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How would you save your country's economy?





deanhills
If you were to receive a trillion dollars to save your country's economy, how would you go about it? Would you do what Obama of the US and Brown of the UK are doing, by bailing out BIG Banks and Business? Or do you have your own plan? Would love to hear what your plan would be and how you would implement it.
Xanatos
I would tell everyone to stop whining and go spend money. I don't even need to use the trillion dollars.
Hogwarts
If I received a trillion dollars to save my countries economy, I'd burn it to make the inflation rate go down.

If I had the possibility to create an enactment, I would put a tax upon hoarding money to stimulate the economy.
deanhills
Hogwarts wrote:
If I received a trillion dollars to save my countries economy, I'd burn it to make the inflation rate go down.

If I had the possibility to create an enactment, I would put a tax upon hoarding money to stimulate the economy.


This is a good one. Have not thought about it before. Good thinking.
flatliner
In my own country (Ireland) i would invest in top-noch education system (which are government have made cut backs in) that encourages entrepreneurship and create jobs by spending billions on building a green energy infrastructure and give more grants to start up indigenous companies which would help reduce dependence on TNC's like Dell who have up and left us over night nearly, although this plan may not be a very quick fix, but it will fix and secure the economy in the long run. Setup a state owned company to provide high speed broadband and all essential business services all over the county (privatization of Eircom was a bad Idea) improve rail, road etc and with free green energy lower energy costs to reduce business costs and thus help lower inflation, although at the moment inflation in Ireland is falling for the first time in ages now and even interest rates are been put down.
Dark_Jedi06
I would spend the money bailing out the major banks, then the auto companies and then...well at that point the trillion dollars would be gone, so I would knock on China's door and ask for a check for another trillion and promise to pay them back. Then I would put that money towards bailing out the banks again, but only if they swear they'll lend it this time! And of course, I'll make sure to allocate some of it for CEO bonuses, because we want to reward those who drove their companies into the ground...

Oh, and let's not forget the pet projects of all the politicians who vote for it.

...someone already beat me to it. Sad

[/sarcasm]
flatliner
Dark_Jedi06 wrote:
I would spend the money bailing out the major banks, then the auto companies and then...well at that point the trillion dollars would be gone, so I would knock on China's door and ask for a check for another trillion and promise to pay them back. Then I would put that money towards bailing out the banks again, but only if they swear they'll lend it this time! And of course, I'll make sure to allocate some of it for CEO bonuses, because we want to reward those who drove their companies into the ground...

Oh, and let's not forget the pet projects of all the politicians who vote for it.

...someone already beat me to it. Sad

[/sarcasm]


Nice Cool, its so true tho unfortunately
deanhills
Dark_Jedi06 wrote:
I would spend the money bailing out the major banks, then the auto companies and then...well at that point the trillion dollars would be gone, so I would knock on China's door and ask for a check for another trillion and promise to pay them back. Then I would put that money towards bailing out the banks again, but only if they swear they'll lend it this time! And of course, I'll make sure to allocate some of it for CEO bonuses, because we want to reward those who drove their companies into the ground...

Oh, and let's not forget the pet projects of all the politicians who vote for it.

...someone already beat me to it. Sad

[/sarcasm]


Laughing This one was entertaining, and possibly even a good prediction of what is still to come ....
fx-trading-education
In my opinion, the crisis or the good health of an economy are anyway based on an illusion. Basically it is just psychological problem, as if you would look on hard facts, US for instance is bankrupted for many years and if it would be a private company it would have been shut down long time ago. I think that anyway the whole economical system is totally dead and continues to live just because people are kept in this illusion and anyway there is no way to change without huge damages, then it is good for everybody to keep the illusion going on. So the current crisis is just a little wake up during the long sleep (it seems that some banks manage as badly their finances as countries...) but it won't last so long (1-2 years I guess).
So I don't think that 1 trillion can directly help, it can help in restoring confidence just because of the psychological effect, but you could do the same thing with a placebo effect: for instance cook the book of some large companies and announce good results, then say that the crisis is over, and then people will start to reinvest and it is gone for one more round!
deanhills
fx-trading-education wrote:
In my opinion, the crisis or the good health of an economy are anyway based on an illusion. Basically it is just psychological problem, as if you would look on hard facts, US for instance is bankrupted for many years and if it would be a private company it would have been shut down long time ago. I think that anyway the whole economical system is totally dead and continues to live just because people are kept in this illusion and anyway there is no way to change without huge damages, then it is good for everybody to keep the illusion going on. So the current crisis is just a little wake up during the long sleep (it seems that some banks manage as badly their finances as countries...) but it won't last so long (1-2 years I guess).
So I don't think that 1 trillion can directly help, it can help in restoring confidence just because of the psychological effect, but you could do the same thing with a placebo effect: for instance cook the book of some large companies and announce good results, then say that the crisis is over, and then people will start to reinvest and it is gone for one more round!


Very good points and you are so right with everything you said. We have zero transparent information about the company books. We have not had open and direct information for a very long time, and the world has basically been bankrupt for a long time. It is just pretending it is not, and that it has a crisis that is not, and on the basis of fear of the crisis to get more money to carry on with the facade. Good points! On the basis of that the trillion does not really exist either, except through the BIG failed banks who the Government says it will be bailing out, but one is not sure who is bailing out whom. One big pretense.
Libby
I don't want to save it. ****** capitalism.
lagoon
Bravo! It has hardly worked so far!
Xanatos
Libby wrote:
I don't want to save it. ****** capitalism.


What would you have instead of capitalism?
Triple_7
I'd start by giving every tax payer that makes less then $100,000 a year $250,000 tax free. Its not enough to completely pay off debts which would still mean the need for bank loans, etc. Plus you will have your people that blow every bit of it on useless crap. But it would give everyone that needs it a good start, finally buy that new home for their family, get a newer vehicle, or take that nice vacation they have longed for over the years. People would actually be able to pay their bills and get a fresh start instead of struggling just to keep food on the table right now.

The rest would go into different things. One would be in the forms of grants for people that want to start a small business...and unlike the current offers these would actually be for normal people and normal things instead of all this high tech/scientific research type grants that seem to be the only ones available now. Someone wants to open up a little mom and pop shop then they should be able to.

Secondly would be to rework the current disaster they call health care in this country. I'm sick and tired of not being able to get simple care that I need because I have no insurance. I've been turned away from every dentist, doctor, and eye doctor in this area unless I have cash up front. Which is impossible when they want $100+ just to see me. Time for a national health care system that is similar to many other countries. Free to the public for normal every day procedures...you may have to wait a little longer to get that new hip but at least you will get it. Still have places for private practices that can charge whatever they please. If you want to spent $10,000 for a non emergency/non crippling procedure instead of waiting a couple months longer then that's your debt. Will not support elective procedures with this deal. If you want a new nose or boobs just because you don't like the ones you have then you can spend your own dime to get them. Only exceptions to plastic surgery would be in cases where injury has occurred.

And lastly, help out the current small businesses that need it...not the huge multi-million dollar ones the current government cares about. Small farmers that need a boost to keep going, mom and pop businesses that were doing well before the economy fell apart but are now facing shut down.

We the little people of this country are the ones suffering the most Crying or Very sad ...pardon me if I don't shed a tear when I hear about some big banker on Wallstreet who's loosing millions...or that some CEO who's making millions a year has to take a pay cut. Mad
deanhills
Triple_7 wrote:
when I hear about some big banker on Wallstreet who's loosing millions...or that some CEO who's making millions a year has to take a pay cut. Mad


Right. I saw an interview with someone on the News last night being interviewed complaining that those who make more pay all the taxes, while those who do not earn much pay no taxes at all. Perhaps it's time for a revolution again, as for me bailing out big banks and big business is "in effect" paid by the man in the street, in terms of jobs lost, salaries cut, houses lost, etc .... and for what? As those directly benefitting from the bailouts of banks and big business are the wealthy, not the poor.
killianvillian
Quote:
What would you have instead of capitalism?


Thanks for asking. In response to the question at hand, I would hire an economist to talk to me first.

Our discussion would probably take us down a road where theory, my ignorance, his ignorance, and world history battle out a solution to the known visible and invisible problems.

We would conclude that capitalism in its modern form are not sustainable for longer than 50-100 years without a cyclical cleansing of itself. Whilst communism isnt sustainable at all even with cyclical occurences, a new form of economic system would need devising.

It would have to be experimental, just like every new evolutionary social, governmental, and economic models have been. But it wouldnt need to be completely new. Old lessons have already been learned, and we can use them to standardise new principles.

1 - Everyone would be given the right to live a life based on the basic foods. Regulations would provide jobs for regulators, whereby they would aim to ensure food quality at least better than Taco Bell. Thats not saying too much, but still adequate to appease the majority i think.

2 - Everyone would be REQUIRED to see a doctor once a year. Failure to do so would be penalized. But penalties are not monetary for this type of situation. Penalties would be to stay at the hospital for longer amounts of time. Your time spent there would be submitting yourself to psycholigcal testing (academic or personal).

3 - Everyone would have a job, taking the same time out of your life. If your job takes more than 8 hours a day to complete, you would be given a government supplied assistant to aid in the timely completion of the task.

If you hate your job, you ask for a replacement job with possibilities in mind. BUT, you can also try to find a person to change your job with. Jobs are exchangeable.

4 - Private business owners are only semi-private. They are allowed to profit to a determined salary cap. The salary cap would be limited to no more than 10x times your lowest paid employee. You can always flaunt your wealth with this much headway. So no one will need to cry about it.

If this at first seems to limit your payscale to 10 tiers, it doesnt. Its still infinite. Just like in capitalism.

5 - Private businesses will really be government regulated for profit sharing among the populus. And for this reason, the government puts a stake in your success and will provide startup support for a limited amount of years, based on the business endeavour. If your business fails after two years, MEANING, if the national accountants assigned to you are showing your numbers in the red, you have no recourse but to eject and restart with a new proposal or find a job from another employer.

The trillion dollars. ALAS,

This would be given to everyone between 21 and retirement for use on starting their business. You can opt out of starting a business, and taking 1/3 of the equally alotted amount. This money doesnt go into your own bank account unless you opt out of the business starting opportunity. And you are able to save this money for 5 years before you are defaulted to the 1/3 amount.

Where do the previously described social programs get their funding? Taxes of course. That comes later. And where does the desire to compete come from if we are all given the same base and a limited cap? ...
killianvillian
Social programs are costly, and need extensive funding of course. But social awareness is free, and only needs education to see why its important to invest into a good basic condition of life for everyone in the country you live in.

Taxes are always painful, but when you dont feel they are warranted, they are infuriating. But a system where everyone starts (or at least the majority) their career on tax money, maybe there would be more sympathy to warrant the taking of it even for the needs of others. THis is how i can see all the trillion going to the previously mention investment fund.



The widespread competition would be based on what it stems best from. Pride. Surely monetary gain would reward competitive edges. But a salary cap would aim to reduce the wild dreaming of one day being richer than god.

Then, while aiming for comfortable hedonism in wealth, people will hopefully realize that pride can come from doing a job well also. I think this part needs a lot of work and adjustments. But the main aim here is to stifle unrealistic dreaming of wealth power statuses.

ETC etc.
deanhills
killianvillian wrote:
3 - Everyone would have a job, taking the same time out of your life. If your job takes more than 8 hours a day to complete, you would be given a government supplied assistant to aid in the timely completion of the task.


Interesting theory, wow, very creative, and I agree, capitalism needs to be rewritten. Just curious though, where would the jobs be coming from? And who would be supervising the jobs?
Xanatos
deanhills wrote:


Interesting theory, wow, very creative, and I agree, capitalism needs to be rewritten. Just curious though, where would the jobs be coming from? And who would be supervising the jobs?


Which is the problem with most economic and social systems. They sound great in theory but in practice are often impossible. Communism is a great example of this.
Parkour_Jarrod
Well, i'd look at the unemployment levels and people under $50,000 a year and split it so they all have even moneys and for teh unemployed give them a job and pay for their wages with the trillion dollars making unemployment 0% and getting peoples to put more money in the economy and because of 0% unemployment all the money that goes into the 'dole' will go into improving the economy
killianvillian
Quote:
where would the jobs be coming from? And who would be supervising the jobs?


Its a good point. These would government jobs. The downside of this is that there would be a lot of government oversight on everything. So. You may have a good chance of being related to a person overseeing you, or being good friends with them

But the stimulus aspect of this, is that small business would get a boost. We cant all get rich inventing the next OS, or the newest Ipod. But there are a lot of stable business opportunities if the economic climate were to allow mom and pops to thrive.

Thats the main thing I would love to see things progress towards. Not because I think we need to move backwards to a time before corporations ran every successful business venture. Thats idealistic.

But I think like owning a home, if you own your own business, you gain personal responsibility. And the supervisors would be needed less than they are now.
killianvillian
Sorry, im kind of new to forum posting, how do you give a name to the person you quote? Its seems more respectful, i just dont know how to.
deanhills
killianvillian wrote:
Sorry, im kind of new to forum posting, how do you give a name to the person you quote? Its seems more respectful, i just dont know how to.

You click on the "quote" button on the right-hand top part of the message you are commenting on. If it is a longer thread it is better to qoute the message with the name of the person in it so that people can know which posting you are commenting on.
bigt
deanhills wrote:
If you were to receive a trillion dollars to save your country's economy, how would you go about it? Would you do what Obama of the US and Brown of the UK are doing, by bailing out BIG Banks and Business? Or do you have your own plan? Would love to hear what your plan would be and how you would implement it.


I would help out the private sector and try to get rid of government programs. The private sector built this country and it will save it. The government just needs to keep its hands mostly out of things. The gov't should also think about cutting programs that are losing money and not helping many people.

With that money, I would help the private sector by stopping federal taxes from being taken out of checks for two or three months. It's the people's money, so we should let them take more of it home and not hold it for a while and give it back to them later! Also, I would give business owners a tax break on each new hire in 2009 if they kept that person for a year. And, I would lower corporate taxes b/c they are some of the highest in the world; no wonder businesses are leaving.

Most of these are not my ideas. I try to turn the tv of some and read and listen to the radio about current events and not watch the latest person to be voted off whatever.
bigt
killianvillian wrote:
Social programs are costly, and need extensive funding of course. But social awareness is free, and only needs education to see why its important to invest into a good basic condition of life for everyone in the country you live in.

Taxes are always painful, but when you dont feel they are warranted, they are infuriating. But a system where everyone starts (or at least the majority) their career on tax money, maybe there would be more sympathy to warrant the taking of it even for the needs of others. THis is how i can see all the trillion going to the previously mention investment fund.



The widespread competition would be based on what it stems best from. Pride. Surely monetary gain would reward competitive edges. But a salary cap would aim to reduce the wild dreaming of one day being richer than god.

Then, while aiming for comfortable hedonism in wealth, people will hopefully realize that pride can come from doing a job well also. I think this part needs a lot of work and adjustments. But the main aim here is to stifle unrealistic dreaming of wealth power statuses.

ETC etc.


WHAT?!? If you let people keep more of their money and don't MAKE them give it in taxes, etc they will or should be more inclined to give it to their favorite charity or cause. The gov't should not be in the business of making everyone feel good.

Where's the pride in busting your butt to only have the gov't take the extra b/c somebody poorer doesn't like it? Productivity will go down b/c the hard workers will see the slackers getting by with much less work for the same amount of pay.

And, have you heard of "The Millionaire Next Door" ? What makes this country great is the fact that one can start out dirt poor, work hard, and become a first generation millionaire or at least have enough money to not have to work every day of their adult life. Or that someone can grow up not having much money and one day become President (like B.H.O.).

You are allowed to have your opinion, but don't experiment with my country. Go see how your ideas are working across the pod and live there if you still think they're not flawed.

Sry....*end soapbox*
yuxan
i believe rebuild the confidence is the most important. so i will extend investment,especial the industry
concern about many men's job, to stimulate the consumption.
mrcool
i would invest it to a new business so that others would get their job...
TomGrey
I would certainly NOT bail out any Big Banks, whose mostly unsupervised managers were paid Big Bucks to make profits (which they did) withOUT taking on more risk (in which they failed).

I actually agree that there should be a place for a non-capitalist system of wealth creation. I would define such a system, and fund it by offering start up capital for new companies following its pay incentives. (Free Market is great, capitalism is good -- it's best as creating wealth, new capital. It's maybe not as good as helping workers. Most other systems help workers too much, they are NOT sustainable. Capitalism, based on profits, IS sustainable. )

I'd call my new system "jobism", where managers of companies get paid based on how many employees they have.
I don't think the 10 * lowest wage as a salary cap is enough for 10 000 person companies, tho it might be for 100 person companies.

My incentive would be based on always more for the managers with more employees, but I don't know what ratios would produce the most job growth.

I'd start with a low base wage W of 120% of poverty income, or more, offered to all new employees.
(As this system gets more successful, that base W will slowly increase. With experience & company success, workers will slowly get more; but many good workers might well decide to leave for higher wages from capitalists. That would be OK, too.)

The Top Manager would start out with a salary that was the square root of the number of employees * W, e.g. with 4 employees, it would be 2 * W; with 9 employees 3*W, with 100 employees it would be 10* W (same as the above 10* lowest cap).

At some point the pay scales would need adjustments as the Top manager(s) need to manager other managers. All managers would have bonuses based on number of employees managed.

While the company would be run like a profit making company, every month and every quarter and every year, any "expected profit" would be used in a combination of bonus pay and new hiring. This would minimize the income profit tax, but also tend to push hiring new workers, constantly.

Some $500 bil. would be used to create internet based banks, and accounting / bookkeeping services, IT services, janitorial services, catering services -- any and all types of current companies. Based on business plans of anybody, plus a $50 000 prize for each business plan accepted & funded.

The other $500 bil. would be used to bid for currently foreclosed for sale houses, to be immediately offered for rent.
SBCBC33
Buy things. Smile
deanhills
SBCBC33 wrote:
Buy things. Smile
Don't you have to earn money first - which means you have to either have income from being employed, start your own business - or beg, borrow or steal? So how do the jobs get created, where does the money come from to start businesses?
Jamestf347
I would certainly NOT bail out any Big Banks, whose mostly unsupervised managers were paid Big Bucks to make profits (which they did) withOUT taking on more risk (in which they failed).

I actually agree that there should be a place for a non-capitalist system of wealth creation. I would define such a system, and fund it by offering start up capital for new companies following its pay incentives. (Free Market is great, capitalism is good -- it's best as creating wealth, new capital. It's maybe not as good as helping workers. Most other systems help workers too much, they are NOT sustainable. Capitalism, based on profits, IS sustainable. )

I'd call my new system "jobism", where managers of companies get paid based on how many employees they have.
I don't think the 10 * lowest wage as a salary cap is enough for 10 000 person companies, tho it might be for 100 person companies.

My incentive would be based on always more for the managers with more employees, but I don't know what ratios would produce the most job growth.

I'd start with a low base wage W of 120% of poverty income, or more, offered to all new employees.
(As this system gets more successful, that base W will slowly increase. With experience & company success, workers will slowly get more; but many good workers might well decide to leave for higher wages from capitalists. That would be OK, too.)

The Top Manager would start out with a salary that was the square root of the number of employees * W, e.g. with 4 employees, it would be 2 * W; with 9 employees 3*W, with 100 employees it would be 10* W (same as the above 10* lowest cap).

At some point the pay scales would need adjustments as the Top manager(s) need to manager other managers. All managers would have bonuses based on number of employees managed.

While the company would be run like a profit making company, every month and every quarter and every year, any "expected profit" would be used in a combination of bonus pay and new hiring. This would minimize the income profit tax, but also tend to push hiring new workers, constantly.

Some $500 bil. would be used to create internet based banks, and accounting / bookkeeping services, IT services, janitorial services, catering services -- any and all types of current companies. Based on business plans of anybody, plus a $50 000 prize for each business plan accepted & funded.

The other $500 bil. would be used to bid for currently foreclosed for sale houses, to be immediately offered for rent.



You sir would have a failing country
gandalfthegrey
1. End Usury/Interest

Compound interest mathematically impossible and will eventually result in a collapse. It is basic math!

We cannot have an economy build on usury/interest.

To encourage the loaning of money we should have a flat fee, instead of compound interest.
gandalfthegrey
2. Government Debts/Deficits

Get rid of them! Stop screwing taxpayers for the benefit of business survival.
Ancient societies, like the Ancient Greeks and Sumerians would forgive all debt after a period of time (usually the debt of a monarchy) because they realized (through experience) that it is not sustainable for economic prosperity to have growing debts/deficits, along with compound interest.

Let these businesses and industries fail. Capitalism is resilient!
gandalfthegrey
3. Speculation
Ban speculation on currency and real estate. Inflation is a hidden tax on money, as the value of uninvested money goes down, while certain things like investments and real estate go up.
Life savings (in whichever currency your investments/bank account is in) can disappear in an instant (such as what happened in Argentina, Iceland and Zimbabwe this past decade).
Real estate speculation (because the rich have no where else to put their money to 'grow' it, have placed the cost of the basic necessity of life, a place to live, out of the range of many people in urban areas).
blacksoft
save the money with insurance.

<Edit: links removed>
gmourao
Speculation is complicated. Because if you speculate wrong, you can loose a lot.
I think the best way, the one that i do, is to put the major part of the cash in the bank, and a minor part to speculate. In my case, im opening my own business Razz. best way to speculate, I know exactly what is going on with your money.
TEReview
To fix Canada's Economy I'd have the government put there stimulus package directly into newly listing Corporations on the tsx and small companies in the precious metal and oil and gas industries to create job that will last based on commoditie necessities.
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