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Octuplets mom says she longed to escape loneliness





icecool
ooo wow great.

Quote:
WHITTIER, Calif. In her first interview since giving birth to octuplets, Nadya Suleman tells NBC she wanted a huge family to make up for the isolation she says she always felt as an only child.


i thinks thats a bit extreme. feel lonely? join a club. go out a bit. learn dancing. play cards. get a dog or some goldfish. get a LIFE.

but do NOT bring 14 HUMAN BEINGS into this world because YOU feel lonely.

what is wrong with people? have they no thought and consideration?
so ok, that poor woman had a bad chidlhood - so have lots fo people.
she feels lonely - we all do at some stage in our lives - some more, some less.
need to kee yourself busy and intersted in life?
great - do something that doesnt affect others adversely.

but to give birth to 14 kids, by artificial insamination, that is just purely criminal in my mind.

and not just by HER.
somebody had to pay for it all - it's not cheap.
some doctor had to do the technical bits.
is that ethical?

i think the whole affair is sad.
we need licenses to drive. to have dogs. to have weapons at home.
why is it so easy to have kids?
parenting is the most complicated job on earth - and the result if you screw up are devastating - not only for the kid but more often than not for society as well.

do i disagree?
yep.
im disgusted.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090206/ap_on_re_us/octuplets
deanhills
Wonder how much Angelina Jolie's aspirations for a large family is influencing other women to follow the same act. Would be interesting to do some research into this. Smile
Xanatos
deanhills wrote:
Wonder how much Angelina Jolie's aspirations for a large family is influencing other women to follow the same act. Would be interesting to do some research into this. Smile


I doubt that angelina jolie had any affect on this woman. she obviously has some sort of psychological disorder.
deanhills
Xanatos wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Wonder how much Angelina Jolie's aspirations for a large family is influencing other women to follow the same act. Would be interesting to do some research into this. Smile


I doubt that angelina jolie had any affect on this woman. she obviously has some sort of psychological disorder.


You are probably right, however someone who is psychologically not of the best, may well pick up on the Bragelina bunch as fanciful. Sort of a crazy thing to do. Does not say that Angelina's choices are that much less crazy either. But at least she can afford it, and seems to be pretty dedicated in what she is doing.
ThePolemistis
icecool wrote:
ooo wow great.

Quote:
WHITTIER, Calif. In her first interview since giving birth to octuplets, Nadya Suleman tells NBC she wanted a huge family to make up for the isolation she says she always felt as an only child.


i thinks thats a bit extreme. feel lonely? join a club. go out a bit. learn dancing. play cards. get a dog or some goldfish. get a LIFE.

but do NOT bring 14 HUMAN BEINGS into this world because YOU feel lonely.


No its not... if u read the quote carefully, you will see that its because of loneliness she felt of being the only child. Therefore her children won't feel that loneliness. It's for her children, not her!


icecool wrote:

we need licenses to drive. to have dogs. to have weapons at home.
why is it so easy to have kids?
parenting is the most complicated job on earth - and the result if you screw up are devastating - not only for the kid but more often than not for society as well.


That is a stupid analogy.
First, cars are not living organisms.
And yes you need a license to have children. If you are biologically unfit to have children, you can't have children. In China, most cannot have more than one child. And the law doesn't limit how many dogs you can have either.
How is parenting complex? Parenting is natural - we have been doing it for millions of years. . Every single organism does parenting. Survival of the fittest. Sure, you get a few retarded incidents where the parents would kill their own children, but that defeats evolution and hence these backward species will only decrease in our scoiety and not increase - as they wont produce.

icecool wrote:

do i disagree?
yep.
im disgusted.


Then shame on you!! If you want to enforce who can and cannot have children based simply upon your view that too many children are bad or that the need to have many children by mothers is wrong... then you might as well join the club who limit offspring based on racial classfication -- go join nazi germany!!
Xanatos
ThePolemistis wrote:
No its not... if u read the quote carefully, you will see that its because of loneliness she felt of being the only child. Therefore her children won't feel that loneliness. It's for her children, not her!


Better option here... She could have not had any children or only 2 or 3 children, not 14 that she couldn't afford.

Quote:
How is parenting complex? Parenting is natural - we have been doing it for millions of years. . Every single organism does parenting. Survival of the fittest. Sure, you get a few retarded incidents where the parents would kill their own children, but that defeats evolution and hence these backward species will only decrease in our scoiety and not increase - as they wont produce.


Parenting is complex. Either you have never had children or are a really bad parent. Either way your reference to evolution makes absolutely no sense.

Quote:
Then shame on you!! If you want to enforce who can and cannot have children based simply upon your view that too many children are bad or that the need to have many children by mothers is wrong... then you might as well join the club who limit offspring based on racial classfication -- go join nazi germany!!


This woman has a serious problem. She is neither financially or psychologically fit to have 14 children. This is not the same as being a Nazi or a Racist or whatever. Who is going to take care of these kids? Feed them? buy them clothes? Not everything is based on hate and discrimination.
jabce85
wasn't this the woman who supposedly took no fertility drugs?
ThePolemistis
Xanatos wrote:

Better option here... She could have not had any children or only 2 or 3 children, not 14 that she couldn't afford.


Why are you denying her right to have children?
People buy cars, houses and much more things that they cannot afford. Why don't you cry at these people?
Having 14 children is a long term investment. You will definetly see a greater return if she lives til 60, and not jus financially either.


Xanatos wrote:

Parenting is complex. Either you have never had children or are a really bad parent. Either way your reference to evolution makes absolutely no sense.


How is parenting complex? Either you have not socialised with other human beings, or you are from a different planet.

Xanatos wrote:

This woman has a serious problem. She is neither financially or psychologically fit to have 14 children. This is not the same as being a Nazi or a Racist or whatever. Who is going to take care of these kids? Feed them? buy them clothes? Not everything is based on hate and discrimination.


She has never been on welfare benefits and doesn't plan to go on it, unlike most single mothers would probably do in her situation.
And she has outlined how the kids would be taken care of.

Most of Americans are riddled with debt. Are you saying they are not financially fit to even buy food to survive??

How is she not psychologically fit? Most of Americans single mother teens are on depression drugs.
Her dream is to become a mother - to have children - because she loves children. That's her love and her passion. What right do you have in saying she is not psychologically fit to have them?
Xanatos
ThePolemistis wrote:
Why are you denying her right to have children?
People buy cars, houses and much more things that they cannot afford. Why don't you cry at these people?
Having 14 children is a long term investment. You will definetly see a greater return if she lives til 60, and not jus financially either.


You buy a car you cannot afford it affects you. You have children that you cannot take care of and it affects their life forever. And what greater return are you talking about?

Quote:
How is parenting complex? Either you have not socialised with other human beings, or you are from a different planet.


We are talking about a persons life here. A parent much teach his/her children to be respectable members of society. This is a complex job. One which many parents fail at.

Quote:
She has never been on welfare benefits and doesn't plan to go on it, unlike most single mothers would probably do in her situation.
And she has outlined how the kids would be taken care of.


What outline would that be?

Quote:
How is she not psychologically fit? Most of Americans single mother teens are on depression drugs.
Her dream is to become a mother - to have children - because she loves children. That's her love and her passion. What right do you have in saying she is not psychologically fit to have them?


There is no comparison here between a teenage single mother and this woman. Most teenage single mothers have one child, and understand their mistake. This woman has now 14 children and would have more if she could. It is not her love and her passion. It is her obsession and addiction.
ThePolemistis
Xanatos wrote:

You buy a car you cannot afford it affects you. You have children that you cannot take care of and it affects their life forever. And what greater return are you talking about?


And y u saying she won't be able to manage to take care of her children? Just because you may not, doesn't mean she won't be able to.
And if you wanna remain pessimistic about life, you can. Don't make people feel pessimistic about theirs. Your ideas are like: what is the point of an old person learning a language for instance, when he would probably live 5 more years at max.

The greater return I am talking about is financial, but mainly the love. The love a women will have towards her children is most likely more than anything else she would ever love. And for how many women has their children been their inspiration to keep going?


Xanatos wrote:

We are talking about a persons life here. A parent much teach his/her children to be respectable members of society. This is a complex job. One which many parents fail at.


How did you measure the fact that most parents failed at parenting?


Xanatos wrote:

What outline would that be?


job, team working, church, friends, family etc etc.

Xanatos wrote:

There is no comparison here between a teenage single mother and this woman. Most teenage single mothers have one child, and understand their mistake. This woman has now 14 children and would have more if she could. It is not her love and her passion. It is her obsession and addiction.


Most teenage single mothers have one child and understand their mistake because they did not want that child in the first place.
She wanted children, and she has a right to have them.
Why should we deny her her dream when it doesn't endanger anyone else?
And her "obbsession and addiction" for (legal) love? isn't that what the world needs?
Xanatos
ThePolemistis wrote:
And y u saying she won't be able to manage to take care of her children? Just because you may not, doesn't mean she won't be able to.
And if you wanna remain pessimistic about life, you can. Don't make people feel pessimistic about theirs. Your ideas are like: what is the point of an old person learning a language for instance, when he would probably live 5 more years at max.


I'm not being pessimistic at all. An older person should absolutely learn a new language if they want to. Doing things that enrich your life and the lives of others are important no matter how old you are. This woman is not going to enrich the life of her children in this way.

Quote:
How did you measure the fact that most parents failed at parenting?


I never said most.

Quote:
Why should we deny her her dream when it doesn't endanger anyone else?


It endangers her children. Her children have the right to a good childhood.

Quote:
And her "obbsession and addiction" for (legal) love? isn't that what the world needs?

It is not an addiction to love, it is an addiction to having children, which is not what the world needs.
Bikerman
Well, according to the UK reporting of the issue:
a) She is a single mom - completely irrelevant in my opinion.
b) She has mental health issues
c) She insisted on being implanted with 6 eggs rather than a lesser amount
d) She has no obvious means of support for her and her existing 6 children - let alone the new 8

Now, presumably she will earn a pretty penny from flogging her story to the media and this might well provide the means of support for her newly enlarged family. Personally I find the ethics involved in such a transaction to be troubling and I have other ethical problems with the decision to implant her with 6 eggs without some more detailed examination of her existing circumstances.
Xanatos
Bikerman wrote:
Now, presumably she will earn a pretty penny from flogging her story to the media and this might well provide the means of support for her newly enlarged family. Personally I find the ethics involved in such a transaction to be troubling and I have other ethical problems with the decision to implant her with 6 eggs without some more detailed examination of her existing circumstances.


I completely agree. I read somewhere this morning that she wanted 2 million dollars to appear on Oprah. Utterly ridiculous.
Bikerman
I also have a great problem with this notion of a 'right' to have children.
To me that notion is a nonsense. If you talk in those terms then presumably the 'golden rule' applies and you must therefore grant all people the same 'right'. That means that all men and women have am equal 'right' to have children. Now, clearly, men are not biologically equipped to have children and post-menopausal women are not equipped to have children. Does that mean that these two groups of people have the 'right' to be implanted with fertilised eggs? Of course not - nobody I know would argue that - the idea is nonsensical.
The idea, therefore, that infertile women have the 'right' to have children is, to me, equally nonsensical. I would support their quest to have a child and I believe it is right that the state supports that quest - to talk about 'rights', however, seems to me to be fundamentally wrong-headed.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
I also have a great problem with this notion of a 'right' to have children.
To me that notion is a nonsense. If you talk in those terms then presumably the 'golden rule' applies and you must therefore grant all people the same 'right'. That means that all men and women have am equal 'right' to have children. Now, clearly, men are not biologically equipped to have children and post-menopausal women are not equipped to have children. Does that mean that these two groups of people have the 'right' to be implanted with fertilised eggs? Of course not - nobody I know would argue that - the idea is nonsensical.
The idea, therefore, that infertile women have the 'right' to have children is, to me, equally nonsensical. I would support their quest to have a child and I believe it is right that the state supports that quest - to talk about 'rights', however, seems to me to be fundamentally wrong-headed.


Agreed Chris.

I am also completely mystified by this, as surely a medical doctor who helped with the fertilization treatment would have picked up on all of the obvious limitations and refused fertility treatment to the woman under the heading of the doctor being "professional" and "ethical":

(a) The woman has enough children and obviously is psychologically not completely with it so possibly not fit to look after the children she already has, not to mention the ones that have been added through the fertility treatment.
(b) Who paid for her fertilization treatment? I thought she had financial problems, was single and had to look after the children she already had? I thought hospitals usually demanded upfront payment for treatments like this?
(c) Usually there is a long list of ethical questions asked with procedures, like for example heart and other organ donors. Surely there has to be some in this case too? I would have thought the medical doctor who implanted the fertilized eggs need to be sorted out on this at a hearing? Or were they using her as some kind of guinea pig? Common sense says that someone has to get some flak from this.
Jinx
I think this woman was being very irresponsible and selfish.. It takes a lot of energy and resources to raise children. I know I could barely keep up with four, I can't imagine trying to give enough attention to 14. Even if she had a decent income, splitting resources between 14 kids means that they aren't going to have much quality of life. I mean, there may be enough for them to eat, but how is she going to manage to send 14 kids to college? How is it fair to the children to have to compete for their mother's time and attention?
And money... raising children is very expensive. Diapers and formula are not cheap, then you get into daycare, then school... I know we spent about $100 per child just getting school supplies at the start of the year, $200 if you count clothing. that means when all of her kids are in school she will have to spend around $2,800 just to get them ready for the school year, every year. Probably more because cost of living is higher in California.
We went through about $600 dollars a month in groceries with two adults and four kids. She'll be feeding 15 people, so she'll need around $2,400 a month just for groceries. Add in things like school field trips, dentist appointments, the inevitable emergency room visits, cold medicine (cause when one of them comes down with a cold, they will all get it), shoes, utility bills (how much water will she go through just giving them baths each evening, or doing laundry?). And how will she get them all from one place to another.. they don't make mini-vans big enough for 15 people. She'll need a gas (or diesel) guzzling bus just to haul them around in.

And she was irresponsible to society as well. This planet already has a population problem, and she only added to it. There are thousands of kids languishing in foster homes in need of someone to care for them. If she really needed a multitude of children to care for wouldn't it have been better to adopt some of the children out there who really need a mother - oh, wait, she probably couldn't have because the foster system has standards.

And I did read somewhere that the fertility doctors who implanted her with 8 embryos are being investigated by the appropriate medical ethics board.
deanhills
Jinx wrote:
And I did read somewhere that the fertility doctors who implanted her with 8 embryos are being investigated by the appropriate medical ethics board.
This is good news Jinx. As the fertility doctors are supposed to be professional and ethical according to the Board exams that they have to qualify for. The woman receiving the treatment probably was not thinking much about what she was doing in the big picture of things. How she managed to do this just simply boggles the mind, especially when you find people with real medical problems in the US seeking genuine medical treatment and being refused treatment when they have limited means.
mattyj
icecool wrote:
ooo wow great.

Quote:
WHITTIER, Calif. In her first interview since giving birth to octuplets, Nadya Suleman tells NBC she wanted a huge family to make up for the isolation she says she always felt as an only child.


i thinks thats a bit extreme. feel lonely? join a club. go out a bit. learn dancing. play cards. get a dog or some goldfish. get a LIFE.

but do NOT bring 14 HUMAN BEINGS into this world because YOU feel lonely.

what is wrong with people? have they no thought and consideration?
so ok, that poor woman had a bad chidlhood - so have lots fo people.
she feels lonely - we all do at some stage in our lives - some more, some less.
need to kee yourself busy and intersted in life?
great - do something that doesnt affect others adversely.

but to give birth to 14 kids, by artificial insamination, that is just purely criminal in my mind.

and not just by HER.
somebody had to pay for it all - it's not cheap.
some doctor had to do the technical bits.
is that ethical?

i think the whole affair is sad.
we need licenses to drive. to have dogs. to have weapons at home.
why is it so easy to have kids?
parenting is the most complicated job on earth - and the result if you screw up are devastating - not only for the kid but more often than not for society as well.

do i disagree?
yep.
im disgusted.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090206/ap_on_re_us/octuplets


I agree with you 100%

She didnt want her kids to be lonely? Have 2 or 3 kids...Dont have friggin 14!

Its stupidity to the highest order...and a single mum so im guessing shes living on welfare money? Im glad its not in australia sucking up my tax dollars!
ocalhoun
mattyj wrote:

Its stupidity to the highest order...and a single mum so im guessing shes living on welfare money? Im glad its not in australia sucking up my tax dollars!

If she's the one I've heard of, the children are supported by their grandmother, who was very against her getting more children.

If you're lonely and want a LOT of kids, go work at a day-care or an elementary school.
jsfdan
All I can say is.. christmas and birthdays will be hell and hetic. :S

Dang.. 14 kids.
la_Duchess
In all of the articles and interviews, the one question that has never been answered is, where is the 1.5 million coming from to pay for the babies care at the hospital and how does she take care of her 6 other children with no income?
ocalhoun
la_Duchess wrote:
In all of the articles and interviews, the one question that has never been answered is, where is the 1.5 million coming from to pay for the babies care at the hospital and how does she take care of her 6 other children with no income?

Government handouts.
(We pay for it.)
prithvi
Wow! I was not aware that she already had 6 kids earlier!

Bringing them up will be like rigorous imprisonment for the years to come Wink
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