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I always think what is on the end of universe?





wiureczka
What do you think think - what is on the end of universe? What will you see on the edge of the universe?

Is there only a darkness and nothing else....
Our universe is like a terrarium for fishes and we are this fishes - world in world...

So what can it be there...
Xanatos
wiureczka wrote:
What will you see on the edge of the universe?


You assume that the universe has an edge.

Quote:
what is on the end of universe?


You assume that the universe will have an end.
ocalhoun
Probably, it just loops around back to the other side. Just like early explorers looking for the edge of the Earth, you'd eventually end up right back where you started by going all the way around. That's the explanation that makes the most sense to me.
deanhills
Maybe there is no edge? At some point all of it disappears and becomes nothing
joostvane
deanhills wrote:
Maybe there is no edge? At some point all of it disappears and becomes nothing


Nothing. What do you mean with nothing? I personally believe that there must be something, always. I mean there can't be 'nothing' right. Like you would just die or seize to exist or something?

I think there is no edge and it loops back like the earth. For questions like this, I wish I was born in the future Razz With alot of more solutions.

Anyone wanan freeze himself in with me?
Helios
joostvane wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Maybe there is no edge? At some point all of it disappears and becomes nothing


Nothing. What do you mean with nothing? I personally believe that there must be something, always. I mean there can't be 'nothing' right. Like you would just die or seize to exist or something?


Yes.
Of course there's 'nothing'. We just can't comprehend it, naturally, but that doesn't mean it isn't the truth.

About the universe, I'll agree with the current scientific status, which says, as far as I know, that we don't know the answer yet for sure.
deanhills
Helios wrote:
About the universe, I'll agree with the current scientific status, which says, as far as I know, that we don't know the answer yet for sure.
A sober statement with wisdom in it, sign of a wise mind Smile I like the "yet" part too, sort of has hope written in it as well. I remember quite a number of years ago when I was watching "A dream is alive" in the Smithsonian Institute Theatre, and looking down at earth, and how very different everything looked (sort of gave me goose pimples - had to see the show about 4 times), I wonder what it will look like if we do make it to the edge of the world, and look at the Universe as we look at the earth from the outside in. Fascinating stuff.
_AVG_
I believe the known edge is the Cosmic Horizon beyond which light hasn't yet reached us or something like that. What's the current scientific status on that?

Possibly, I think that there could be some dark matter beyond the Cosmic Horizon.
Is it possible that something exists so far that its radiations haven't reached us by now? They would have to be more lightyears away than the years from the Big Bang till date. Is that possible?
Bikerman
The Cosmic Light horizon is that distance outside which light could not have reached us. It isn't, as commonly supposed, 13.7 billion light years - we have to remember that the universe has been and is expanding. There is a nice little animation below which demonstrates this
http://www.phys.ksu.edu/personal/gahs/phys191/horizon.html
DoctorBeaver
Nice animations. However, it should be mentioned that in the instances where light from 1 of the sources doesn't reach another point, those points must be moving apart at a velocity greater than c. Any less velocity and the light would eventually get there.

As for the original question about the edge of the universe, I don't believe it has an edge as such even though it is expanding. I think the universe (our spacetime) curves back on itself.

I read a theory once that there is possibly enough mass in the universe that it's escape velocity is greater than the speed of light. It is, in effect, a black hole but without a singularity. The term used was Brown Hole. I'm not sure how most cosmologists view that theory.
Bikerman
DoctorBeaver wrote:
Nice animations. However, it should be mentioned that in the instances where light from 1 of the sources doesn't reach another point, those points must be moving apart at a velocity greater than c. Any less velocity and the light would eventually get there.
Yes indeed - that is not made explicit in the animations and perhaps should be. The problem is one of terminology - to say 'moving apart' implies some local movement by the bodies, rather than expansion of the intervening space. A semantic point, I grant, but quite important...
DoctorBeaver
Yes, I agree. It's difficult to know exactly how to phrase it. Points in space are not moving apart but the distance between them is increasing Confused
deanhills
DoctorBeaver wrote:
Nice animations. However, it should be mentioned that in the instances where light from 1 of the sources doesn't reach another point, those points must be moving apart at a velocity greater than c. Any less velocity and the light would eventually get there.

As for the original question about the edge of the universe, I don't believe it has an edge as such even though it is expanding. I think the universe (our spacetime) curves back on itself.

I read a theory once that there is possibly enough mass in the universe that it's escape velocity is greater than the speed of light. It is, in effect, a black hole but without a singularity. The term used was Brown Hole. I'm not sure how most cosmologists view that theory.
Thanks, this explanation I can live with, although I cannot perceive it. "Brown Hole", wonder when we will get to a "Pink Hole" although I guess all the holes of the Universe always seem to be given "dark" colours. Again all explanation done according to how we perceive things on earth. Smile
sajeebr
The universe is not a thing it is a system. It is continuously expanding and there are millions-trillions-xillions and many llions galaxies in this universe. so what i believe is that there is another galaxy at the edge of this universe and pushes the edge millions of light year far.
DoctorBeaver
deanhills wrote:
I guess all the holes of the Universe always seem to be given "dark" colours. Again all explanation done according to how we perceive things on earth. Smile


What about white holes?

http://www.matter-antimatter.com/white_hole.htm
Terrasis-Cian
While it is thought by many scientist, as frist propesed by Einstein, that the universe is, in fact expanding, let us remember that the nearest star is roughly 4 lightyears away. Interesting this, for all we know, this stars life has come to and end. So when we look at the universe and red shift, we can only calculate results based on the data that is already very old. These stars we look at were, no doubt, moving away from us and expanding out, however, that was many years, ago... There is NO eveidence that a change in this pattern has not occured and we might all be in for "The Big Freeze".

I myself am a fan of the Exapnsion theory, however it is interesting to remember this information..
Terrasis-Cian
DoctorBeaver wrote:
deanhills wrote:
I guess all the holes of the Universe always seem to be given "dark" colours. Again all explanation done according to how we perceive things on earth. Smile


What about white holes?

http://www.matter-antimatter.com/white_hole.htm


Black holes are black because even light cannot escape their gravitational pull. Please elabourate on these white holes if i am ignorant Confused
allandu
they just throw everything they can out, mabye they are connected to white holes and work as a portal (black holes take stuff in white holes spit stuff out)

Now heres a quote from the website: "White holes are similar to black holes except white holes are ejecting matter verses black holes are absorbing matter. In 1916, Karl Schwarzschild derived the first model of a black hole using Einstein's theory of general theory of relativity. Nothing, not even a particle moving at the speed of light, can escape the gravitational pull of a black hole. The existence of white holes is implied by a negative square root solution to the Schwarzchild metric for space-time-matter continuum.. It is important to remember that black and white holes can be composed from matter or antimatter. "

Edit: bugz lol i posted twice and deleted it fast for no problems..
Xanatos
Actually a white hole would still attract matter through gravity. Gravity is a central force. There is no such thing as "antigravity".
keane
I'm thinking if the Universe actually has and edge or end. I'm thinking that the universe is never ending. This is just a personal thought, though. How did I come up with this idea?
You see, before, we thought that Earth is just a flat surface with an edge. Then we discovered that there are some other things that exist outside/beyond it, which is the solar system. Then we discovered that we're inside the Milky Way Galaxy, and some other galaxies and system exist around it. That's the universe. So I thought, that there are some other universes that exist outside our universe making it never ending. Smile

Think of an ant trapped inside a box. Then that box is located inside a house. The house is located in a city. The city is on Earth. Earth is in the solar system. The solar system (milky way) is a part of the universe and the list goes on. Smile
vong
I think the thing that i think the most about when looking at the stars is "what is that star like NOW" Light takes time to travel, so we are effectively looking into the past as we gaze into our sky.

Our portal to the future, the night sky Smile

now, as for the edge of the universe, you assume there is on...

Im sure there is a point in which matter as we know it reaches a point where it is so sparse, it is effectively not there. Taking my first point into account, if you go far enough away from the universe, perhaps you can actually watch the big bang Smile

Perhaps there the universe as we know it is just one of many as well!

food for thought Wink
Xanatos
vong wrote:
Our portal to the future, the night sky Smile


A portal to the past actually. It would be cool if we could see the future but unfortunately we cant.
vong
Xanatos wrote:
vong wrote:
Our portal to the future, the night sky Smile


A portal to the past actually. It would be cool if we could see the future but unfortunately we cant.


you are inideed right my friend *past*.

probably should have re-read that after i typed it Razz
sciencegto
There are no end, I think it will through other dimension. Laughing
nanunath
end of universe.....hmmmm...
there has to b dark matter for sure if not nething else!... Surprised
myviny
There has been no scientific known ending of the universe(Materially speaking, not religiously or imaginatively)...

There are several theories about the boundaries of the universe... One of them is that Universe has no boundaries looking at how it is expanding but it is not expanding at a constant rate but it is accelerating outwards soo the theory of the dark matter comes in... Dark matter theory is that our universe is surrounded by an unknown material whose gravity is pulling our universe towards it and that dark matter is supposed to be the end of universe...

Another theory is the four dimensional one which was explained by someone earlier... The theory is some what like the theory of the boundaires of earth in the middle ages.. Just like some people thought that if you kept going in the same dierction on earth you will eventually end up where u started, basically the four dimensional theory is the same(atleast in concept)... if you started moving in the same direction, you will eventually end up at the same point at which u started.....

Another theory is that universe is expanding like a bomb... When a bomb goes off the explosion first accelerate outwards and then collapse back to a single point, theory is that universe might only accelerate to an extent and after that it will stop expanding and start compacting itself and will exentually collapse to a single point in space(or close to that)....

Note: These are only theories, none of it has been explained or proved, pure theories, and I dont think we, as human race, are far from finding the answer to the question..... But may be in time we might find it...
Bikerman
Nono....you have got your theories in a twist here.
1) Expansion.
We observe that distant galaxies are moving away from us. No matter which direction we look in this is the case. In other words it LOOKS LIKE everything is flying away from us here on Earth. Now, you COULD think that this means the Earth is the centre of the Universe and that the Big Bang happened where we are. This would be astonishing, if true, and this is the picture that many people have in their heads. It is WRONG.
Imagine a piece of elastic with beads strung out every few centimetres. Now stretch the elastic. Every bead moves away from every other bead and the further apart the beads, the faster they move apart. It doesn't matter which bead you observe from - every other bead will appear to be moving away from you and YOU will appear to be the centre of the expansion.
Now take another analogy - a balloon. Imagine that the skin of the balloon represents space and draw little dots on the skin to represent galaxies in space. Blow the balloon up and the dots all move away from each other. THERE IS NO CENTRE - ie there is no point in space where the Big Bang happened - in a very real sense we are all still in the Big Bang.

Now, as regards Dark Matter and Dark Energy - recent observations lead to the conclusion that the expansion of the universe is speeding up. This has to be driven by something - you can imagine it as a sort of anti-gravity which forces mass apart, rather than attracting it together. THIS is what we mean by Dark Energy - it isn't 'outside' the universe, it is part of it.
We also notice, when we observe the rotation of galaxies, that there must be a lot more mass than we can detect (otherwise gravity would not be strong enough to hold the galaxies together and they would fly apart). This extra mass is what we call Dark Matter.

2) Curvature of spacetime.
This question can be summarised in a simple question - what shape is space? If I shine a laser beam into deep space, would it continue in a straight line? Better example - if I arrange three lasers in a triangle, thousands of light years apart, so that they shine onto each other to form a triange, then would the angles of the triangle add up to 180 degrees? There are three possibilities -
  • the angles add up to 180 degrees - that would mean that space is essentially flat, like a piece of paper.
  • The angles add up to LESS than 180 degrees. That would mean that space is saddle-shaped. (Imagine drawing a triangle on a riding saddle - the angles would sum to less that 180)
  • The angles add up to MORE than 180 degrees. That would mean that space is curved back on itself - perhaps as a sphere. (Imagine drawing a triangle on a football - the angles sum to greater than 180).

Now, this is the simple version - in reality we have to consider the curvature of space AND time (spacetime) but then it gets very complicated indeed.....
Solon_Poledourus
Imagine my surprise when I did a Frihost search for "brown holes and pink holes" and was sent here...
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:


2) Curvature of spacetime.
This question can be summarised in a simple question - what shape is space? If I shine a laser beam into deep space, would it continue in a straight line? Better example - if I arrange three lasers in a triangle, thousands of light years apart, so that they shine onto each other to form a triange, then would the angles of the triangle add up to 180 degrees? There are three possibilities -
  • the angles add up to 180 degrees - that would mean that space is essentially flat, like a piece of paper.
  • The angles add up to LESS than 180 degrees. That would mean that space is saddle-shaped. (Imagine drawing a triangle on a riding saddle - the angles would sum to less that 180)
  • The angles add up to MORE than 180 degrees. That would mean that space is curved back on itself - perhaps as a sphere. (Imagine drawing a triangle on a football - the angles sum to greater than 180).

Now, this is the simple version - in reality we have to consider the curvature of space AND time (spacetime) but then it gets very complicated indeed.....

If we could measure the angles accurately enough, why couldn't this be done on a much smaller (and feasible) scale?
Bikerman
ocalhoun wrote:
If we could measure the angles accurately enough, why couldn't this be done on a much smaller (and feasible) scale?
Therein lies the problem - the accuracy. Obviously the degree of accuracy needed is determined by the radius of curvature. With a universe multi-billion light years in 'extent' (for want of a better word) then measuring the curvature at the scale of the solar system would need precision on a scale not currently possible (at least that appears to me to be the case - I'll ask more knowledgeable colleagues later). The truth is that we aren't even close to being able to establish a comparatively small baseline experiment - we would need precision laser sources spread over the solar system and sufficiently far from planets (because obviously the whole experiment would be subject to extra curvature of space produced by large masses such as the planets). Trying to cancel the mass-induced curvature produced by the planets would, I think, be an impossible job (imagine trying to cancel exactly the gravitational field of the earth - you would need second by second measures of gravitational field strength at the receptor to an impossible accuracy)...

That is, however, only my musings - I'm sure there are cosmologists out there with a plan and it is MY plan to go and ask some of them on my home forums - I'll report back any interesting outcomes...
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
Trying to cancel the mass-induced curvature produced by the planets would, I think, be an impossible job (imagine trying to cancel exactly the gravitational field of the earth - you would need second by second measures of gravitational field strength at the receptor to an impossible accuracy)...

Well, two possibilities, I suppose...
1: Work out the calculations, and figure out what the gravitational curvature would be, and cancel it out. Though trying to compensate for smaller objects would be futile, the sun and larger planets could perhaps be compensated for within the means of modern math and science... I wonder if you'd have to compensate for the mass of the galaxy as well?

2: Launch probes now, and find out the answer to this question in a few hundred years. We've already demonstrated that we're capable of launching a probe out of the solar system... Just do that one with a probe designed to split into three parts after leaving the solar system. The further it gets, the more accurate it will be. (On second thought, make it split into four or more pieces, giving you at least 2 triangles to be averaged out for error correction, and it would give you a backup probe in case one was hit by a random chunk of space-rock or something.) The longer they were allowed to go, the less they would be affected by the solar system's gravity, and the larger the distance would be between them.

Of course, combining those two would be best.
Bikerman
Well, as I said, I shall seek further enlightenment from those who know.
A quick point though - just to emphasise scales.
To get a probe to the Ort Cloud (thought to be at the edge of our solar system) means travelling about a light year. At the speeds of current technology (let's consider the current speed of the Voyager probe as an example - about 40,000 mph) it would take a probe just under 17 thousand years to get that far...
pscompanies
Solon_Poledourus wrote:
Imagine my surprise when I did a Frihost search for "brown holes and pink holes" and was sent here...


LOL
classicevony
There is nothing at the edge of the universe. What is more importand is what is under it?!
welshsteve
I personally think that the human brain is incapable of grasping the whole concept. If you do reach the end, what's on the other side? And when that ends, what's on the other side of that. You could go on and on and on
OraShadow
There's no way to really tell whats beyond even our Galaxy, much less whats beyond the entire Universe....and if any Scientist attempted to send a rover or something(i forgot what they're called <_<) they would lose connection long before it reached the end of the Milky Way. But it is kind of confusing. The Universe can't just end, would it be just plain Darkness? Nothing? No Gravity? Stars? Planets? I don't thnik we'll ever know, but like many scientest say, The Universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting their turn to be discoverd.
snowboardalliance
I find it interesting that we do not know what is "beyond the universe" and we don't know what is smaller than say sub-atomic particles (quarks/leptons and all the crazy things that I don't remember). It makes you wonder if there is a limit going in either direction...
Like maybe if we could "see" it a quark is like a universe, and it's just a neverending cycle of things getting bigger and smaller. Like a picture of a picture of a picture etc.
ocalhoun
snowboardalliance wrote:

Like maybe if we could "see" it a quark is like a universe, and it's just a neverending cycle of things getting bigger and smaller. Like a picture of a picture of a picture etc.

The fractal universe is a fun theory, but there's not a shred of evidence for it.
sum12nv
there is no edge, well at least not yet. the universe is forever expanding according to scientists who study the universe. we dont know when or if the universe will stop. it is possible that one day it would stop and maybe like in futurama we can look to the other side and is a parallel universe. this is from the multi verse theory. it says that there are lots of other universes that co-exists with us and everyone looks the same and acts the same but there is always something different for instance one universe could be more advance.
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