar with C/C++ and PHP. I have never worked with Java before, but I have my part of a project due within a month. I took a few minutes to familiarize myself with it and the syntax is practically the same. One noticeable difference is that Java is a strictly OO language, and that a lot of the memory checking stuff is done automatically.

I can't think of any other languages to suggest other than PHP. I would suggest Java, but I think you said you want stay away from it. Even though it's not a language, I would also suggest learning Ajax programming techniques, you can do some pretty cool stuff with that.
shkumbin
Maybe stay away from web programing and stioc with C/C++ it is one of the best, reliable, and oldest coding languages so with that knowledge yopu can achieve a lot. I went to school in an american university with computer science major but I didnt learn programming and now I cant find a decenet job, learn C++ and be really good at it because programming is the highest paying job in the market right now
spring567
PHP is easy , so you can learn PHP first.
macky
keane wrote:
Faraz wrote:
tocapa wrote:
I say avoid PHP at all costs. Python is my favorite language overall, although admittedly I haven't learned Perl very well and don't use it.


I am very interested to know why you said to avoid PHP.


I too would like to know why he should avoid PHP? What's wrong with it?


the hell...there's no wrong about php, it just happen some people find it hard for them to understand its advantages. I'm a php programmer and i found out this php is better than others.. Very Happy
wanshi
Cddhesh wrote:
Why avoid PHP ? World is moving towards web 2.0, if you know PHP , i feel you will be at good position.
Plus Latest PHP version(PHP 6) has desktop software creation support.So i feel PHP will be in demand soon.
Don't know about Python much, but Its better to know Perl , because its used like a general purpose requirement, it lies in category of Shell scripting.
Java and .Net will never loose its importance, So i don't see any hazards in staying away from them


PHP£¬sounds good^^
biljap
PHP is easy to setup and learn, there are a lot of free resources on internet. There are also Java web applications, not that easy to setup first time but from my experiences, definitely more respected than PHP. Whatever you choose, after you learn the language you’ll have to learn other open source projects to help you implement everything you need in you application.
bsbteng
I should say if you know one, you will get introduced more easy in another language.
Asis
good post, i started learning with php, got confused a bit ^^
chatrack
It is easy to start with PHP
fullmetalalki
i'd say learn vb.net. My mother uses it as a programmer and just the applications of that language are quite amazing.

But if you're into gaming, c++ is the way to go, even small rpgs can be quite powerful if written in c++
chasbeen
I wonder why you stopped coding 10 years ago.

I have a hobby website which you can see below.

10 years ago I started getting into Java and took my first Sun certification 2 days before christmas in 2000 and I got my second Sun Certification in 2004.

Sadly I don't use Java anymore as there are far more affective coding alternatives out there.

I find it very easy to get what I need done very quickly on the server with PHP but if you really want a job then you might need to know Java and/or .net. Reason?

BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE BIG COMPANIES HAVE INVESTED IN IT.

Also, I have suggested PHP for your toy website. That is server side coding, be aware also that you need advanced Javascript skills also for "client side" programming.

Javascript has a certain stigma about it but you can use nearly all the OO skills to code that side of your website.
Tphilakone
Php is the most favorite programming language . So if you want to learning again i think php language
ptpmonitor
I find that learning PHP is easy and there are many websites from where we can learn it. I yet not tried python or java but have a plan to try those.
paskifire
can i use DW as my editor and my design buddy at the same time? im interested in learning php but im just a newbie.
Radar
Python and PHP are both good, relatively simple and yet powerful languages. Python is frequently said to be able to do many things beyond the normal expectations that one would set for a programming language.
[FuN]goku
Really depends on what you're looking to program. I'd say php is quite useful as far as web development goes, and I think that any programmer should know this at some point.

Right now I'm into C# programming myself, but I started out learning from PHP, then I went to Visual Basic .NET, then I switched to (and forced myself to learn) C# , and I've been doing C# for about a year and a half... might be 2 years, can't really remember when I started.

But , knowing those 3 languages, I can easily pick up on others. For example, most of my programming has been learned by code examples and such. What I try to do is port the example code which might be in ... say.. C++ .. and I'll try to re-write it in a C# syntax.

Anyways, Perl is also nice to learn since it cross-platform, and it can be similar to C/C++ and , in my opinion, php.

Python, I haven't looked into it much, mostly because the syntax of the language turns me off. I find that it's like visual basic, and I'm so used to ending each line with a semicolon. Don't get me wrong though, it's a powerful language, but it's just not for me.

Java , I've never really got into, but I don't really like it either. Just for the fact that it's slow. I like how it's cross platform and all, and also the fact that it's very similar to C#'s syntax, not to mention that it comes with some very cool built in library stuff. Again, not for me simply for the speed.

C/C++ are something you'll probably want to learn eventually. I myself am still trying to learn it. Perhaps this summer I'll "force" myself into learning that like I did with vb to C#.

Also, for those of you saying that you can't run .NET applications on linux or mac, Think again. You've obviously never heard of mono Wink , though I can't say I use, or even like it, it DOES exist. Razz

Anyways , some other languages that you might be interested in are Ruby and Lua. I think that if you know Python and Perl or Php, then you should be able to pick up on those 2 fairly easily.
r4inm4ker
this website ranks the most popular programming languages in terms of the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. The popular search engines Google, MSN, Yahoo!, Wikipedia and YouTube are used to calculate the ratings. According to the website, current top tens are Java, C ,C++, PHP, VB, C#, Python , Perl, Javascript , and Ruby. So if you master one of these languages, I guess it wouldn't be to hard to get a decent paying job.

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
wadja-host
HEY WHY YALL TALKING ABOUT AVOIDING PHP.

I KNOW ITS THE BEST AND ALSO UPCOMING VERSION OF PHP ARE GONNA BE THE BOMB FOR
EXAMPLE THE LATEST VERSION OF PHP HAS SOME REALLY COOL FEATURES I CAN EVEN THINK OF....

AND IF YA'LL WONDERING WHY I SAID AVOID ASP .NET WELL ITS SHIT LANGUAGE OR LETS SAY COS I DONT KNOW ANYTHING BOUT IT

Very Happy

ALL THE SAME GOOD LUCK ON YOUR STUDY AND CHOOSE PHP PLEASE BUT ITS PREETY HARD AT FIRST.....................
leontius
wadja-host wrote:
HEY WHY YALL TALKING ABOUT AVOIDING PHP.

I KNOW ITS THE BEST AND ALSO UPCOMING VERSION OF PHP ARE GONNA BE THE BOMB FOR
EXAMPLE THE LATEST VERSION OF PHP HAS SOME REALLY COOL FEATURES I CAN EVEN THINK OF....

AND IF YA'LL WONDERING WHY I SAID AVOID ASP .NET WELL ITS SHIT LANGUAGE OR LETS SAY COS I DONT KNOW ANYTHING BOUT IT

Very Happy

ALL THE SAME GOOD LUCK ON YOUR STUDY AND CHOOSE PHP PLEASE BUT ITS PREETY HARD AT FIRST.....................


Who are you shouting at? Please mind the caps lock.

As for the post, I understand that some people detest PHP. Considering its language features, PHP is quite a mess (no standard library namespacing, no redefining functions, etc). But as a platform it is excellent, with solid communities and applications built around it.

Considering the language features alone, I would say to learn Python or Ruby (which both are actually quite similar).

And never say something is "shit" just because you don't know it. How about me saying you're shit because I don't know anything about you? (and put in some smiley Very Happy around?) No offence here, just bits of wisdom for life Wink
wadja-host
leontius wrote:
wadja-host wrote:
HEY WHY YALL TALKING ABOUT AVOIDING PHP.

I KNOW ITS THE BEST AND ALSO UPCOMING VERSION OF PHP ARE GONNA BE THE BOMB FOR
EXAMPLE THE LATEST VERSION OF PHP HAS SOME REALLY COOL FEATURES I CAN EVEN THINK OF....

AND IF YA'LL WONDERING WHY I SAID AVOID ASP .NET WELL ITS SHIT LANGUAGE OR LETS SAY COS I DONT KNOW ANYTHING BOUT IT

Very Happy

ALL THE SAME GOOD LUCK ON YOUR STUDY AND CHOOSE PHP PLEASE BUT ITS PREETY HARD AT FIRST.....................


Who are you shouting at? Please mind the caps lock.

As for the post, I understand that some people detest PHP. Considering its language features, PHP is quite a mess (no standard library namespacing, no redefining functions, etc). But as a platform it is excellent, with solid communities and applications built around it.

Considering the language features alone, I would say to learn Python or Ruby (which both are actually quite similar).

And never say something is "shit" just because you don't know it. How about me saying you're shit because I don't know anything about you? (and put in some smiley Very Happy around?) No offence here, just bits of wisdom for life Wink


Well uhhnnn i dont really think so i understand it but not as much and as for me i think u need more wisdom than me ok ?

shit > why cant i use that
noah
chiragpatnaik wrote:
I want to start coding again. I haven't in over 10 years. I have some familiarity with C, C++ and some Visual Basic, SQL Server. I don't remember anything aprt from general principles of programming.

The objective of learning such a language is to put up a hobby website based around content and community and hopefully if things pick then turn it into an enterprise service.

Please suggest what web oriented language I should be learning. On my shortlist are:
PHP
Perl
Python

Partly for reasons of availability of development tools and to avoid the expense of expensive OS & software choices and the general open source movement, I have chosen to stay away from proprietary platforms like .NET and J2EE.

If you think this thought process is misguided, please do mention the same.

Cheers

Chirag


A lot of the posters I feel forgot that they aren't just recommending the best language but the language that fits YOU. I hated Perl when I tried to learn it. I'm willing to admit perhaps I wasn't ready to learn it yet. I haven't revisited it since.

As far as python goes, in contrast to perl, there is only one obvious way to do something. When you program in a language you aren't just using it's syntax, you're also buying into the language philosophy. I love python's design philosophy. Maybe you don't. This would make it a bad language for you.

PHP to some extent has funny naming conventions when it comes to caps and non-caps in class names. Maybe this has been fixed.

For your needs any of the above would work, none are terrible choices, but it comes to design philosophy and also what type of stack you want to be using. I assume you'll start with the basic LAM and fill the P your self. I'd recommend python over the other two, but all three make suitable languages. The fact that you know how to program, but perhaps don't know the syntax makes switching between the three very easy. You could try all three out and see where it leads you. I like that you can write python scripts (The same is also true of perl) that you can on your desktop to do quick little tasks for you. Also, all three are OS independent.

If you any other questions let me know!
toasterintheoven
visual studio development with C# can be fun, there are some cool things to do with COM interoperability, likewise, I think, with C++
mshafiq
Can some please guide me if I should learn php or perl?

Or they are not at the same level but are different thing.

And what is Python? Is it like php or perl.

-- Thanks and Best Regards
davividal
I didn't saw anyone giving the right advice: learn a new language *every* year.

You read correctly: every year, learn a new programming language.

You're not required to code a brand new OS in every language. A small, let's say, calculator is fine. You only need to know how to solve the same problem in a new way.

That's what makes a good programmer.

Also, I would recommend you to take a look at: http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/

It's not like you don't know how to program: is more something like: "look how to solve the problems by this way".

But answering to your question: I would recommend you to take a look at PHP, Perl, Ruby and D (http://www.digitalmars.com/d/).

Enjoy it. Smile
davividal
mshafiq wrote:
Can some please guide me if I should learn php or perl?

Or they are not at the same level but are different thing.

And what is Python? Is it like php or perl.

-- Thanks and Best Regards


PHP is commonly used for web-based application.

Perl is commonly used for system administration/text processing software: its power with regex is incredible.

Python... well, I don't like Python. MY OPINION is that Python is ugly, so I can't say anything useful here.

But I see Python being used in both web-based apps and desktop utilities apps.

But you can do web-based apps with Perl (http://www.catalystframework.org/) and desktop apps with PHP (http://gtk.php.net/).

Again: I would recommend you to learn all of them: PHP, Perl and Python.

But I would recommend the following order:
1. Perl;
2. PHP;
3. Python.


regards


--

EDIT: sorry about the duplicate reply
Radar
PHP is great for web developing, and seems to have a simple function for almost any slightly complex task.

Python is just... clean? Fun? Something along those lines. I learnt it a few years ago, but haven't used it for a while, and after fiddling with it the other day was very surprised to find just how nice a language it is.

And I like the advice to learn a language a year! Definitely something to strive for.
mshafiq
Thanks a lot for excellent suggestions.

I started working in php.
Of course not expert yet but it was not difficult for me as it is very near to C.

I just started learning perl. (just read some pages of perl yet.)
It looks easy too and is , apparently, easier than C as well.

RUBY ???
During a visit to a web site, i came across with Ruby on Rails
when I read little bit about it
it also for web applications too.

I would like to know if I need to learn about it if it is better than php and/or perl.
Apparently it is not popular.
I never made a single program yet.
However they claimed it is really a fun and is at least 10 times faster as compared to other web application tools.

Any comments? Does it has any scope in future?

Thanks in Advance!
davividal
Quote:
(...) I would like to know if I need to learn about it if it is better than php and/or perl.


Bullshit.

I love Ruby, but Ruby isn't better than PHP and/or Perl.
PHP isn't better than Ruby and/or Perl.
Perl isn't better than PHP and/or Ruby.

There isn't such thing like a "better language".

Quote:
Apparently it is not popular.
I never made a single program yet.
However they claimed it is really a fun and is at least 10 times faster as compared to other web application tools.

Any comments? Does it has any scope in future?

Thanks in Advance!


Well... I love Ruby. I love Rails.
I like the way it does the job. But there isn't such a thing like a "silver bullet".

Try it by yourself. Smile

I think that RoR can have a good future.
Schyllic
I recently taught myself perl and I really enjoy it. It is the most expressive language I have ever seen and tons of available code and excellent documentation. It is especially good with string manipulation. Here's a quick sampling of the syntax:

Print out the contents of a file:
Code:
print while (<>);


Replace Hello with Goodbye in a string:
Code:

$foo = "Hello World";
$foo =~ s/Hello/Goodbye/;


The Perl motto is "There's More Than One Way To Do It", so here I will demonstrate how to declare an intention to visit a list of places, in different ways:
Code:

print ("I want to visit $_.\n") for ("Italy", "Germany", "Japan");

Use an array:
Code:

my @places = qw(Italy Germany Japan);
for (@places) {
        print ("I want to visit $_.\n");
}

Use map and a sub
Code:

sub visit {
        print "I want to visit $_.\n";
}
my @countries = qw(Italy Greece Japan);
map { visit() } @countries;

Way 4: Use __DATA__
Code:

print "I want to visit $_" while (<DATA>);

__DATA__
Italy
France
Luxembourg
exitmenu
PHP and python
mshafiq
perl is really something different and expressive.
I am scared if I could ever be expert in it. [even a very good user ... it has so many options]

Anyway ...

I forgot to say
"Happy New Year"

Thanks
_AG_
I say learn Perl. It widely used for hosting of html and xhtml websites.
lrj945
I hated Perl when I tried to learn it. I'm willing to admit perhaps I wasn't ready to learn it yet. I haven't revisited it since. I assume you'll start with the basic LAM and fill the P your self. I'd recommend python over the other two, but all three make suitable languages. The fact that you know how to program, but perhaps don't know the syntax makes switching between the three very easy., PHP is quite a mess (no standard library namespacing, no redefining functions, etc). But as a platform it is excellent, with solid communities and applications built around it. According to the website, current top tens are Java, C ,C++, PHP, VB, C#, Python , Perl, Javascript , and Ruby.
inuyasha
traxion wrote:
with the question what languages is the question what do you want to build ??

a windows program > C# ( runs with microsoft framework, so cant run on a mac or lunix)
a multi os program > C++ ( runs on every OS with little changes to the UI )
a web-based program > php ( php is the way to build a real website )

I can't agree more, traxion~ Now I use C++ for desktop programming and PHP for web programming.
loremar
I'm still learning but C++ and PHP is definitely where I want to spend more time with. I'm using c++ for game programming.
Hexes
It depends on your need. If you want to create programs pretty fast then you should go with python. It is very simple language (with a bit strange rules at the beginning). Here you could find a nice tutorial: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
In case of python web tutorials are enough.
If you are going for serious programming in different OS then go with C++ or Java. Java is more appropriate for web apps and C++ is good for almost everything but it's slightly harder to learn.
Recently C++ were updated to new standard Cx11 which made it even easier to learn.
If you are looking for a programming language restricted to Windows OS family then go for C#.
It's easier than C++ and you could write your apps pretty quickly + Microsoft Visual Studio rocks!
mml_
If you go to Google trends and key in Perl, Python, PHP,

http://www.google.com/trends?q=PHP%2C+Perl%2C+Python+&ctab=0

#1 php, #2 python, #3 perl.
It appears than php is by far more popular, albeit with a downward trend. Python is on the accent regarding popularity (as reflected in searches, of course, which include monty pythons!)
chatrack
I still like php and java script. I prefer you to have .NET if you think for a professional job
remram44
I don't consider PHP (or Perl...) to be "programming languages". There are scripting languages, easy to use for small chunks of code that need to be set up fast, but are a real pain when it comes to large and demanding "web applications", both to write/maintain and for performance.

In my opinion, everyone should consider the "modern" solutions: Ruby (the Ruby on Rails framework is popular, but other "lighter" frameworks exist), Python (Django, Pylons, Pyramid) that have acceptable performance (i.e. fastcgi...)

Of course there may be issues when it comes to hosting your application, as PHP is still the more popular (because it's the most convenient to deploy...).
ankur209
This is one of the interesting question to be asked in this everyday emerging technology !
Well,I'll suggest you to go for PHP/Perl or You can learn the modern Ruby on Rails which is a good framework for developing app !
remram44
I haven't spent a lot of time on Rails, but I think it is quite difficult (because designed for large applications) for newcomers. I wouldn't want anyone to turn away from Ruby (and web frameworks) just because of that, so maybe a lighter framework is a good first contact.
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