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| In your famous book, “The Holocaust Industry,” you argue that the state of Israel, one of the world’s most formidable military powers, with a horrendous human rights record, cast itself as a victim state in order to garner immunity to criticism. Have we seen this during the Gaza operation?
They tried to use the Holocaust; it was funny in a very sick way. The leader of the American Jewish Committee, David Harris, wrote an article, and he said it is no coincidence that this war in Gaza is occurring around Jan. 27, which is Holocaust Remembrance Day. He wants to pretend some connection. In fact there is a connection, and the connection is Israel is committing a holocaust in Gaza. But that is not the connection he had in mind. He wanted to play the Holocaust card; I think that it is not working very much anymore. It was clear that during this last massacre in Gaza, liberal Jewish public opinion turned against Israel. If you look at the petitions, demonstrations, letters, support to Israel, not only in the international community but also among the Jewish community, is diminishing. So the Holocaust card, the anti-Semitic card, is not working as efficiently as it was working once. You will probably be called anti-Semitic as well. I do not think this propaganda is successful anymore. In your book “Beyond Chutzpah,” you argue that Israel was created after the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but the question whether it was premeditated remains to be answered. If it is premeditated, then can it be called genocide? Well, it was premeditated, and I think the record is pretty clear. Even Israel’s former minister of foreign affairs, Shlomo Ben-Ami, in his book published several years ago called “Scars of War,” said that it was quite clear that it was a premeditated expulsion in 1948 and it was anchored in the Zionist philosophy of transfer. Ethnic cleansings are ethnic cleansings, and they are war crimes. Why do you think US media is so one-sided and so pro-Israeli? I think it has two components. First of all, Israel serves American interests in the region and American media always give a free pass to those states that serve American interests. That is the overall picture and not much different from other parts of the world. The horrendous governments like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, they also get free passes in the American media. This is the larger context. And there is, of course, the secondary factor, which is the ethnic element. In many of these newspapers and the media in general, there is a large Jewish presence, and there is a sense of Jewish ethnic solidarity, which plays a role. But I think we have to qualify the secondary factor in two ways. We should not lose sight of the primary factor, which is Israel is the client state of US. No. 2: In this past war, the liberal Jewish population mostly under the age of 40 completely defected from the war, the massacre. They have been opposed to the massacres from the first day. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has been very critical of Israel on Gaza, and some American circles lambasted him in return. What do you think about his stance? I wish he had done further. I wish he had gone as far as Qatar, Mauritania, Bolivia and Venezuela in breaking diplomatic relations with that lunatic state. But as far as he has gone, the point on which he stands, has been terrific. And I was glad to see Hamas respected the gestures of the Turkish government and said they would be willing to have Turkish troops stationed on “our border.” That is a very high praise for the Turkish government. Turks are showing Palestinians compassion, decency and justice. All the Turkish people should take pride of this stance as was the case on the eve of the American invasion of Iraq in 2003. It was the Turkish people and government who showed courage. Ninety-six percent of Turkish people opposed the war in Iraq. The Turkish government refused to give Americans use of their land to attack Iraq. Now Turkish people and Turkish government are redeeming themselves again by standing on what is right, what is decent and what is just. I say the highest praise for Erdoğan and the Turkish people. How do you feel about Israel’s operation in Gaza personally as the son of Holocaust survivors? It has been a long time since I felt any emotional connection with the state of Israel, which relentlessly and brutally and inhumanly keeps these vicious, murderous wars. It is a vandal state. There is a Russian writer who once described vandal states as Genghis Khan with a telegraph. Israel is Genghis Khan with a computer. I feel no emotion of affinity with that state. I have some good friends and their families there, and of course I would not want any of them to be hurt. That said, sometimes I feel that Israel has come out of the boils of the hell, a satanic state. Ninety percent of the population continues to cheer, to exalt and feel proud and heroic. They send a Sherman tank to a playground and torch children. Is this heroism? Is this courage? You were not allowed to teach at DePaul University despite a very good academic record and also had some problems in getting your Ph.D. from Princeton. Why? Well, I had some problems. I really cannot discuss my problems in the face of what is going on in Gaza. It will be so silly, trivial and stupid. Three hundred or so children -- they were incinerated to death; phosphor bombs were thrown indiscriminately over Gaza. Everything these people wanted to rebuild, rebuild and rebuild was destroyed again. This state invaded in 1978, again in 1982, again in 1993, again in 1996, again in 2006, and 2008, and it always destroys, destroys and destroys. And then these satanic narcissistic people throw their hands up in the air and ask, “Why doesn’t anybody love us? Why don’t our neighbors want us to be here?” Why would they? |
| handfleisch wrote: |
| UK Jewish lawmaker: Israeli forces acting like Nazis
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/01/16/uk.israel.debate/ I didn't say it, but Gerald Kaufman, whose family went thru the Holocaust, did. |
| http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/01/16/uk.israel.debate/ wrote: |
| STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Jewish UK lawmaker calls on Israel to talk to Hamas, a "deeply nasty organization" UK government: "Hamas made a brutal choice to step up attacks" on civilians UK PM calls shelling of U.N.'s main aid HQ compound in Gaza "indefensible" UK has seen several protests since conflict began, both pro- and anti-Israel |
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| Livni's Belgium trip almost cancelled due to lawsuit concerns
Foreign minister's visit to Brussels nearly canceled due to report she may face legal action over Israeli offensive in Gaza. Report deemed false, Livni to address EU foreign ministers as scheduled Roni Sofer Israel's concerns about possible international lawsuits following Operation Cast Lead is apparently growing, as even the fate of Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni's trip to Brussels remained vague until the very last minute, fearing she may face legal action in Belgium for alleged war crimes. |
| handfleisch wrote: |
| Report deemed false, Livni to address EU foreign ministers as scheduled
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| ocalhoun wrote: | ||
You do read the articles you post, right? |
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Jerusalem has even issued a travel advisory for top IDF officials, urging them to refrain from visiting several European countries. |
| sondosia wrote: |
| Maybe the reason Jews are afraid to travel to Europe is because some people there think it's appropriate to express their opinions by defacing Jewish places of worship and attacking rabbis on the streets.. |
| handfleisch wrote: |
| Livni to address EU foreign ministers as scheduled
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| handfleisch wrote: |
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her trip was indeed postponed |
| handfleisch wrote: | ||
Uh, maybe not; nice try to dishonestly sidetrack the discussion though. This is about Israeli war crimes, not persecution of the Jews. I have had plenty of meetings with Jewish people in Europe -- they were not afraid. But in a better world, international war criminals of any stripe would be afraid to travel for fear of facing justice in the form of a fair trial, which is a lot more than the slaughtered innocents, and the thousands of people with totally ruined lives, got in Gaza. |
| ocalhoun wrote: | ||||
Now I really do have a lack of comprehension! How can it be both postponed and as scheduled? |
| sondosia wrote: |
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So apparently I need to explain my rationale for posting a valid point rather than simply posting it. You and others were insinuating that Israelis are afraid to go to Europe because they would be considered war criminals. I'm arguing that they're afraid to go to Europe because part of the European Muslim community doesn't know how to express opinions peacefully. I don't know which Jewish Europeans you've talked to, but it definitely wasn't the rabbis who could've lost their lives. It definitely wasn't the Jews who showed up to synagogue services one morning to see disgusting anti-semitic remarks scrawled on the walls. Did you even bother to read the articles I posted before calling my opinion a "dishonest sidetrack"? I would suggest that rather than posting fifty anti-Israel threads on this forum, you actually examine both sides of the issue first. And writing off others' thoughts as irrelevant sidetracks is NOT part of examining the whole issue. I'm not denying that what happened to INNOCENT Gaza civilians is horrible--but it's war. Not every war is genocide. Most of the Palestinians who died in the Gaza war were Hamas militants. Some were civilians. Such is the price we pay for war; such is the price we pay for the existence of groups like Hamas in this world. |
| handfleisch wrote: |
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You're still wrong. |
| handfleisch wrote: | ||||||
You really have nowhere to go, do you? So you try to pick apart word choice, completely disregarding the points. |
| ocalhoun wrote: |
| How can it be both delayed and on-time? |
| ocalhoun wrote: |
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You can insert any synonymous words you like there, but the problem still exists... one of these statements must be false. |
| handfleisch wrote: |
| "Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni's trip to Brussels remained vague until the very last minute"
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| while ignoring the rest of the sentence, "fearing she may face legal action in Belgium for alleged war crimes," which is the point of the article and thread. |
| GLOBALSTRATEGY wrote: |
| "For close to a month, the UN accused the Israel of hitting the educational compound ran by its Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees, which was sheltering more than 1,300 Gazans as the IDF battled Hamas in the camp on January 6." (...) "At the time UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called the IDF attack "outrageous" and demanded an investigation.
But on Tuesday, the UN's Office for Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) slipped a "clarification" notice on the head of its weekly field report from Gaza. It noted that its January 6 field report had stated that an IDF shell hit outside the school, causing fatalities. Its January 7 field report, however, stated that the shell hit the school. "The humanitarian coordinator would like to clarify that the shelling, and all of the fatalities, took place outside rather than inside the school," the original field report stated. It was publicized in the aftermath of a Toronto Globe and Mail article that reported that the IDF had not attacked the school. " (...) "...defense officials said it was not certain that the number of casualties reported by the UN, 43, was accurate and that Military Intelligence had noticed Hamas attempts to cover up the identity of those killed in the strike. "We know of at least three terrorists among the dead," one official said. "It is clear that there were more people killed but Hamas has been covering up their identities." Source: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233304687916&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull |
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