I have met quite a number of people who seem not to be able to tell the two apart anymore.
Tho I am also guilty of having been obsessed with virtual life, I must ask where is the line drawn in games like Second Life?
When virtual take priority over real life how does a person who has become obsessed get out?
Is it that the hardships and issues of real life force people to delve into the virtual?
Based on human needs, the only physical ones are sleep and food. Ofcourse, going to the toilet, work out some,
etc can be sorted to needs aswell, but I was thinking of Maslow, and his stairs of needs. The rest are in a way more
abstract, and nothing says you can't reach them in a virtual life. But, that's just kind of an absurd reflection,
though interesting.
Anyhow, our society is also based on a certain kind of economy and social/moral rules. Those also has to be
reached. But after that, even if it seem strange for some, it's up to each and every one of us to spend what time
we like in virtual lives. Sure, there can be problems if they get mixed up, but that would also mean that the economic,
social or moral codes aren't fullfilled. See where I'm pointing?
I say, one doesn't have to get out. One just have to get the prioroties sorted and be sure of what satisfiy them.
May seem cynical, but then again, a big part of the worlds population spend all of their lives in poverty, war
and other realities witch I would never be able to grasp.
Not actually being able to distinguish between real life and virtual worlds sounds like a problem caused by mental health issues but drifting away into computer games and computer-related activities is not too uncommon and I've been subject to it myself back in the days. After a while of constantly being on a computer the real world does seem less clear and a bit odd, I can relate to this.
I think computer games have got to a stage (and have been there for quite a while) where they are at such a quality and complexity that they can become addictive. Not literally addictive but mentally you may feel the need to escape something in real life via playing the game, I'm pretty sure that's what I did for a number of years - school being the shithole that it was I played halo all my waking hours accompanied by cups of tea and snacks. It was pretty good I must admit but in realism I think I was probably wasting my life away.
You may want to check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Woolley
(Yes the article is a little dodgy in terms of sources but you can get the idea of it)
Everquest and various RPGs and MMORPGs (I would say Diablo II personally) have quite an addictive quality to them. I never started EQ due to the fact that I was at a point where I knew I would get highly addicted to it and waste away slowly.
This issue highlighted here USUALLY isn't a serious one unless mixed in with mental problems but I've seen it affect peoples lives in pretty negative ways, luckily I grew out of it. I've gone off on one now sorry but yeah that's my 2 cents. If people enjoy a virtual life more than their real one, why not let them give priority to the virtual life?
You could say they are wasting their life away to no purpose, but don't the vast majority of people do that anyway? At least they can find the most enjoyment possible for them while doing so.
Idoru...I do understand what you said...
| Quote: |
| One just have to get the prioroties sorted and be sure of what satisfiy them. |
this is what I am getting at, those who cannot sort priorities. What happens then? Do we as loved ones, friends or onlookers just leave them?
Josso...it may be a mental health issue. As I asked above....what do we do?
ocalhoun...should people be allowed to give priority to the virtual when their kids stay hungry and their house is filthy? When they reach to work late and can't perform cause they been up all night 'gaming'?
My main reason for asking this is I have quite a number of friends who seem not able to tell the difference, they are caught in the virtual as tho they were in the matrix. If your friends have children, then their entertainment and definitely their addictions should not come before their responsibility to their dependents. If their preference is to live a life of filth and solitude so that they can stay up gaming, then they should not have children. If they already do, then their commitment to their children automatically overrides that. It's tough, but that's sacrifice. Gaming every once in a while shouldn't be a problem, and it shouldn't interfere with their ability to hold down a job and take care of their kids. If it does, then they have to stop.
I have a kid. I've given up loads of my own free time and stuff I like to do just so I can be a half way decent parent for her. I still do things for myself from time to time, but as a parent I've had to cut back on that. But, it was my choice and I knew it would be like that when I got myself into this. That's called being an adult.
if they don't have those kinds of responsibilities, then I guess I'm with Ocalhoun. That's their choice. As long as I don't have to pay for them to live on welfare or something, well, whatever.
| apple wrote: |
Idoru...I do understand what you said...
| Quote: | | One just have to get the prioroties sorted and be sure of what satisfiy them. |
this is what I am getting at, those who cannot sort priorities. What happens then? Do we as loved ones, friends or onlookers just leave them? |
Not to confused, then 
)
Well, here we have the same problem as with all addicts. To break the addiction we have to step in and sort the
priorities for them. Sometimes it even takes force in the beginning. It's important though, that when enough
clarity is reached for the addicted to see what he/she is choosing, to not deprive them of the choise. Even a
bad one is one we all have right to take, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. | apple wrote: |
ocalhoun...should people be allowed to give priority to the virtual when their kids stay hungry and their house is filthy? When they reach to work late and can't perform cause they been up all night 'gaming'? |
Yes they should be allowed. And then they should be held accountable for the consequences.
If they can't care for their children, the children can be taken away. If their house is filthy, so what? When they fail at work they should be fired.
The choice may be very detrimental to their real lives, but they should be allowed to ruin their real lives that way if they choose to. | ocalhoun wrote: |
| apple wrote: |
ocalhoun...should people be allowed to give priority to the virtual when their kids stay hungry and their house is filthy? When they reach to work late and can't perform cause they been up all night 'gaming'? |
Yes they should be allowed. And then they should be held accountable for the consequences.
If they can't care for their children, the children can be taken away. If their house is filthy, so what? When they fail at work they should be fired.
The choice may be very detrimental to their real lives, but they should be allowed to ruin their real lives that way if they choose to. |
This is where it gets complicated, because if someone wants to throw their lives away gaming or drinking or gambling or whatever, no one can really stop them. No adult is going to hold them down, monitor their every move, and kick them back into shape. So you say, "they should be allowed to ruin their own lives if that's what they want", I guess technically that's true, but only because there's no other option. But their kids should be removed and given to people who will take care of them. There's just no freaking excuse for that kind of behavior, addiction or not. If you're sick, you should get help. If you don't, your kids should be taken away. And what's sad is the number of adults out there who are sick, who have kids and who will not face consequences. So their kids are going to grow up to be weaker people for it. | TurtleShell wrote: |
| ocalhoun wrote: | | apple wrote: |
ocalhoun...should people be allowed to give priority to the virtual when their kids stay hungry and their house is filthy? When they reach to work late and can't perform cause they been up all night 'gaming'? |
Yes they should be allowed. And then they should be held accountable for the consequences.
If they can't care for their children, the children can be taken away. If their house is filthy, so what? When they fail at work they should be fired.
The choice may be very detrimental to their real lives, but they should be allowed to ruin their real lives that way if they choose to. |
This is where it gets complicated, because if someone wants to throw their lives away gaming or drinking or gambling or whatever, no one can really stop them. No adult is going to hold them down, monitor their every move, and kick them back into shape. So you say, "they should be allowed to ruin their own lives if that's what they want", I guess technically that's true, but only because there's no other option. But their kids should be removed and given to people who will take care of them. There's just no freaking excuse for that kind of behavior, addiction or not. If you're sick, you should get help. If you don't, your kids should be taken away. And what's sad is the number of adults out there who are sick, who have kids and who will not face consequences. So their kids are going to grow up to be weaker people for it. |
TurtleShell...this is what I mean. I am all for making your own choices and living with your consequences etc etc...thing is my friends don't think anything is wrong. In their eyes they doing nothing wrong. Their kids are great, beautiful smart kids. Yet they are subject to such living conditions....It's really hard to get out unless you have razor sharp focus and lots of motivation. I end up browsing the web endlessly with zero productivity, it feels terrible. I've been doing it for a good two years now, ever since 24mbps ADSL2+ lol! I'm trying to get over it by limiting email and computer time to morning and evening only after I've done all my other work. Hard plan to stick to for sure!
| Jaan wrote: |
| It's really hard to get out unless you have razor sharp focus and lots of motivation. I end up browsing the web endlessly with zero productivity, it feels terrible. I've been doing it for a good two years now, ever since 24mbps ADSL2+ lol! I'm trying to get over it by limiting email and computer time to morning and evening only after I've done all my other work. Hard plan to stick to for sure! |
confession is the 1st step.... 
at least you know you're addicted. my friends seem to be sooooooo into it that they sometimes don't know the kids are calling or the phones ringing. | ocalhoun wrote: |
Yes they should be allowed. And then they should be held accountable for the consequences.
If they can't care for their children, the children can be taken away. If their house is filthy, so what? When they fail at work they should be fired.
The choice may be very detrimental to their real lives, but they should be allowed to ruin their real lives that way if they choose to. |
But while they ruin their real lives, they are also ruining the lives of their family. Getting fired causes problems for the whole family. If the person is single, fine. But if they are married with a family and children, that's a different story. The children shouldn't be put through the trauma of being taken away because some idiot can't ration themselves from computer games. When their addiction starts ruining the lives of others, that is where the line is drawn. You may see it differently with your flippant attitude, when when someone's actions start affecting others, it is no longer just their business anymore. | eday2010 wrote: |
| ocalhoun wrote: | Yes they should be allowed. And then they should be held accountable for the consequences.
If they can't care for their children, the children can be taken away. If their house is filthy, so what? When they fail at work they should be fired.
The choice may be very detrimental to their real lives, but they should be allowed to ruin their real lives that way if they choose to. |
But while they ruin their real lives, they are also ruining the lives of their family. Getting fired causes problems for the whole family. If the person is single, fine. But if they are married with a family and children, that's a different story. The children shouldn't be put through the trauma of being taken away because some idiot can't ration themselves from computer games. When their addiction starts ruining the lives of others, that is where the line is drawn. You may see it differently with your flippant attitude, when when someone's actions start affecting others, it is no longer just their business anymore. |
this is the exact reason I started this topic, I am hoping someone posts something that I can use to reach them. | eday2010 wrote: |
| when when someone's actions start affecting others, it is no longer just their business anymore. |
True, but you can't and shouldn't force people to be responsible. If that person cares so little about his or her family, then he or she shouldn't have started a family to begin with, and soon enough he or she won't have a family anymore.
You can punish someone for actions that harm others, but I think that in most cases you should not punish someone for inaction that harms others. | ocalhoun wrote: |
| eday2010 wrote: | | when when someone's actions start affecting others, it is no longer just their business anymore. |
True, but you can't and shouldn't force people to be responsible. If that person cares so little about his or her family, then he or she shouldn't have started a family to begin with, and soon enough he or she won't have a family anymore.
You can punish someone for actions that harm others, but I think that in most cases you should not punish someone for inaction that harms others. |
how can I just stand around and watch it go to hell? I mean if they are without internet they are depressed beyond reason. I know them very very well and I know they are unhappy with each other (the parents) yet they stay together so the kids can have an 'image' of family....but at what costs? | ocalhoun wrote: |
| eday2010 wrote: | | when when someone's actions start affecting others, it is no longer just their business anymore. |
True, but you can't and shouldn't force people to be responsible. If that person cares so little about his or her family, then he or she shouldn't have started a family to begin with, and soon enough he or she won't have a family anymore.
You can punish someone for actions that harm others, but I think that in most cases you should not punish someone for inaction that harms others. |
how can I just stand around and watch it go to hell? I mean if they are without internet they are depressed beyond reason. I know them very very well and I know they are unhappy with each other (the parents) yet they stay together so the kids can have an 'image' of family....but at what costs? | apple wrote: |
| ocalhoun wrote: | | eday2010 wrote: | | when when someone's actions start affecting others, it is no longer just their business anymore. |
True, but you can't and shouldn't force people to be responsible. If that person cares so little about his or her family, then he or she shouldn't have started a family to begin with, and soon enough he or she won't have a family anymore.
You can punish someone for actions that harm others, but I think that in most cases you should not punish someone for inaction that harms others. |
how can I just stand around and watch it go to hell? I mean if they are without internet they are depressed beyond reason. I know them very very well and I know they are unhappy with each other (the parents) yet they stay together so the kids can have an 'image' of family....but at what costs? |
Making yourself miserable for the benefit of others is a noble thing to do, but I don't think anyone should be forced to do so.
Would you give up what you enjoy the most in order to make your family happier? Some people would. Personally, if I had to give up what I enjoyed the most, I'd kill myself promptly. | ocalhoun wrote: |
| Would you give up what you enjoy the most in order to make your family happier? Some people would. Personally, if I had to give up what I enjoyed the most, I'd kill myself promptly. |
I think people that tend to make sacrifices like that, build grievances in themselves, and sooner or later something gives. They start to drink more or become alcoholics, or they just start to get unhappy and when you ask them what gives, go into denial, and they make those people who they make the sacrifices for guilty and resentful, making for an all over unhappy family.I do hope this is useful although it may seem absurd, I just have a different perspective on this topic.
I can not come to define "virtual" life as separate from "real" life. Why should it be defined that way? Real people are involved and they have interaction with other real people so I don’t think there should be a separation between the two when it comes to “telling the two apart.” This definition however is only concerning itself with the relationship part of online life.
People in real life do have a closer physical relationship however online relationships can and do exist as well and can be stronger ones. If a person wants or needs to be away from computers then relationships might have to change or develop to accommodate that.
Obsession with something and addiction is a very real thing. Those vises exist everywhere. So do priorities. My point, and this of course is debatable, is I believe less focus on this problem should be given to the computer part and more to the actual reasons.
People develop obsessions, avoidance of responsibilities, addictions because there is a problem. The problem needs to be looked at. The online existence is a side affect not the problem. The problem causes the amount of computer time spent and not the other way around. Virtual life is simply filling a need.
Yes, life spent on a computer can be an issue in many peoples life’s but an issue can also exist as well with an obsession to reading addictive books or coffee or it could for be hard drugs and corruptness.
I suppose we all have to find good reasons in doing something and if that something we want to do is enjoyable, becomes our passion and has great rewards attached to it then all the better for everyone concerned.
Perhaps your friend could use a cleaner house, enjoy their life more with their children, have people over more frequently to share it with, get out more or just have a goal in mind that fulfills some need they have? Not easy to achieve though is it? Maybe, they help with that.
| Quote: |
When virtual take priority over real life how does a person who has become obsessed get out?
Is it that the hardships and issues of real life force people to delve into the virtual? |
In real life, when there are more and more people on the Earth with limited resources, miniaturization replaces the real life: books, then virtual reality. If in real reality ( ) possibilities and options are very limited and are frequently not a matter of choice, the virtual reality (in wide meaning, books, opium dens and prolonged sleeping included) is much more interesting, rich, offers a lot of possibilities. Actually, many interesting successful lives during one not so good life time.
As for hardships that force - quite opposite. People quit virtual reality after hardship hits: no computer, no internet, no books (and so on) - no virtual reality. During hardship one can't even sleep the life to the end - no conditions for that.
Boredom and lack of better in real life - that I could believe in.
How to quit? Self control and understanding of consequences - or hardship, spontaneous or induced.Thank you guys for all the responses, I am very saddened by this and it seems as tho my friends are not willing to reason about this. So I guess I am to leave them alone 
Yea good question, but dont know nothing sorry...bout that.
| peyote wrote: |
| Yea good question, but dont know nothing sorry...bout that. |
no problem, at least you took the time to read and respond.
again to all those who took the time out to respond, I have decided to give my friend a talking to soon. I hope it goes well.I CAN easily tell the two apart. But, most of the time virtualily is more fun than reality 
| Zombie wrote: |
| I CAN easily tell the two apart. But, most of the time virtualily is more fun than reality |
lol...you are very correct there. Virtual is more fun than reality.
--------
well I spoke to my friend and she was not happy with me suggesting that she take time to clean up and stuff. I'll admit that my virtual life definitely has priority over my non virtual one. But that's not a bad thing. Since the years I've had easy access to internet I've learned so much, created so much and made so many friends. Much of the stuff I've learned I've been able to put into practice at work or school as well. So prioritizing your virtual life isn't necessarily worse.
| HamsterMan wrote: |
| I'll admit that my virtual life definitely has priority over my non virtual one. But that's not a bad thing. Since the years I've had easy access to internet I've learned so much, created so much and made so many friends. Much of the stuff I've learned I've been able to put into practice at work or school as well. So prioritizing your virtual life isn't necessarily worse. |
Virtual is not a bad thing, I think that when anything comes in the way of taking care of ones responsibilities it should be reviewed tho. When you are late for work cause you have been up all night gaming....when your kids don't get meals on time and when they do its not enough....when your won physical and mental health is in decline...those are some of the times I think a person should stop and check themselves.For me, nothing can replace what's real. Virtula world is fun, but it's not reality!
| goutha wrote: |
| For me, nothing can replace what's real. Virtula world is fun, but it's not reality! |
well said.What's the difference if you go out to hang with friends or stay in to hang with friends? Especially friends that live halfway around the world?
| PatTheGreat42 wrote: |
| What's the difference if you go out to hang with friends or stay in to hang with friends? Especially friends that live halfway around the world? |
Well said. Also there's the benefit that very shy people have a lot easier to make friends on the internet.It's far more convenient than the real world, that's for sure. 
I think this is a normal process while the manking goes ahead... This things happens just because the tecnology is a real thing, not a virtual ones...So i guesse everything was expected... When they invented the car for an simple and maybe poor example, a lot of people shoulded ask for themselves, and waht about the horses... The virtual is on the msn chats, in the web buys, in everything around us, then i think we cant divide anymore the things...
the bad things happens when the people stop to live in harminy with other real people, I mean, just live the tecnology, like play games all days, like to get only msn´s friends and things like that...
So, we just have to get the middle point and everything will works normaly.
I thank the internet for the many things it did to me. Like you guys said, virtual is more fun than reality, if not always, most of the time. I admit I find it hard to live without it and I usually feel less myself when I'm less in it. Though I must say that even if both worlds are two different things, I know that in many ways, virtual is reality too. so what if it's just computers? computers are a part of what's real, and so is that world. I met many friends through it that I value as much as my offline life friends. and now they're on my reality. virtual doesn't necessarily have to be taken as a whole different world from reality, but a part of it. i guess it's a question of being drowned into what's physical and what's not, what's the priority and what's the leisure. what people should really learn is how to balance.
Keep in mind guys that I never said 'virtual' was a bad thing. My only issue is when those I care about cannot balance their real life/everyday responsibilities and those dependent on them suffer.
Keep in mind guys that I never said 'virtual' was a bad thing. My only issue is when those I care about cannot balance their real life/everyday responsibilities and those dependent on them suffer.
| Josso wrote: |
| Not actually being able to distinguish between real life and virtual worlds sounds like a problem caused by mental health issues |
Yes; that is also what I thought when I read that. Playing computer games and even getting very involved in them is something a lot of people do without losing their sense of reality I think. IMO.Yeah. The thing with virtual world is it's limited as compared to real world.
Sure we have emoticons and other stuff to enhance conversations but nothing beats the spontaneity (did I spell that right) of having a face-to-face conversation with someone.
And also, sometimes when we're in the virtual world too much, we get carried away with what we do and sometimes forget the line between virtual and real life.
Virtual is fun, that's all. If you really have trouble separating the two then you should see a psychiatrist.
I guess finding we are absorbed with something can happen to us with just about anything. People often spend too much time washing the car and not looking after what is important, so not sure if the problem only ties to virtual computer things. I mean neglect is not a new thing.
Just saying here, people might be that way anyway regardless of what they do. As for seeking help, there is nothing wrong with that.
Maybe people that spend most of their life in sports, out at night clubs or even at the mall should think about other aspects of their life, too. If one day they wake up to find that where they are seems like home, and can't seem to say which activity is more part of their life because they spend so much time at it, I would say that feeling is normal because it is true?
Hope this makes perfect sense. It does to me.
Yes I believe people use virtual worlds as an escape, but sometimes to the point they get drawn in and prefer the virtual one to the real. I've been there, until I met my wife, then reality kicked back in 
| goutha wrote: |
| For me, nothing can replace what's real. Virtula world is fun, but it's not reality! |
Exactly!Im addicted to virtual games and the internet, but i can tell them apart. =)
There is a difference between addiction and filtering reality from fiction.
People get addicted to the virtual world because they can lead a life that's impossible or illegal in the real world I myself play MMORPG and it makes me feel so damn powerful 
There has been a few strange occasions whereby if I'm holding something flat and straight like a ruler I start swinging it around like a sword 
.
Good thing I can still tell the difference between reality and fiction 
...i think. What makes virtual game world more attractive is it's speed.
In real life you cant be that free to move, climb , jumb safely.
So , one would feel more safety and protection in a virtual world.
So it is the ease of action and feeling of safety that virtulal world
that all are attracted to
first, second life is not game. big companies like NASA have workshops and conferences inside second life. its just second world. a virtual world.
| hofodomo01 wrote: |
 |
Thats 'cause he's using Windows. | cleverclassic wrote: |
| Virtual is fun, that's all. If you really have trouble separating the two then you should see a psychiatrist. |
A while ago, I was online and had a 'visitor' ask me for my opinion on his 'situation in the virtual world and real world' and in the end he sincerely thanked me for my opinion. He was a psychiatrist in real life. Just wanted to mention that.
We can always see differences and similarities in everything and I think vr/r is of no exception. In the picture above (the person in the window) surely demonstrates this.
Separating or making a distinction between a balance and an imbalance on or off line may be possible to determine, however if you separate reality from an equation vr/r - you only end up with virtual, otherwise virtual reality is reality?
