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Victoria, Australia Bushfires - Worst Ever





jylan
Over the past few days the state of Victoria in Australia has been totally devasted by multiple bushfires, with over 25 people confirmed dead. Everyone is saying that these are the worst fires Victoria has ever had. Whole towns have been completely burnt down and I think over 100 houses have been lost.

You can see the Australia Broadcasting Corporation's website for more details: http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/bushfires/
deanhills
jylan wrote:
Over the past few days the state of Victoria in Australia has been totally devasted by multiple bushfires, with over 25 people confirmed dead. Everyone is saying that these are the worst fires Victoria has ever had. Whole towns have been completely burnt down and I think over 100 houses have been lost.

You can see the Australia Broadcasting Corporation's website for more details: http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/bushfires/


Scary! Perhaps the Russians should rather have exported those huge snow blizzards to Australia, than to the UK! Apart from the fact that the Aussies would have dealt better with the snow (being innovative in every respect), it could have helped with putting the fires out. Really sorry to hear about the devastation and lives lost. The damage must be pretty awful Sad
jylan
Yes I'm sure everyone would prefer to snow to fire at the moment deanhills.

The damage is horrible, haven't seen it first hand though because I'm up in Queensland a few thousand kilometres north Wink. A bit further north of some towns are completely under water from flooding, so it's really quite strange just now in Australia.
LimpFish
Dude that's crazy. Someone needs to come up with something that prevents these huge fires. I'm not sure what, but there has to be something?
deanhills
LimpFish wrote:
Dude that's crazy. Someone needs to come up with something that prevents these huge fires. I'm not sure what, but there has to be something?


Wouldn't it have been wonderful if scientists could have worked out a way where rains that create flooding in one area of the country could be diverted to those areas which are dry such as the ones in Victoria where all the fires are? Jylan mentioned that their are floods in an area not too far from where the fires are. Surely in this day and age there has to be technology available with which artificial flooding could be designed?
Nick2008
I have been seeing this a lot in the news lately. Definitely a bad situation for many people in Australia. If scientists could divert weather, it would be the best thing since chocolate and sliced bread. But until then........ I guess we only have one choice, and that is to battle what mother nature throws at us.
jylan
Ah sorry my earlier reply wasn't worded too well, the flooded towns are thousands of kilometres north up in Queensland.

But yes, probably the best way to fight fires would be to find a way to make it rain over the fires, which I think some scientists have done with limited success. BTW the death toll now from the fires is a confirmed 108, and more people are expected to die or be found dead. Its so sad...
jmlworld
jylan wrote:
Ah sorry my earlier reply wasn't worded too well, the flooded towns are thousands of kilometres north up in Queensland.

But yes, probably the best way to fight fires would be to find a way to make it rain over the fires, which I think some scientists have done with limited success. BTW the death toll now from the fires is a confirmed 108, and more people are expected to die or be found dead. Its so sad...


Yeah. Scientists should expand that limited experiment soon. Many countries face bushfire every year. In the news, I hear bushfire striking Australia in every two years or so. May be the government didn't take more care about this issue. There should be a dedicated agency or ministry for this scary thing.

I was watching Al Jazeera TV reporting the death toll rises to 130, this morning, and the TV described it as the worst blazes ever to strike the country.
jylan
Hey jmlworld,

Yeah bushfires are pretty regular in Australia but as you heard these are the worst ever to hit the country. They're saying that the number of people dead could reach 200, that would just be horrible.

I think there will be a lot of government reviews and extra measures put in place after these fires, nobody will want it to happen again.
deanhills
jylan wrote:
Hey jmlworld,

Yeah bushfires are pretty regular in Australia but as you heard these are the worst ever to hit the country. They're saying that the number of people dead could reach 200, that would just be horrible.

I think there will be a lot of government reviews and extra measures put in place after these fires, nobody will want it to happen again.


I listened to the interviews with people who had narrowly escaped, and then began to understand that the "worst" actually meant the most "treacherous" of fires that completely spread randomly out of the blue. Probably needs lots of special analyses and investigations afterwards as it looks like one of the most unpredictable and complicated fires people had to face. Totally destructed and devastated everything in its path. To make it a little more complicated, apparently there were arsonists involved as well, as when they extinguished one fire, some people rekindled the fire. Very scary indeed.
jmlworld
jylan wrote:
Hey jmlworld,

Yeah bushfires are pretty regular in Australia but as you heard these are the worst ever to hit the country.


It's been said that there are some criminals involved in this crisis, and I was listening several hours ago the Australian prime minister describing the suspects as "mass murderers".

I wonder why someone will deliberately set more fire on the town to make the situation even worse.
jylan
Yeah Jamal it is disgusting to think that someone would do that - I think sometimes firebugs or arsonists have some kind of mental problem though where they love to see the disaster they cause.
mattyj
oops double post...see below
ocalhoun
jmlworld wrote:
jylan wrote:
Hey jmlworld,

Yeah bushfires are pretty regular in Australia but as you heard these are the worst ever to hit the country.


It's been said that there are some criminals involved in this crisis, and I was listening several hours ago the Australian prime minister describing the suspects as "mass murderers".

I wonder why someone will deliberately set more fire on the town to make the situation even worse.

Pyromania perhaps?
Also hatred for the world? "The world screwed me, so I'm going to screw the world" type of thing.
mattyj
Horrible events...

I live in Buchan in far east gippsland, but am originally from Bendigo (about 6hrs away), and still own a house over there..I had my mum over visiting and on saturday night my sister rings me and says, There is fires in Bendigo and we are pretty sure your house has burned down...and Pop has been evacuated from his house (which has been in our family for 135 years) and we are pretty sure its going to go aswell

So first thing sunday morning (4am) i get mum into the car and head off home (have to go the long way as the main hwy is blocked off coz of other fires)...so have to go over the top of Mt Hotham...

Get over to Bendigo, and our house was safe, but every house in the next street over was destroyed...Pop's house was saved my a last minute wind change...and the fire came within about 20m from our house!

Bendigo - the area where our house is - looks like a war zone, with houses down everywhere, 2 people dead and 100 homes destroyed just in my town

And bendigo escaped lightly compared to Kinglake, Churchill, etc

I hope they catch the bastards that started the fires and SET THEM ON FIRE!
jylan
Wow mattyj, thanks for such an amazing eyewitness account. Glad that your family's houses survived, but it wouldn't be very nice to live in a dead town by yourself Sad .

Forgot to mention that anyone can listen live around the world to the local radio station for updates on the fire, the url for the station is http://www.abc.net.au/melbourne/. Just click the launch streaming player link in the bottom left corner.

EDIT: You can also donate money online to the Red Cross Victorian Fire Appeal 2009: http://www.redcross.org.au/vic/services_emergencyservices_victorian-bushfires-appeal-2009.htm
jmlworld
ocalhoun wrote:

Pyromania perhaps?
Also hatred for the world? "The world screwed me, so I'm going to screw the world" type of thing.


They had to set fire on themselves instead of screwing a whole country...

jylan wrote:
I think sometimes firebugs or arsonists have some kind of mental problem though where they love to see the disaster they cause.


Hey Jylan, the government should burn those idiots in life, its the only reward they deserve. They are irresponsible greedy murderers. They are not even remorseful of what they did and they are feeling good after all the blazes that claimed the lives of over 120 victims.

@mattyj, so glad that you and your family are safe, but its some kind of hellish feeling to see burnt bodies and destroyed houses all around. Its horrible place to return.
jylan
@jmlworld, I wasn't defending the arsonists by any means, no punishment is too bad for them.

The current number of dead is currently at 173 dead, and that number is expected to go past 200 or even more:

Also for all you bookworms out there Sitepoint.com is having an amazing deal where you can buy 5 of their excellent quality books for the price of 1, for only $29.95. Every single cent of the sales goes to the bushfire victims. The Sitepoint offices are actually in Melbourne, Victoria and they wanted to do something for the fire victims. The link to the offer is at http://5for1.aws.sitepoint.com/. That offer ends on February 13th.
ocalhoun
jmlworld wrote:

Hey Jylan, the government should burn those idiots in life, its the only reward they deserve. They are irresponsible greedy murderers. They are not even remorseful of what they did and they are feeling good after all the blazes that claimed the lives of over 120 victims.

Don't you realize that by advocating that, you make yourself no better than they are?
handfleisch
That's really horrible, I'll have to check my Aussie friends to make sure they are okay.

Of course, leave it to a Murdoch-owned Sydney newspaper to make the situation even worse by cynically using the tragedy to whip up fear of Islamic terrorists. http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/setting_bush_ablaze_the_act_of_a_terrorist
mattyj
handfleisch wrote:
That's really horrible, I'll have to check my Aussie friends to make sure they are okay.

Of course, leave it to a Murdoch-owned Sydney newspaper to make the situation even worse by cynically using the tragedy to whip up fear of Islamic terrorists. http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/setting_bush_ablaze_the_act_of_a_terrorist


trust you to be the first person to mention terrorism in this post

keep your agenda to your own posts and not in this one about the horrible bushfires, k? Rolling Eyes
supernova1987a
How did more than 100 people die? This is ridiculus. No rescue?
mattyj
supernova1987a wrote:
How did more than 100 people die? This is ridiculus. No rescue?


The firestorm was moving so fast that people didnt even get any warning..whole towns have been destroyed (Marysville and Strathewen both only have 1 building left)

The firefighters (90% of which are volunteers) did their best - but the fire moved so fast, and it was spotting 50km ahead of the fire front...how do you deal with that?
Nick2008
I heard that they were moving so fast, you couldn't even escape by car. Shocked
mattyj
Nick2008 wrote:
I heard that they were moving so fast, you couldn't even escape by car. Shocked


Thats how most of the victims died - trying to out run the fire by car, it was travelling more than 250km/hr the fire front
handfleisch
mattyj wrote:
trust you to be the first person to mention terrorism in this post

keep your agenda to your own posts and not in this one about the horrible bushfires, k? Rolling Eyes

Excuse me, but an Australian newspaper published a piece cynically using this tragedy, and it's entirely appropriate to point that out to people on this forum in case they might be interested to know about it. It was offered up as pertinent info, and maybe you shouldn't try to decide for others what they need to know.
mattyj
handfleisch wrote:
mattyj wrote:
trust you to be the first person to mention terrorism in this post

keep your agenda to your own posts and not in this one about the horrible bushfires, k? Rolling Eyes

Excuse me, but an Australian newspaper published a piece cynically using this tragedy, and it's entirely appropriate to point that out to people on this forum in case they might be interested to know about it. It was offered up as pertinent info, and maybe you shouldn't try to decide for others what they need to know.


There is no proof that it WAS or WASNT islamic terrorists

Islamic terrorists have made threats against australia and its people, why is it so far fetched to think that this is what may have caused this?

I think the article was quite within its rights to say what it did
LostOverThere
mattyj wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
mattyj wrote:
trust you to be the first person to mention terrorism in this post

keep your agenda to your own posts and not in this one about the horrible bushfires, k? Rolling Eyes

Excuse me, but an Australian newspaper published a piece cynically using this tragedy, and it's entirely appropriate to point that out to people on this forum in case they might be interested to know about it. It was offered up as pertinent info, and maybe you shouldn't try to decide for others what they need to know.


There is no proof that it WAS or WASNT islamic terrorists

Islamic terrorists have made threats against australia and its people, why is it so far fetched to think that this is what may have caused this?

I think the article was quite within its rights to say what it did


You know, not all the threats made against the country were by Islamic terrorists. Surprisingly, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, Catholics, Muslims and so forth also have believers who are terrorists.

Still, back onto topic. If it was deliberately lit, that's just an unthinkable thing to do. I'm sure whoever did it (if someone did do it) feels very sick inside right now.
jylan
Everyone has to remember that the police are only suspecting arson on a few of the bushfires, there have been (and still are) many different ones that have wreaked havoc in different parts of Victoria.
jmlworld
ocalhoun wrote:
jmlworld wrote:

Hey Jylan, the government should burn those idiots in life, its the only reward they deserve. They are irresponsible greedy murderers. They are not even remorseful of what they did and they are feeling good after all the blazes that claimed the lives of over 120 victims.

Don't you realize that by advocating that, you make yourself no better than they are?


Hmm... I'm not really calling people for revenge, all I'm advocating was to bring whoever caused that disaster in front of the justice.
jmlworld
ocalhoun wrote:
jmlworld wrote:

Hey Jylan, the government should burn those idiots in life, its the only reward they deserve. They are irresponsible greedy murderers. They are not even remorseful of what they did and they are feeling good after all the blazes that claimed the lives of over 120 victims.

Don't you realize that by advocating that, you make yourself no better than they are?


Hmm... I'm not really calling people for revenge, all I was advocating was to bring whoever caused that disaster in front of the justice.
ocalhoun
^Justice okay, but burning them alive?
jmlworld
ocalhoun wrote:
^Justice okay, but burning them alive?


Of course, burning them alive to let them see how bad and painful fire is. I think nobody would do the same again.
ocalhoun
jmlworld wrote:
I think nobody would do the same again.

Somebody needs to look through history... This is normal behavior for humans.
deanhills
jmlworld wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
^Justice okay, but burning them alive?


Of course, burning them alive to let them see how bad and painful fire is. I think nobody would do the same again.


Wouldn't that be like travelling back to the dark middle ages? Burning people publicly at a stake? What kind of justice is that for a civilized country?
jmlworld
deanhills wrote:
Burning people publicly at a stake? What kind of justice is that for a civilized country?


It's justice because it is a punishment. It's not justice because children will attend the scene.

Do you think it is fair to leave the murderers free?
LostOverThere
jmlworld wrote:
Do you think it is fair to leave the murderers free?

Since when did an extremely long jail sentence freedom. Burning people is inhuman and makes you no better then them.
jmlworld
LostOverThere wrote:
jmlworld wrote:
Do you think it is fair to leave the murderers free?

Since when did an extremely long jail sentence freedom. Burning people is inhuman and makes you no better then them.


Does jail eat people? No.. It's a platform of fun.

When a villain kills tens of people, jail means safe place for him. In jail, he can survive from the relatives of the victims and he will get all his demands; splendid food, nice red dress, health care, sports, friends, good books and all in all, granted life.

In the real justice, the criminal should meet a punishment equivalent to the crimes he committed.
mattyj
jmlworld wrote:
LostOverThere wrote:
jmlworld wrote:
Do you think it is fair to leave the murderers free?

Since when did an extremely long jail sentence freedom. Burning people is inhuman and makes you no better then them.


Does jail eat people? No.. It's a platform of fun.

When a villain kills tens of people, jail means safe place for him. In jail, he can survive from the relatives of the victims and he will get all his demands; splendid food, nice red dress, health care, sports, friends, good books and all in all, granted life.

In the real justice, the criminal should meet a punishment equivalent to the crimes he committed.


This is exactly right - You guys didnt see the devastion of these fires first hand..I have, and i hope that the police dont get the arsonists and the victims do and set him/her/them on fire to burn alive
LostOverThere
jmlworld wrote:
In the real justice, the criminal should meet a punishment equivalent to the crimes he committed.

No, in your opinion of real justice, capital punishment is fair. To many others, myself included, it is a cruel and injust punishment. Making us no better then them. Lead by example.

jmlworld wrote:
<snip>splendid food, nice red dress, health care, sports, friends, good books and all in all, granted life.

Wow, this place does sound amazing! Just like the nice warm days and fine dining people experience in hell. Wink

mattyj wrote:
I have, and i hope that the police dont get the arsonists and the victims do and set him/her/them on fire to burn alive

Lets just remember the amount of fires that were there. Sure they may have lit one fire but the amount of fire's combined with the strong winds and horrific weather conditions magnified the condition. Also, in a criminal court it would be hard to prove that the people who lit the fires intended to kill people (unless they admitted it of course) so chances are they would get something around 14 years for manslaughter unless the laws were changed. Even if they were, the large majority of laws are retrospective so unless the bill was to be passed before the suspects were convicted they probably wouldn't get any longer sentence than that.

Don't get me wrong. I think the fires in Victoria are just plain awful and that lighting a fire with those weather conditions is just plain stupid. But I don't think we need to resort to capital punishment to punish the person/persons who deliberately lit the fires.
deanhills
mattyj wrote:
This is exactly right - You guys didnt see the devastion of these fires first hand..I have, and i hope that the police dont get the arsonists and the victims do and set him/her/them on fire to burn alive


Do you think this is justice, or revenge that we are talking about? And if this kind of justice/revenge is to be allowed to happen, where would it all end? Would that entitle all other people to have the same kind of justice/revenge? I'm thinking about South Africa for example where there is plenty of violent crime with no reason other than taking a watch, or wanting to be violent. So as senseless and aweful as it is, do you think it is OK for the families of the victims to go after the perpetrators of violence to get their retribution and revenge? How long would it take for it to become complete anarchy?
LimpFish
deanhills wrote:
LimpFish wrote:
Dude that's crazy. Someone needs to come up with something that prevents these huge fires. I'm not sure what, but there has to be something?


Wouldn't it have been wonderful if scientists could have worked out a way where rains that create flooding in one area of the country could be diverted to those areas which are dry such as the ones in Victoria where all the fires are? Jylan mentioned that their are floods in an area not too far from where the fires are. Surely in this day and age there has to be technology available with which artificial flooding could be designed?


That is an interesting thought indeed. There are methods to manipulate the weather, although not very sofisticated. I wonder if there could be worked out some method to create rain in those areas?
Parkour_Jarrod
We certainly live in a hell of a country we Aussies, how many country's can handle raging bushfires and mass floods in the same time? over 180 dead its hell on earth. there were firefighters that were out fighting the fire when in the same time there wives we killed by the horrendous flames.
mattyj
deanhills wrote:
mattyj wrote:
This is exactly right - You guys didnt see the devastion of these fires first hand..I have, and i hope that the police dont get the arsonists and the victims do and set him/her/them on fire to burn alive


Do you think this is justice, or revenge that we are talking about? And if this kind of justice/revenge is to be allowed to happen, where would it all end? Would that entitle all other people to have the same kind of justice/revenge? I'm thinking about South Africa for example where there is plenty of violent crime with no reason other than taking a watch, or wanting to be violent. So as senseless and aweful as it is, do you think it is OK for the families of the victims to go after the perpetrators of violence to get their retribution and revenge? How long would it take for it to become complete anarchy?


Tell me honestly that you think these people that caused this (they have the one that started the Churchill fire btw) dont DESERVE to suffer the same fate of the innocent people that died from their stupidity? THey lit fires on a 46C day, when there had been no rain for months, with 100km/hr winds, they HAD to know there was a chance people would die....Whether its revenge or justice, they deserve it, you cant deny that, can you?
LostOverThere
I can honestly say I don't think people should be burnt alive. That's just inhumane which disobeys the constitution.

Yes, they need to be punished. A long jail sentence is an excellent punishment, in addition to this. Its also humane.

Also, there were so many bush fires that day - over 400. Although some may have been lit, I'm sure the majority of them were just a result of the harsh condition's that day. It's understandable that people want to point the finger at someone and blame them for everything that's happened. But in reality, although some of the fires may have been lit. A large majority of them were just a result of mother nature. Something we can't deal with.
deanhills
mattyj wrote:
Tell me honestly that you think these people that caused this (they have the one that started the Churchill fire btw) dont DESERVE to suffer the same fate of the innocent people that died from their stupidity? THey lit fires on a 46C day, when there had been no rain for months, with 100km/hr winds, they HAD to know there was a chance people would die....Whether its revenge or justice, they deserve it, you cant deny that, can you?


I agree, justice needs to be served. I hope you find the arsonists.
Parkour_Jarrod
deanhills wrote:
mattyj wrote:
Tell me honestly that you think these people that caused this (they have the one that started the Churchill fire btw) dont DESERVE to suffer the same fate of the innocent people that died from their stupidity? THey lit fires on a 46C day, when there had been no rain for months, with 100km/hr winds, they HAD to know there was a chance people would die....Whether its revenge or justice, they deserve it, you cant deny that, can you?


I agree, justice needs to be served. I hope you find the arsonists.


I also agree justice needs to be served, not only were millions of people around Australia upset but the politicians were crying literally and didn't debate for an entire day
deanhills
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
not only were millions of people around Australia upset but the politicians were crying literally and didn't debate for an entire day


Sounds pretty serious if politicians are crying. Looks positive then for a very serious investigation of the matter, as well it is deserved.
ocalhoun
mattyj wrote:

Tell me honestly that you think these people that caused this (they have the one that started the Churchill fire btw) dont DESERVE to suffer the same fate of the innocent people that died from their stupidity?

Of course they deserve it.
The distinction of a civilized response would be to give them better treatment than they deserve.
If it is decided that for they need to be removed from society for the protection of others, then imprison or kill them. The only reason to punish them cruelly would be to serve as an example for others, but I think a humane death sentence is enough for that.
mattyj
ocalhoun wrote:
mattyj wrote:

Tell me honestly that you think these people that caused this (they have the one that started the Churchill fire btw) dont DESERVE to suffer the same fate of the innocent people that died from their stupidity?

Of course they deserve it.
The distinction of a civilized response would be to give them better treatment than they deserve.
If it is decided that for they need to be removed from society for the protection of others, then imprison or kill them. The only reason to punish them cruelly would be to serve as an example for others, but I think a humane death sentence is enough for that.


And unfortunately that wont happen, because australia does not have capital punishment

So they will go to jail - where they will have access to libraries, internet, cable tv, gym equipment...

Seems fair for these scum of the earth
deanhills
mattyj wrote:

So they will go to jail - where they will have access to libraries, internet, cable tv, gym equipment...

Seems fair for these scum of the earth


Life ain't fair that's for sure. How about all the terror victims in the world? The world has its share of scum, that is for sure. And they are not limited to Australia. I can imagine if these guys are ever apprehended, that they would have to have top security as well, as there must be many Ozzies feeling like you. The perpetrators themselves must be shivering in their boots right now, maybe have even left the country already perhaps? Wherever they travel in Australia, I'm sure they have to face people, news, TV who have a big axe to grind with those guys. Can't be a good place for them to be right now?
Parkour_Jarrod
deanhills wrote:
mattyj wrote:

So they will go to jail - where they will have access to libraries, internet, cable tv, gym equipment...

Seems fair for these scum of the earth


Life ain't fair that's for sure. How about all the terror victims in the world? The world has its share of scum, that is for sure. And they are not limited to Australia. I can imagine if these guys are ever apprehended, that they would have to have top security as well, as there must be many Ozzies feeling like you. The perpetrators themselves must be shivering in their boots right now, maybe have even left the country already perhaps? Wherever they travel in Australia, I'm sure they have to face people, news, TV who have a big axe to grind with those guys. Can't be a good place for them to be right now?


Yes it's not a very good place to be for him right now, the police are scared that vigilantes will take capital punishment into their own hands and kill them on the spot, there have been threats to burn his house down. and to top it off if some people did do that people hate him so much that if someone did kill him they wouldn't have to worry about witnesses because everyone would vouch that the person that killed him didn't so the murderer of the murderer (hes being charged of mass murder) would walk free, though i agree that he should be killed i don't think this is the right way to go about it. We should just give him a heap of cigarettes and let him die with the painfully slow death of lung cancer.
jmlworld
ocalhoun wrote:
mattyj wrote:

Tell me honestly that you think these people that caused this (they have the one that started the Churchill fire btw) dont DESERVE to suffer the same fate of the innocent people that died from their stupidity?

Of course they deserve it.
The distinction of a civilized response would be to give them better treatment than they deserve.
If it is decided that for they need to be removed from society for the protection of others, then imprison or kill them. The only reason to punish them cruelly would be to serve as an example for others, but I think a humane death sentence is enough for that.


At least it would be fine if they were executed normally. Take example for Saudi Arabia, they execute the criminals. They had a terrorist strike in 2002/03. They government has captured the criminals and all went under the executors sword.

Many other countries including the US have rules allowing to execute or lynch some criminals. Unfortunately, Australia and European countries call jail sentence a punishment.
Parkour_Jarrod
jmlworld wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
mattyj wrote:

Tell me honestly that you think these people that caused this (they have the one that started the Churchill fire btw) dont DESERVE to suffer the same fate of the innocent people that died from their stupidity?

Of course they deserve it.
The distinction of a civilized response would be to give them better treatment than they deserve.
If it is decided that for they need to be removed from society for the protection of others, then imprison or kill them. The only reason to punish them cruelly would be to serve as an example for others, but I think a humane death sentence is enough for that.


At least it would be fine if they were executed normally. Take example for Saudi Arabia, they execute the criminals. They had a terrorist strike in 2002/03. They government has captured the criminals and all went under the executors sword.

Many other countries including the US have rules allowing to execute or lynch some criminals. Unfortunately, Australia and European countries call jail sentence a punishment.


Even though Australia does not have capital punishment Kevin Rudd (our Prime Minister) was contemplating putting in an argument at senate to have capital punishment given to these perpetrators (or so i have heard by rumor)
deanhills
jmlworld wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
mattyj wrote:

Tell me honestly that you think these people that caused this (they have the one that started the Churchill fire btw) dont DESERVE to suffer the same fate of the innocent people that died from their stupidity?

Of course they deserve it.
The distinction of a civilized response would be to give them better treatment than they deserve.
If it is decided that for they need to be removed from society for the protection of others, then imprison or kill them. The only reason to punish them cruelly would be to serve as an example for others, but I think a humane death sentence is enough for that.


At least it would be fine if they were executed normally. Take example for Saudi Arabia, they execute the criminals. They had a terrorist strike in 2002/03. They government has captured the criminals and all went under the executors sword.

Many other countries including the US have rules allowing to execute or lynch some criminals. Unfortunately, Australia and European countries call jail sentence a punishment.


I watched "Deadman Walking" last night with Susan Sarandon and I must say capital punishment does not really look good from the point of view of that movie. It showed how very difficult justice is, when you look at "an eye for an eye", justice for the two families who had been traumitized by the loss of their two children (the daughter was raped and stabbed to death and the son shot to death in a drunken and intoxicated orgy), and this guy who was going to get a lethal injection, finally taking responsibility for what he had done. Part of me is for capital punishment, but another part wonder whether those who have to implement the decision of capital punishment would not get tainted by it.
LostOverThere
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:

Even though Australia does not have capital punishment Kevin Rudd (our Prime Minister) was contemplating putting in an argument at senate to have capital punishment given to these perpetrators (or so i have heard by rumor)

No, Kevin Rudd said from the start he was completely against capital punishment.
bigsarg7
Kevin Rudd wouldn't say he is for capital punishment. as for getting a long sentence, this is Victoria where defacto fathers can bach a child to death and only do 3 years jail. I can't see a long sentence here
bigsarg7
There was a really good documentary on the fires on ABC tonight, which had some fantastic footage
jmlworld
deanhills wrote:
Part of me is for capital punishment, but another part wonder whether those who have to implement the decision of capital punishment would not get tainted by it.


Part of me is for capital punishment, too. This is when the criminal committed or involved in intentional murder. Another part of me is against capital punishment and this is when the accused person committed a murder defending himself or unintentionally.
Noremac
Death toll is over 200.
I'm from victoria, my family lost property in the Kinglake fires, though everyone I know is safe and well.
One thing about us Aussies though is the way we come together in times like these, 106 million dollars raised for the bushfire appeal.
Theres no better country.
jmlworld
Noremac wrote:
Death toll is over 200.
I'm from victoria, my family lost property in the Kinglake fires, though everyone I know is safe and well.
One thing about us Aussies though is the way we come together in times like these, 106 million dollars raised for the bushfire appeal.
Theres no better country.


It's great to hear that you and your family are OK despite witnessing all the tragedy there...
LostOverThere
Noremac wrote:
Death toll is over 200.
I'm from victoria, my family lost property in the Kinglake fires, though everyone I know is safe and well.

That's terrible. I'm glad you and your family are alright.
Noremac
Thanks guys, but with everyone coming together its not so hard to get through in my families circumstance, although I can't imagine what its like for the people who have lost loved ones.
deanhills
I hear that it is a Memorial Day in Australia today. So I am sure the World is thinking about you all in Australia. Hope some investment can also be made to figure out how to deal better with the fires next time round. If that is at all possible, as there is nothing so unpredictable as a fire that is burning out of control. Can imagine there will be many people relocating to the coast as far as possible from fire hazards.
Parkour_Jarrod
deanhills wrote:
I hear that it is a Memorial Day in Australia today. So I am sure the World is thinking about you all in Australia. Hope some investment can also be made to figure out how to deal better with the fires next time round. If that is at all possible, as there is nothing so unpredictable as a fire that is burning out of control. Can imagine there will be many people relocating to the coast as far as possible from fire hazards.


Well you're right, a Brisbane Architect has been developing over the past 5 years a fire-proof house, an idea that was inspired by some of the previous bush fires (not as bad but still really bad) and has almost finished the wonderful design.

I can't remember it exactly(ill look for the story) but some of the features were Fire Brick walls & fireproof garage doors.

Each indoor door was a uhm i think the word is Fireblock? not sure but it blocks the fire spreading through the rest of the house if it does get inside through an open (fireproof) window. It also had something to do with water and some massive water tanks etc, etc ill look for the link
Noremac
My old house in Upwey just got burned down by the new fires there, and many of my old highschool friends houses, terrible to hear.
deanhills
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
Well you're right, a Brisbane Architect has been developing over the past 5 years a fire-proof house, an idea that was inspired by some of the previous bush fires (not as bad but still really bad) and has almost finished the wonderful design.

I can't remember it exactly(ill look for the story) but some of the features were Fire Brick walls & fireproof garage doors.

Each indoor door was a uhm i think the word is Fireblock? not sure but it blocks the fire spreading through the rest of the house if it does get inside through an open (fireproof) window. It also had something to do with water and some massive water tanks etc, etc ill look for the link


On thing I have always admired about Ozzies, is how creative they are with new design. This sounds absolutely brilliant. Hope that it will be marketable though, i.e. not too expensive. Can imagine there will be other designs coming up soon in competition.
deanhills
deanhills wrote:
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
Well you're right, a Brisbane Architect has been developing over the past 5 years a fire-proof house, an idea that was inspired by some of the previous bush fires (not as bad but still really bad) and has almost finished the wonderful design.

I can't remember it exactly(ill look for the story) but some of the features were Fire Brick walls & fireproof garage doors.

Each indoor door was a uhm i think the word is Fireblock? not sure but it blocks the fire spreading through the rest of the house if it does get inside through an open (fireproof) window. It also had something to do with water and some massive water tanks etc, etc ill look for the link


One thing I have always admired about Ozzies, is how creative they are with new design. This sounds absolutely brilliant. Hope that it will be marketable though, i.e. not too expensive. Can imagine there will be other designs coming up soon in competition.
Parkour_Jarrod
deanhills wrote:
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
Well you're right, a Brisbane Architect has been developing over the past 5 years a fire-proof house, an idea that was inspired by some of the previous bush fires (not as bad but still really bad) and has almost finished the wonderful design.

I can't remember it exactly(ill look for the story) but some of the features were Fire Brick walls & fireproof garage doors.

Each indoor door was a uhm i think the word is Fireblock? not sure but it blocks the fire spreading through the rest of the house if it does get inside through an open (fireproof) window. It also had something to do with water and some massive water tanks etc, etc ill look for the link


On thing I have always admired about Ozzies, is how creative they are with new design. This sounds absolutely brilliant. Hope that it will be marketable though, i.e. not too expensive. Can imagine there will be other designs coming up soon in competition.


Yeah, thats the final kink in it he's trying to smooth out make it affordable because at the moment its about $900,000-$1,500,000 AUD. he wants it down to an average house price (300-700)
Noremac
deanhills wrote:
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:
Well you're right, a Brisbane Architect has been developing over the past 5 years a fire-proof house, an idea that was inspired by some of the previous bush fires (not as bad but still really bad) and has almost finished the wonderful design.

I can't remember it exactly(ill look for the story) but some of the features were Fire Brick walls & fireproof garage doors.

Each indoor door was a uhm i think the word is Fireblock? not sure but it blocks the fire spreading through the rest of the house if it does get inside through an open (fireproof) window. It also had something to do with water and some massive water tanks etc, etc ill look for the link


On thing I have always admired about Ozzies, is how creative they are with new design. This sounds absolutely brilliant. Hope that it will be marketable though, i.e. not too expensive. Can imagine there will be other designs coming up soon in competition.


Funny how quickly a great lifesaving solution is most likely gonna turn into a money making scheme...
deanhills
Noremac wrote:
Funny how quickly a great lifesaving solution is most likely gonna turn into a money making scheme...


It was the same in South Africa when ESKOM, the electricity supply company in South Africa (Government owned of course) had to cut power. They did it randomly, without any warning. You would for example be driving and all of a sudden all the traffic lights were not working anymore, watch a TV programme and your programme will cut out. It was done in blocks, so some would have electricity and others not. As you can imagine, it drove havock with industry. Imagine those deep hot mines, and the lifts all of a sudden stopping. It was a threat to safety and some of the mines closed in protest. Shopping malls had to close, and again without any warning in advance, that was randomly done. Someone would be having their hair done, and when it gets to drying it, or in the middle of a wash, all of a sudden no electricity.

Anyway, back to the point of the story, when it started, as you can imagine, all diesel generators were bought up, and people started to design equipment such as automatic lights. I.e. when the electricity goes off, then the lights would kick in automatically. All kinds of novel designs. The situation is apparently much improved. But South Africa has a serious problem. Just before independence in 1997 some of the engineers there had designed some amazing projects for implementation around 2000. It was done with solid forethought and planning. First thing that happened after independence waas that some of those engineers were worked out, others left and skilled manpower suffered as a result. Then when 2000 came the Government thought it was unnecessary to build new power stations. The power cuts are a result of that. They have some serious catching up to do.
Noremac
deanhills wrote:

It was the same in South Africa when ESKOM, the electricity supply company in South Africa (Government owned of course) had to cut power. They did it randomly, without any warning. You would for example be driving and all of a sudden all the traffic lights were not working anymore, watch a TV programme and your programme will cut out. It was done in blocks, so some would have electricity and others not. As you can imagine, it drove havock with industry. Imagine those deep hot mines, and the lifts all of a sudden stopping. It was a threat to safety and some of the mines closed in protest. Shopping malls had to close, and again without any warning in advance, that was randomly done. Someone would be having their hair done, and when it gets to drying it, or in the middle of a wash, all of a sudden no electricity.

Anyway, back to the point of the story, when it started, as you can imagine, all diesel generators were bought up, and people started to design equipment such as automatic lights. I.e. when the electricity goes off, then the lights would kick in automatically. All kinds of novel designs. The situation is apparently much improved. But South Africa has a serious problem. Just before independence in 1997 some of the engineers there had designed some amazing projects for implementation around 2000. It was done with solid forethought and planning. First thing that happened after independence waas that some of those engineers were worked out, others left and skilled manpower suffered as a result. Then when 2000 came the Government thought it was unnecessary to build new power stations. The power cuts are a result of that. They have some serious catching up to do.


Interesting, good research I was unaware of this. Ahh the stupidity and greed in our world.
paul_indo
When I lived in Sydney in th 90's there wer big bush fires that came to the next ridge from my house, real scary.
pumpin
wow! what an horrible event to live in such an area. I sincerely sympathize with everyone in Australia whose property or family has been touched by the fire Exclamation
deanhills
pumpin wrote:
wow! what an horrible event to live in such an area. I sincerely sympathize with everyone in Australia whose property or family has been touched by the fire Exclamation


Definitely. Probably this is the time of the year that one should stay away from those areas where there could be fires. Camp out on the beach! Probably a large number of people are going to move away to the coastal areas where there is no threat of fire. I can imagine once a person has survived something as scary as that, that they would like to get away from it as far as possible. Like the Californians who have lived through earthquakes. Many have moved to different States as far as possible from the fault zones.
mattyj
deanhills wrote:
pumpin wrote:
wow! what an horrible event to live in such an area. I sincerely sympathize with everyone in Australia whose property or family has been touched by the fire Exclamation


Definitely. Probably this is the time of the year that one should stay away from those areas where there could be fires. Camp out on the beach! Probably a large number of people are going to move away to the coastal areas where there is no threat of fire. I can imagine once a person has survived something as scary as that, that they would like to get away from it as far as possible. Like the Californians who have lived through earthquakes. Many have moved to different States as far as possible from the fault zones.


The australian bush comes right up to the coast - just as much chance of bushfires in coastal areas as there is anywhere else.
deanhills
mattyj wrote:
The australian bush comes right up to the coast - just as much chance of bushfires in coastal areas as there is anywhere else.


I was wondering about that. Smile Thanks for letting us know. In your opinion, which areas in Australia would be safe from bush fires during the fire season?
nigam
I am so sorry to those aussies who have been hurt by the bush fires...I have heard two fellow filipino brother and sister was burnt too....my condolences to their family....Hope this won't happen again....
mattyj
deanhills wrote:
mattyj wrote:
The australian bush comes right up to the coast - just as much chance of bushfires in coastal areas as there is anywhere else.


I was wondering about that. Smile Thanks for letting us know. In your opinion, which areas in Australia would be safe from bush fires during the fire season?


Unless youre right in the middle of one of the big cities (Melbourne or Sydney) - no where is truly safe from bushfires, even outer suburbs are at high risk

The one that nearly destroyed our investment property was in a suburb of a town of 100,000 people...
deanhills
mattyj wrote:
Unless youre right in the middle of one of the big cities (Melbourne or Sydney) - no where is truly safe from bushfires, even outer suburbs are at high risk

The one that nearly destroyed our investment property was in a suburb of a town of 100,000 people...


Well I guess that leaves New Zealand ..... ? Or does it Wink
mattyj
deanhills wrote:
mattyj wrote:
Unless youre right in the middle of one of the big cities (Melbourne or Sydney) - no where is truly safe from bushfires, even outer suburbs are at high risk

The one that nearly destroyed our investment property was in a suburb of a town of 100,000 people...


Well I guess that leaves New Zealand ..... ? Or does it Wink


New Zealand would be an absolute last resort Wink
deanhills
mattyj wrote:
deanhills wrote:
mattyj wrote:
Unless youre right in the middle of one of the big cities (Melbourne or Sydney) - no where is truly safe from bushfires, even outer suburbs are at high risk

The one that nearly destroyed our investment property was in a suburb of a town of 100,000 people...


Well I guess that leaves New Zealand ..... ? Or does it Wink


New Zealand would be an absolute last resort Wink

Am sure I heard an absolute sigh of relief in New Zealand Wink
LimpFish
When the forces of nature go at it, generally us humans cannot do anything about it more than repair the damages after. It is kinda scary to think about actually.... No way to stop earthquakes, or tidal waves, storms or stuff like that...
deanhills
LimpFish wrote:
When the forces of nature go at it, generally us humans cannot do anything about it more than repair the damages after. It is kinda scary to think about actually.... No way to stop earthquakes, or tidal waves, storms or stuff like that...
... true, and the really BIG one at the end of it all, i.e. when we pass away. Smile That is about the only thing we can be certain off, and of course taxes Smile
LimpFish
deanhills wrote:
LimpFish wrote:
When the forces of nature go at it, generally us humans cannot do anything about it more than repair the damages after. It is kinda scary to think about actually.... No way to stop earthquakes, or tidal waves, storms or stuff like that...
... true, and the really BIG one at the end of it all, i.e. when we pass away. Smile That is about the only thing we can be certain off, and of course taxes Smile


hehe you are so right about that. living in Sweden, who probably (or at least used to) have the highest tax pressure in the world, I'm very aware of that Very Happy
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