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Zend Framework

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snowboardalliance
So I started randomly browsing the information on youtube about the API, stumbled into Google Data (which I found interesting), and then came upon Zend Framework and Dojo Toolkit. I haven't even tried them yet but it looks interesting. I was wondering, does anyone use this kind of software in web development? And how good is it? Like does it just make things easier for a "noob"? Or would it help an experienced developer write better applications?

I'm considering trying to use it to write something this summer. I might make my own blog just as a learning exercise, and maybe this would be useful. Also I have never used AJAX and I would like to start learning some of the new technologies of the web (besides xhtml/css and php/mySQL).

Feel free to post any thoughts on this subject.
rvec
most of the time a framework doesn't make things easier. An api on the other hand does, even though they might be a bit confusing at first.

A framework needs a bit more understanding of object oriented programming.
snowboardalliance
rvec wrote:
most of the time a framework doesn't make things easier. An api on the other hand does, even though they might be a bit confusing at first.

A framework needs a bit more understanding of object oriented programming.


Well I do have a good understanding of object oriented programming and I prefer to use it. Is a framework still more difficult?
rvec
in that case I'd recommend trying one. Knowing how to work with a framework would really help you.
snowboardalliance
rvec wrote:
in that case I'd recommend trying one. Knowing how to work with a framework would really help you.


Good to know, I'll give that a go (when I have the time...). Thanks!
rvec
http://codeigniter.com/ is a good one to start with. It has a nice user guide which really helps when starting with frameworks. I started with it and still like it.
snowboardalliance
rvec wrote:
http://codeigniter.com/ is a good one to start with. It has a nice user guide which really helps when starting with frameworks. I started with it and still like it.


I think I like the OO aspect of Zend the best under php 5 which has much better object support than php 4. I'm just guessing that codeigniter doesn't take advantage of php 5 since php 4 is the requirement
rvec
http://codeigniter.com/forums/viewthread/87758/#442193
they do use php5, they just don't want to delete the php4 scripts.
Hogwarts
Symfony, on the other hand, uses the latest version of PHP. However, it uses a CLI-based program to perform certain tasks, which is impractical for shared hosts Sad
snowboardalliance
Hogwarts wrote:
Symfony, on the other hand, uses the latest version of PHP. However, it uses a CLI-based program to perform certain tasks, which is impractical for shared hosts Sad


I noticed this too, and I'd still consider learning it after Zend just to see what I like. The issue with CLI is fine, you develop locally, and then you can export all the files to your host. And really, you shouldn't put unfinished applications on a live server. I just don't know if I want to have most of the code written for me, I'd like to use the strengths of the framework, but actually program most of the site myself (and it seems like Symfony can just create almost ready-made sites from the command line)
Hogwarts
Symfony can hardly make ready-made programs from the CLI Razz

Most of what's done there is just your model layer, and your forms layer. After that, you customise that all through object extension and then build your site. At my work we've been working on adding a vast amount of content to what the generator can do (in our own Sf branch) automatically and that's generally for sites that have similar tasks performed that would be impractical to do otherwise (and also to make things vastly easier). Everything, however, is over-ridable.
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