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Ok so we all know or heard of the Big Bang, and the scientest(or whatever) that studied it have most parts right except for a few that i pulled out.Here they Are....
1)The Earth was created, yes.Where do we come from?Apes,no.Just because the Earth was "created" from a Bang dosent mean lifeform was, thats a whole enitire different story.If we come from Apes then where do they come from along with all other animals.My beliefe is from God.
2)Why are there Nine different planets, along with thousands galaxys, stars, and more?From the forces that created the universe(which you can find on google), there would not be enough force to create two of our galaxys.So 1,000,000 galaxies?, i think not.
3)Water.If the galaxy "created" the Earth, it would have generated half the water we have here, and much less we have SALT WATER.The galaxy would have generated regular water, once again... God.
I hope you see my point, any comments or conclusions?Please post.
This is a really weird post. You should play Eve Online and be happy with the universe.
Luck.
| Kyohtee wrote: | Ok so we all know or heard of the Big Bang, and the scientest(or whatever) that studied it have most parts right except for a few that i pulled out.Here they Are....
1)The Earth was created, yes.Where do we come from?Apes,no.Just because the Earth was "created" from a Bang dosent mean lifeform was, thats a whole enitire different story.If we come from Apes then where do they come from along with all other animals.My beliefe is from God. |
Well first off... the big bang theory and the origin of life are completely different subjects. For the origin of life, study "abiogenesis." Also, we DID come from apes (there is no "if" in that). I assume you came from another human being, you mother.... am I correct? Well human beings ARE apes (along with chimps, gorillas, orangutans, gibbons) so, by definition, we did come from apes. Where do they come from along with all other animals? Well we all essentially came from single cell prokaryotes. Essentially, everything came from nucleic acids. Bringing God into the equation doesn't actually help solve any questions or problems. It just makes the situation more complicated than it has to be and is quite silly.
| Quote: |
2)Why are there Nine different planets, along with thousands galaxys, stars, and more?From the forces that created the universe(which you can find on google), there would not be enough force to create two of our galaxys.So 1,000,000 galaxies?, i think not.
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Why do you think not? That just shows a clear misunderstanding of science. I don't have to bother debunking that statement because you sort of did it yourself... "Why are there Nine different planets, along with thousands galaxys, stars, and more?" If there is a god (which I extremely highly doubt), then he's incredibly wasteful... he created a bunch of extra nonsense that human beings really don't need... he must be one pretty crappy engineer.
| Quote: |
3)Water.If the galaxy "created" the Earth, it would have generated half the water we have here, and much less we have SALT WATER.The galaxy would have generated regular water, once again... God.
|
Failure. I hate it when Creationists try to use numbers... It would have created half the water? That's completely wrong and to top that off, you made one huge claim without a shred of evidence. Try it again. Also, we have salt water because salt is in the oceans. Salt is an ionic bond that dissolved easily in water. "Salt water" isn't formed the way you're thinking of... water is formed and then you can put salt in... also that seems to give evidence against a Creator. We can't drink salt water, so why didn't he create freshwater oceans for us?
Wow, I love how Creationists tend to think they know everything about the creation of the world etc and think they are actually right.
Good thing that there are people like "Afaceinthematrix" who can save us from their stupidity, good job man <3 ^.^
| Afaceinthematrix wrote: |
Well first off... the big bang theory and the origin of life are completely different subjects. For the origin of life, study "abiogenesis." Also, we DID come from apes (there is no "if" in that). I assume you came from another human being, you mother.... am I correct? Well human beings ARE apes (along with chimps, gorillas, orangutans, gibbons) so, by definition, we did come from apes. Where do they come from along with all other animals? Well we all essentially came from single cell prokaryotes. Essentially, everything came from nucleic acids. Bringing God into the equation doesn't actually help solve any questions or problems. It just makes the situation more complicated than it has to be and is quite silly.
|
Well it actually helps. The theory of the creation of life as believed by science relies (AFAIK) to the thin probability that C, U, A, and G can somehow intermingle each other in a lipid bilayer sphere (which somehow existed near the RNA). It would make the same (and probably better) sense that a supreme being actually mixed those parts intentionally to speed up things.
| Quote: |
... If there is a god (which I extremely highly doubt), then he's incredibly wasteful... he created a bunch of extra nonsense that human beings really don't need... he must be one pretty crappy engineer.
...
... also that seems to give evidence against a Creator. We can't drink salt water, so why didn't he create freshwater oceans for us? |
How do you feel about a parent that gives everything their children want? It's the same connection as God and us. If God creates a world so easy for us to live then we will quickly become complacent, spoiled, wilt and die. Likewise, He gives us a world so vast to explore and wonder about the greatness of the world.
Also you seem to think that God only creates the world for humans. How about other species (which as believed by Buddhists have the same right of living as ours)? A lot of fish depends on salt water to live. Extraterrestrial intelligences, if there are any, depends on their planet to live.
| Kyohtee wrote: | | Ok so we all know or heard of the Big Bang, and the scientest(or whatever) that studied it have most parts right except for a few that i pulled out.Here they Are.... |
oooh this should be interesrting..
| Kyohtee wrote: | | 1)The Earth was created, yes. |
After 4 words you fail the big bang "created" matter after that naturalistic prosecces took over. It took a while for the birth of our little planet earth took place.
big bang was about 13,7 billion years ago.
earth was formed 4,54 years ago
| Kyohtee wrote: | | Where do we come from?Apes,no. |
Indeed we do not come from Apes some primates yes but not apes.
| Kyohtee wrote: | | Just because the Earth was "created" from a Bang dosent mean lifeform was, thats a whole enitire different story. |
Wel the earth wasn't created from a bang so life wasn't either as far as we know. But for the origin of life, one magical word: Abiogenesis
After that a few million years of evolution and then... voila humans!
| Kyohtee wrote: | | If we come from Apes then where do they come from along with all other animals. My beliefe is from God. |
As said abiogenesis and evolution, and on the contrary to the belief thata magical pixy in the sky poofed everything into existance (wich has no shred of proof). Evolution, abiogenesis, and the big bang have supporting evidence thats why they are scientific theories.
| Kyohtee wrote: |
2)Why are there Nine different planets, along with thousands galaxys, stars, and more? |
Natural formation of:
Stars
Solar systems
Galaxy
| Kyohtee wrote: | | From the forces that created the universe(which you can find on google), there would not be enough force to create two of our galaxys.So 1,000,000 galaxies?, i think not. |
If you don't so it doesn't matter the proof points to it, so why do you doubt it. You gladly believe in some allpowerfull invisible dude in the sky but a big bang is to big to believe in? Heh, the irony, the irony.
| Kyohtee wrote: | | 3)Water.If the galaxy "created" the Earth, it would have generated half the water we have here, |
what do you mean not enough water in the universe heh..
The most commen atom is hydrogen (H)
The second most commen is helium (He)
The the third most commen is oxygen (O)
Helium doesn't bond with other atoms
Hydrogen does and Oxygen does on og the most commen Moleculen H2O or just plain WATER
| Kyohtee wrote: | | and much less we have SALT WATER.The galaxy would have generated regular water, once again... God. |
Yes we have salt water but plenty of clean water to because of the water cycle I don't really get this sentence. If you mean that the big bang didn't created salt water is because you can't make salt water from H2O. If you get salt and put it in water you get salt water.
| Kyohtee wrote: | | I hope you see my point, any comments or conclusions?Please post. |
No I don't its just full of creationist propaganda. Those are not arguments that will persuade some who knows anything about the subject and well he knows some terms but that's it, read a book or two on the subjects or take some lessons.
| Quote: |
3)Water.If the galaxy "created" the Earth, it would have generated half the water we have here, and much less we have SALT WATER.The galaxy would have generated regular water, once again... God.
|
| Quote: |
Failure. I hate it when Creationists try to use numbers... It would have created half the water? That's completely wrong and to top that off, you made one huge claim without a shred of evidence. Try it again. Also, we have salt water because salt is in the oceans. Salt is an ionic bond that dissolved easily in water. "Salt water" isn't formed the way you're thinking of... water is formed and then you can put salt in... also that seems to give evidence against a Creator. We can't drink salt water, so why didn't he create freshwater oceans for us? |
No.Many species rely on Salt Water.I know you cant just pour salt into the water and make it Salt Water.Maybey we CAN'T DRINK the water but where do we get ALOT of our food from?Fish,sharks etc.That explains the point why God also made regular Water that is Drinkable.So maybe one day we will run out of food from land, such as chicken,deer etc. and will resort to all the SeaFood, which might be why he Created our Planet with 68% SALT water.This proves as evidence against your point?
| leontius wrote: |
Well it actually helps. The theory of the creation of life as believed by science relies (AFAIK) to the thin probability that C, U, A, and G can somehow intermingle each other in a lipid bilayer sphere (which somehow existed near the RNA). It would make the same (and probably better) sense that a supreme being actually mixed those parts intentionally to speed up things.
|
I would disagree that it makes better sense if there was a god. All that does is make things infinitely more complicated. What many people fail to realize is that the universe is huge. As far as we know, there is only life here on Earth (life hasn't been found yet anywhere else).... yet there is this huge universe. To me it seems like that denies a creator because that is extremely ineffecient... Yes it is hard for life to be formed... so why do you think it was only formed in one place (the place where it is best suited for)? Also, we're talking about billions of years here. A lot can happen in billion years....
| Quote: |
How do you feel about a parent that gives everything their children want? It's the same connection as God and us. If God creates a world so easy for us to live then we will quickly become complacent, spoiled, wilt and die. Likewise, He gives us a world so vast to explore and wonder about the greatness of the world.
Also you seem to think that God only creates the world for humans. How about other species (which as believed by Buddhists have the same right of living as ours)? A lot of fish depends on salt water to live. Extraterrestrial intelligences, if there are any, depends on their planet to live. |
Oh yes, God wants to make things hard for us! Well too bad he's not an equal opportunist jerk. Oh let me put some people in places with substantial resources while screwing over some of my human beings by putting them in worse places! And yes I do believe that the God that Christians worship created the world for us because it says so in their bible (which I've read).
| Kyohtee wrote: | | ]No.Many species rely on Salt Water.I know you cant just pour salt into the water and make it Salt Water.Maybey we CAN'T DRINK the water but where do we get ALOT of our food from?Fish,sharks etc.That explains the point why God also made regular Water that is Drinkable.So maybe one day we will run out of food from land, such as chicken,deer etc. and will resort to all the SeaFood, which might be why he Created our Planet with 68% SALT water.This proves as evidence against your point? |
No... it doesn't prove as evidence against my point. It just makes your point sound silly. Yes fish and sharks (food) lives in salt water. But food lives in freshwater also. So if God is so powerful, how come he didn't make fresh water oceans with fish adapted to live in freshwater so that we can eat them and drink the water? Wow! What a profound idea? Then we wouldn't have to waste 97%-98% (I have no clue where you got 68% from) of our water resource as undrinkable (well we can drink it, but it takes a lot of energy to purify it and take the salt out). So, according to your logic, God created species that rely on a resource that is completely useless for his ultimate Creation, humans. That again shows that God is a pretty crappy engineer. Also.... showing even more of his "ingenious" engineering, can you please explain to me why human beings have tail bones, or why any animal has vestigial structures?
| leontius wrote: | | Afaceinthematrix wrote: |
Well first off... the big bang theory and the origin of life are completely different subjects. For the origin of life, study "abiogenesis." Also, we DID come from apes (there is no "if" in that). I assume you came from another human being, you mother.... am I correct? Well human beings ARE apes (along with chimps, gorillas, orangutans, gibbons) so, by definition, we did come from apes. Where do they come from along with all other animals? Well we all essentially came from single cell prokaryotes. Essentially, everything came from nucleic acids. Bringing God into the equation doesn't actually help solve any questions or problems. It just makes the situation more complicated than it has to be and is quite silly.
|
Well it actually helps. The theory of the creation of life as believed by science relies (AFAIK) to the thin probability that C, U, A, and G can somehow intermingle each other in a lipid bilayer sphere (which somehow existed near the RNA). It would make the same (and probably better) sense that a supreme being actually mixed those parts intentionally to speed up things. |
What are: C, U, A, and G?
How small is that chance?
If you multiply that chance times a few billion years and the amount of areas it could happen.
What do you get?
A supreme being doesn't solve it, question: where does he come from? Un-answereble, and wel no evidence points to any supreme being in the first place so why take this dead end.
| leontius wrote: | | Quote: |
... If there is a god (which I extremely highly doubt), then he's incredibly wasteful... he created a bunch of extra nonsense that human beings really don't need... he must be one pretty crappy engineer.
...
... also that seems to give evidence against a Creator. We can't drink salt water, so why didn't he create freshwater oceans for us? |
How do you feel about a parent that gives everything their children want? It's the same connection as God and us. If God creates a world so easy for us to live then we will quickly become complacent, spoiled, wilt and die. Likewise, He gives us a world so vast to explore and wonder about the greatness of the world. |
No it's not the same connection if the oceans weren't salty life wouldn't become a lot easier for us.
We still need to farm or gather etc. life wouldn't be easy. And you could still get killed by wild animals. And that is not a nice parent-child relation i would want with god, many people die randomly because of natural disasters, who is creating or at least resposible for those disasters? God seriously... couldn't he invent a better earth?
| leontius wrote: | | Also you seem to think that God only creates the world for humans. |
That's what a LOT of creationists say..
| leontius wrote: | | How about other species (which as believed by Buddhists have the same right of living as ours)? A lot of fish depends on salt water to live. Extraterrestrial intelligences, if there are any, depends on their planet to live. |
Yes a lot of fish depend on salt water but why did god made them dependent on salt water in the first place?
| Klaw 2 wrote: | | What are: C, U, A, and G? |
The four main bases that make up RNA. Cytosine, Uracil, Adenine, and Guanine.
| liljp617 wrote: | | Klaw 2 wrote: | | What are: C, U, A, and G? |
The four main bases that make up RNA. Cytosine, Uracil, Adenine, and Guanine. |
Ah i see, lol we would rather use Cyt, Ura, Ade and Gua for short here just letters is confusing :/ . Better yet, use full names.
| Afaceinthematrix wrote: | | leontius wrote: |
Well it actually helps. The theory of the creation of life as believed by science relies (AFAIK) to the thin probability that C, U, A, and G can somehow intermingle each other in a lipid bilayer sphere (which somehow existed near the RNA). It would make the same (and probably better) sense that a supreme being actually mixed those parts intentionally to speed up things.
|
I would disagree that it makes better sense if there was a god. All that does is make things infinitely more complicated. What many people fail to realize is that the universe is huge. As far as we know, there is only life here on Earth (life hasn't been found yet anywhere else).... yet there is this huge universe. To me it seems like that denies a creator because that is extremely ineffecient... Yes it is hard for life to be formed... so why do you think it was only formed in one place (the place where it is best suited for)? Also, we're talking about billions of years here. A lot can happen in billion years....
| Quote: |
How do you feel about a parent that gives everything their children want? It's the same connection as God and us. If God creates a world so easy for us to live then we will quickly become complacent, spoiled, wilt and die. Likewise, He gives us a world so vast to explore and wonder about the greatness of the world.
Also you seem to think that God only creates the world for humans. How about other species (which as believed by Buddhists have the same right of living as ours)? A lot of fish depends on salt water to live. Extraterrestrial intelligences, if there are any, depends on their planet to live. |
Oh yes, God wants to make things hard for us! Well too bad he's not an equal opportunist jerk. Oh let me put some people in places with substantial resources while screwing over some of my human beings by putting them in worse places! And yes I do believe that the God that Christians worship created the world for us because it says so in their bible (which I've read).
| Kyohtee wrote: | | ]No.Many species rely on Salt Water.I know you cant just pour salt into the water and make it Salt Water.Maybey we CAN'T DRINK the water but where do we get ALOT of our food from?Fish,sharks etc.That explains the point why God also made regular Water that is Drinkable.So maybe one day we will run out of food from land, such as chicken,deer etc. and will resort to all the SeaFood, which might be why he Created our Planet with 68% SALT water.This proves as evidence against your point? |
No... it doesn't prove as evidence against my point. It just makes your point sound silly. Yes fish and sharks (food) lives in salt water. But food lives in freshwater also. So if God is so powerful, how come he didn't make fresh water oceans with fish adapted to live in freshwater so that we can eat them and drink the water? Wow! What a profound idea? Then we wouldn't have to waste 97%-98% (I have no clue where you got 68% from) of our water resource as undrinkable (well we can drink it, but it takes a lot of energy to purify it and take the salt out). So, according to your logic, God created species that rely on a resource that is completely useless for his ultimate Creation, humans. That again shows that God is a pretty crappy engineer. Also.... showing even more of his "ingenious" engineering, can you please explain to me why human beings have tail bones, or why any animal has vestigial structures? |
To be honest your making alot of spelling errors along with grammar mistakes,but anyways my point you don't see is God made 7 Deadly sins
If you say you have read the bible you would no this.One of them is something like this..If you have to much pride for yourself to become so greedy/spoiled and love yourself to much you will be punished and severley injured or die.So if he made the world so easy to understand,freshwater instead of salt water, etc. wouldn't that break the rule?Yes.
| Quote: | Ok so we all know or heard of the Big Bang, and the scientest(or whatever) that studied it have most parts right except for a few that i pulled out.Here they Are....
|
ok i am listening
| Quote: | | 1)The Earth was created, yes.Where do we come from?Apes,no.Just because the Earth was "created" from a Bang dosent mean lifeform was, thats a whole enitire different story.If we come from Apes then where do they come from along with all other animals.My beliefe is from God. |
evolution, google or wikipedia it...
| Quote: | | 2)Why are there Nine different planets, along with thousands galaxy's, stars, and more?From the forces that created the universe(which you can find on google), there would not be enough force to create two of our galaxy's.So 1,000,000 galaxies?, i think not. |
i agree the universe is stupid and god makes sense
| Quote: |
3)Water.If the galaxy "created" the Earth, it would have generated half the water we have here, and much less we have SALT WATER.The galaxy would have generated regular water, once again... God. |
the galaxy made our water? wait is the galaxy god?
| Quote: | | I hope you see my point, any comments or conclusions?Please post |
nope sorry i didn't and i know i wasn't answering your questions but thats because you are making silly comments.
honestly EVERYTHING that man has made is because of science - the very same thing you are arguing against so if science is wrong (which is what i assume you are saying) then everything man has created is wrong..
so lets all have a sit in a volcano and smoke poisonous fumes whilst drinking car battery acid cause if science is wrong it shouldn't hurt us...
hurray for god.
Oh, what the hell. I wasn't going to bother with this, since it is so obviously silly, but there has been no complete rebuttal (despite the salient and accurate contributions of some posters).
Here goes: | Kyohtee wrote: | Ok so we all know or heard of the Big Bang, and the scientest(or whatever) that studied it have most parts right except for a few that i pulled out.Here they Are....
1)The Earth was created, yes.Where do we come from?Apes,no.Just because the Earth was "created" from a Bang dosent mean lifeform was, thats a whole enitire different story.If we come from Apes then where do they come from along with all other animals.My beliefe is from God. |
Creationist fallacy number 1 - conflate 'creation', evolution and abiogenesis. A familiar ploy, but hardly original. Yes, we do come from a common primate ancestor - the evidence for this is overwhelming. The earth was not 'created' - it came about because of various physical processes (such as accretion) which are fairly well understood. Apes come from previous common ancestor species and, in the end, all life comes from an original biological species. We could argue about whether life arose once, or many times. We could argue about whether there is a strict cut-off point between organic and inorganic replication. We could argue about a lot of things, but there is no argument about evolution as a general concept - it is what happened, deal with it.
As for abiogenesis itself - I would suggest that you read Dennett ('Darwin's Dangeous Idea') or Dawkins ('The Selfish Gene') for inspiration. Suffice it to say that no, we don't know how life arose and yes, there are several plausible scenarios, none of which involve a sky fairy. | Quote: | | 2)Why are there Nine different planets, along with thousands galaxys, stars, and more?From the forces that created the universe(which you can find on google), there would not be enough force to create two of our galaxys.So 1,000,000 galaxies?, i think not. |
This is because you haven't got the first clue what you are talking about. There are not thousands of galaxies - there are billions. There are not thousands of stars - there are an estimated 200 billion in just our own Milky Way galaxy. There are not 1,000,000 galaxies - the best current estimate is around 125 billion. What is mysterious about 9 planets? Are you suggesting that the number 9 has some mystical significance? In that case you might like to consider the definition of a planet and whether you wish to include Pluto or not...it is fairly arbitrary. | Quote: | | 3)Water.If the galaxy "created" the Earth, it would have generated half the water we have here, and much less we have SALT WATER.The galaxy would have generated regular water, once again... God. |
The galaxy did not 'create' the earth. The solar system formed as the result of a collapsed gas cloud (probably the result of a nearby supernova). The origin of water on earth is still the subject of debate - there are several theories. The most promising (to my mind) is that the early bombardment of earth by cometary and asteroid material introduced most of the water we see today.
Salt water comes from the minerals that naturally occur on earth - particularly calcium, sodium and potassium. These minerals are dissolved in fresh water to form saline water that we observe in the oceans. There is nothing particularly mysterious about this.
| Kyohtee wrote: | To be honest your making alot of spelling errors along with grammar mistakes,but anyways my point you don't see is God made 7 Deadly sins
If you say you have read the bible you would no this.One of them is something like this..If you have to much pride for yourself to become so greedy/spoiled and love yourself to much you will be punished and severley injured or die.So if he made the world so easy to understand,freshwater instead of salt water, etc. wouldn't that break the rule?Yes. |
I'm sorry that I was writing that in a hurry early in the morning. Here, why I don't help you out?
To be honest you're making a lot of spelling errors along with grammar mistakes, but anyways, my point that you don't see is that God made 7 Deadly sins.
If you say you have read the bible you would know this. (That is a bogus claim. If I "say" I have read the Bible, that doesn't mean I would know this. It would just mean that I claim to have read the Bible - which I have. What you should have said is, "If you really have read the Bible, then you would know that God made 7 Deadly sins. Also, I have read the Bible and you bringing up the 7 Deadly sins has absolutely nothing to do with this debate.) One of them is something like this: If you have too much pride for yourself to become so greedy/spoiled and love yourself too much you will be punished and severely injured or die. So if he made the world so easy to understand (freshwater instead of salt water, etc.), wouldn't that break the rule? Yes.
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First off, if you're going to nit-pick at my grammar than you had better make sure your grammar is spotless. Got that?
Also... I have a question for you? Why don't you step up and actually debate the topic that you brought up, rather than mumbling a bunch of incoherent ideas and then just pestering people about their grammar errors (which aren't even a big deal; I don't feel going through my original post to find any grammar errors, but I ensure you that are a result of rapid typing as I have obviously just proven that I know grammar rules) when they call you out for nonsense?
When I responded to what you said, instead of just nit-picking, you should have responded to what I actually said. Failing to do so shows that you really have no idea about the subject and further proves your ignorance.
Edit:
I just read your post Bikerman and had a response to it that I thought I'd add onto this original post.
| Bikerman wrote: | | Oh, what the hell. I wasn't going to bother with this, since it is so obviously silly, but there has been no complete rebuttal (despite the salient and accurate contributions of some posters). |
When I first read that, I was thinking, "What? Didn't my post go through all the sections and completely rebuttal his argument?" Then I read your entire post and realized how much better you did. Nice job. I guess experience/knowledge favors you.
P.S. Kyohtee, can you please point out to me my grammar errors? I just went through and reread both of my posts and I must admit, that I failed to find any major errors. I did find a couple of errors that were obviously typos. My spelling, however, seemed alright. But maybe the "Grammar God" can help me out because your skills are so profound!
This is the truth: YAHWEH is living without time and space, he is eternal.
YAHSHUA is the son of YAHWEH, YAHSHUA appears from the uncreated world througth a big explosion and with him the universe start to exist:
YAHSHUA come from the eternity to the time and space: OLAM, the universe.
YAHSHUA is the creator.
| tzabaot wrote: | This is the truth: YAHWEH is living without time and space, he is eternal.
YAHSHUA is the son of YAHWEH, YAHSHUA appears from the uncreated world througth a big explosion and with him the universe start to exist:
YAHSHUA come from the eternity to the time and space: OLAM, the universe.
YAHSHUA is the creator. |
OK! This is one of the craziest discussions in a long while. Yet am learning at a great curve here? Thanks to Chris, liljp617, Afaceinthematrix, Klaw 2, and all the other expert contributors.
Tzabaot, who are Yahweh and Yahshua? Will be grateful if you could explain from which religion this comes from so I can look it up in Wikipedia. From which language are the names Yahweh and Yahshua?
To my understanding, Yahweh is the actual name of the god Christianity, Judaism, and Islam worship. I would think Yahshua refers to Jesus.
I could be 100% wrong, I've never looked it up as it doesn't really interest me that much.
| liljp617 wrote: | To my understanding, Yahweh is the actual name of the god Christianity, Judaism, and Islam worship. I would think Yahshua refers to Jesus.
I could be 100% wrong, I've never looked it up as it doesn't really interest me that much. |
Thanks liljp617  , I looked it up in Wikipedia, but could not make head or tail out of it, so thought tzabaot could explain it better.
*** people chill on the grammar crap...i have no more argument on this but i have finall(idc if i mispelled -.-)little post.I will continue reading this but i will only post under sincere(idc bout that either)concern.All of you that have been mis claming on on God...Klaw ,inflipj whatever,the mod guy,and idk who else, are gonna buurrrnnn in hell..and i feel sorry for you. 
[MOD - Offensive remark removed. I'll not bother editing the gibberish - Bikerman]
| Kyohtee wrote: | *** people chill on the grammar crap...i have no more argument on this but i have finall(idc if i mispelled -.-)little post.I will continue reading this but i will only post under sincere(idc bout that either)concern.All of you that have been mis claming on on God...Klaw ,inflipj whatever,the mod guy,and idk who else, are gonna buurrrnnn in hell..and i feel sorry for you.
[MOD - Offensive remark removed. I'll not bother editing the gibberish - Bikerman] |
Thanks for your concern.
I can't burn in hell anyway. "Hell" means "eternal nothingness." There is no fire in a location of "eternal nothingness."
oh one more funny thread !
not many things to add as as usually Bikerman made good posting there.
I only think that if God exists he is probably very ashamed of many people that are writing or acting on his name.
Heh I was right at the end the only thing Christians can say that we gonna burn in Hell  . We don't believe in your religion, it doesn't frighten us so stop doing it ^_^
| liljp617 wrote: | | I can't burn in hell anyway. "Hell" means "eternal nothingness." There is no fire in a location of "eternal nothingness." |
(That depends on whose definition of "Hell" you subscribe to. The actual Biblical definition is not "eternal nothingness", and does indeed include burning.)
Bible schmible!
First of all, I ask you to recognise what you're doing: you're explaining away that which you don't understand (and to be fair, nobody has a complete grasp of) by asserting "God did it" as the catch all answer. As if to say, "right that's it, we can now all go home folks, show's over".
It's not as simple as that and never should be.
Rather than try to answer your questions in a scientific sense, which frankly has been done to death, I'll simply show you how your assertions are wrong and why more and more people are seeking better ones.
The universe has always existed in some form or another. If you think about this, you believe this already. As you believe that God has always existed. The universe is a manifestation of God's power. So the universe existed as a part of his power.
So I say that the universe has always existed. You're saying that the universe + God have always existed. You're actually compounding the issue by adding an enormously powerful 'perfect' being to the equation that has always been perfect. That this perfect being magicked the universe into being.
How does that even make sense unto itself? Think about it. Perfection defies creation. If God were perfect then there would be no need for the universe to exist. Why would God have reached a point at which he felt the need to do such a thing? This act also conflicts with the concept of God being eternal.
You then go on to claim that there isn't enough energy in the universe to cause the Big Bang. That's obviously wrong unto itself and shows a distinct lack of understanding. If a single atom can start a chain reaction that would result in a nuclear explosion then I really don't need to draw you a picture of what the stupidly large number of atoms in the universe would be capable of. But like I said, I'm not about to address this that way.
You're saying that "God did it". You do see what you're doing, don't you? You're saying that the power necessary to create the universe exists. You're acknowledging that as a fact. Just like you acknowledge that the universe has always existed in some form. You're just using "God" rather than looking at the facts. As "God" makes it all make sense (even though God itself is completely inexplicable, but hey).
In conclusion, I can only ask that you educate yourself on these matters. I think you'll find things make a lot more sense if you do.
| Indi wrote: | | liljp617 wrote: | | I can't burn in hell anyway. "Hell" means "eternal nothingness." There is no fire in a location of "eternal nothingness." |
(That depends on whose definition of "Hell" you subscribe to. The actual Biblical definition is not "eternal nothingness", and does indeed include burning.) |
Actually, the bible describes Hell as being removed from the light of God. The only reference to fire and all that jazz was one time where Jesus compared Hell to the fires in the trash dump at Gehenna.
| Xanatos wrote: | | Indi wrote: | | liljp617 wrote: | | I can't burn in hell anyway. "Hell" means "eternal nothingness." There is no fire in a location of "eternal nothingness." |
(That depends on whose definition of "Hell" you subscribe to. The actual Biblical definition is not "eternal nothingness", and does indeed include burning.) |
Actually, the bible describes Hell as being removed from the light of God. The only reference to fire and all that jazz was one time where Jesus compared Hell to the fires in the trash dump at Gehenna. |
I'm pretty sure you'll find references to a 'lake of fire' and 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' in there as well, among other things.
| ocalhoun wrote: | | Xanatos wrote: | | Indi wrote: | | liljp617 wrote: | | I can't burn in hell anyway. "Hell" means "eternal nothingness." There is no fire in a location of "eternal nothingness." |
(That depends on whose definition of "Hell" you subscribe to. The actual Biblical definition is not "eternal nothingness", and does indeed include burning.) |
Actually, the bible describes Hell as being removed from the light of God. The only reference to fire and all that jazz was one time where Jesus compared Hell to the fires in the trash dump at Gehenna. |
I'm pretty sure you'll find references to a 'lake of fire' and 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' in there as well, among other things. |
Show me where someone who would have any idea what it is like in hell says that and I will agree that hell is full of fire and brimstone.
| Xanatos wrote: | | ocalhoun wrote: | | Xanatos wrote: | | Indi wrote: | | liljp617 wrote: | | I can't burn in hell anyway. "Hell" means "eternal nothingness." There is no fire in a location of "eternal nothingness." |
(That depends on whose definition of "Hell" you subscribe to. The actual Biblical definition is not "eternal nothingness", and does indeed include burning.) |
Actually, the bible describes Hell as being removed from the light of God. The only reference to fire and all that jazz was one time where Jesus compared Hell to the fires in the trash dump at Gehenna. |
I'm pretty sure you'll find references to a 'lake of fire' and 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' in there as well, among other things. |
Show me where someone who would have any idea what it is like in hell says that and I will agree that hell is full of fire and brimstone. |
Try:
Matthew 14:42
Matthew 25:41
Mark 9:43-48
Luke 16:24
Revelation 20:13-15
and so on...
| Bikerman wrote: | | Xanatos wrote: | | ocalhoun wrote: | | Xanatos wrote: | | Indi wrote: | | liljp617 wrote: | | I can't burn in hell anyway. "Hell" means "eternal nothingness." There is no fire in a location of "eternal nothingness." |
(That depends on whose definition of "Hell" you subscribe to. The actual Biblical definition is not "eternal nothingness", and does indeed include burning.) |
Actually, the bible describes Hell as being removed from the light of God. The only reference to fire and all that jazz was one time where Jesus compared Hell to the fires in the trash dump at Gehenna. |
I'm pretty sure you'll find references to a 'lake of fire' and 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' in there as well, among other things. |
Show me where someone who would have any idea what it is like in hell says that and I will agree that hell is full of fire and brimstone. |
Why is it that so-called Christians don't even read their own books ?
Try:
Matthew 14:42
Matthew 25:41
Mark 9:43-48
Luke 16:24
Revelation 20:13-15
and so on... |
1. I am not a Christian at all. Atheist.
2. As usual I seem to have forgotten to mention that I was referring to the translations of the word Sheol rather than Hadees or Sheol-Hadees. However, you are correct in that fire is mentioned several times in the bible and my previous post should have been worded much differently. But that is what I get for posting half asleep.
I did not mean to imply you were a Christian - which is why I changed my previous posting after reading it back.
Haha... I'm the one who made a stupid post with bad assertions. Besides arguing about hell can make one appear to be christian.
Think about this....you are probably not a christisan because your parents aren't.(and if you say that my parents are christians but im not and blah blah blah..i know you're liying,so don't embarass yourself.Note:this is not my topic,do not post about what i just previously said.)So if your parents were christians then guess what you would more than likely be?:A Christian.So i am not really saying your parents are messed up but at the same time i am..understand?(note:Don't call me stupid for that -.-.)Oh well..there is a little poem i remebered too:
A bat in my hands is a Single.A Bat in babe Ruthes hands is a Homer.It depends on whos hands it's in.
A football in My hands is 30 yards.A Football in Elway's hands is 90 yards.It depends who's hands it's in.
Nails in my hand is a doghouse or Bird House...Nails in Jesus's hands is my life and yours.You see,it depends whos hands it's in...
By the way..this is getting VERY off topic.We need to get back on the main road before some other mod comes along and locks it or does whatever he/she can do.
| Kyohtee wrote: | Think about this....you are probably not a christisan because your parents aren't.(and if you say that my parents are christians but im not and blah blah blah..i know you're liying,so don't embarass yourself.Note:this is not my topic,do not post about what i just previously said.)So if your parents were christians then guess what you would more than likely be?:A Christian.So i am not really saying your parents are messed up but at the same time i am..understand?(note:Don't call me stupid for that -.-.)Oh well..there is a little poem i remebered too:
A bat in my hands is a Single.A Bat in babe Ruthes hands is a Homer.It depends on whos hands it's in.
A football in My hands is 30 yards.A Football in Elway's hands is 90 yards.It depends who's hands it's in.
Nails in my hand is a doghouse or Bird House...Nails in Jesus's hands is my life and yours.You see,it depends whos hands it's in... |
My mother is quite a devout Catholic. My father believes, but he doesn't go out of his way to go to church and all the other jazz. I am not Catholic, I am not a "person of faith" in any religious or spiritual sense.
I guess I'm a liar though, because I have some significant reason to lie about the beliefs of my parents. -.- No offense, but your logic is amazingly terrible and it's really annoying. It's kind of odd you tell people not to embarrass themselves....
Of course, again I ask, how old are you?
| Kyohtee wrote: | | Think about this....you are probably not a christisan because your parents aren't.(and if you say that my parents are christians but im not and blah blah blah..i know you're liying,so don't embarass yourself. |
LoL! Hilarious! Allow me to share some of my family history with you so that I can tell you how completely stupid that argument was. I have my grandfather. He spent years of his life living in various parts of Africa doing Christian missionary work. After he came back to the United States, he became a Pastor in various churches in the heart of the U.S. Bible Belt (Oklahoma). He also runs a charity that gives a lot of help to various places in Africa. I then have my grandparents on my father's side. My grandmother was religiously trained in a bible college yet never became a pastor because women used to not be accepted in the ministry. My grandfather (not the one who lived in Africa) was an elder in the church.
I then have my immediate family. My sister and her husband both graduated college from Hope International University (a Christian college in Southern California) and both work for a church. Her husband is a pastor and she's a youth ministry assistant (or some crap like that).
Out of my entire family (including my siblings, parents, grandparents, great grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, etc.) they are nothing but Christians. In my entire family, there exists exactly one atheist - that is ME!
So I really don't understand where the hell you're coming from. I guaran-damn-tee that I am not lying. My parents are Christian, yet I am not a Christian. I also do not see how I, or liljp617, are embarrassing ourselves. Would you care to elaborate?
| Kyohtee wrote: | | Think about this....you are probably not a christisan because your parents aren't.(and if you say that my parents are christians but im not and blah blah blah..i know you're liying,so don't embarass yourself.Note:this is not my topic,do not post about what i just previously said.)So if your parents were christians then guess what you would more than likely be?:A Christian.So i am not really saying your parents are messed up but at the same time i am..understand?(note:Don't call me stupid for that |
My grandparents are very active in the church community. I grew up going with my family to church where we all personally knew the pastors family. I believe I make three testimonies against your belief now.
| Afaceinthematrix wrote: | | So I really don't understand where the hell you're coming from. I guaran-damn-tee that I am not lying. My parents are Christian, yet I am not a Christian. I also do not see how I, or liljp617, are embarrassing ourselves. Would you care to elaborate? |
In support of this, I found the children of pastors where I grew up, pastors who were generally narrow minded in the sense that they preached for children not to go dancing, listen to rock music, etc all of that being from the devil, that the children of those pastors actually went totally in revolt, more so than any of the other children attending the sermons. I had a friend like that. He did crazy things, smoked at a much earlier age than any of the other kids, did all kinds of pranks, fun ones but of the dangerous "borderline expel" variety. I enjoyed him very much as he had a tremendous sense of humour. His sister was equally "out of it", became a pianist. So what I am trying to say is that depending on the father and mother who are christian this may well drive the children away from christianity. Just out of sheer revolt.
| Kyohtee wrote: | | Think about this....you are probably not a christisan because your parents aren't.(and if you say that my parents are christians but im not and blah blah blah..i know you're liying,so don't embarass yourself.Note:this is not my topic,do not post about what i just previously said.)So if your parents were christians then guess what you would more than likely be?:A Christian.So i am not really saying your parents are messed up but at the same time i am..understand?(note:Don't call me stupid for that -.-.) |
You still have much thinking and learning to do, but you're young so it will happen in time.
Here's a quick layout of my personal religious life history.
Both my parents are Christian, more specifically baptist but like most Americans not terribly devout (we rarely went to church). When I was growing up, all the hard questions I asked as a child which couldn't possibly be answer were answered to the effect of 'God and the bible's teachings'. You know, the standard tough kid questions such as "What happens to us when we die?" why certain unexplainable things happen and so on. One specific question I can remember asking was "why are animals afraid of humans?" and that was answered with the story of how Adam and Eve sinned. I believed it all, it was my own mother telling me this.
At a young age I considered myself a devout Christian and would think about God every single day. For sixth grade I went to a private Presbyterian Christian school since the alternative was a really bad middle school. We had bible study, daily prayer and everything. I had a tough time the following years because I always got discriminated against being one of three white kids in a school almost entirely black. I used the idea of God to get me through those times, something which I now view as placebo, but it was effective nonetheless. I used to pray for my dad because he would sometimes use God's name in vain and didn't behave in a way I thought a Christian should.
Finally, at the age of fourteen I stopped believing after many years of thinking and trying to rationalize why things just don't add up when it comes to this religion, asking God for a sign of his existence and prayers left unanswered.
It's ironic; for all the worrying I did about my father in the past, he now works at the same private school I attended, goes to church every Sunday and donates $20 every week to the church.
My mother's religious tendencies haven't change over the years, she's still baptist and the idea that I'm not a believer anymore concerns her.
My younger sister who is now 20 also doesn't believe in God any more. She went to the private Christian school for... must have been at least five years while I only went one year.
So, maybe now you can see Kyohtee that your view wasn't really an accurate representation of reality, though you were partially right that religion is often an inheritance.
Omfg people i said PARENTS not grandparents or sisters or cousins..PARENTS.This basicly applys to those who are to toung to live by themselves(17-).And by the way whoever said that my "logics" are "annoying" can you please share why you bother to post if it's so kiddish and annoying to you?
Im 14.
Thanks that told me everything I needed to know.
| Kyohtee wrote: | | Omfg people i said PARENTS not grandparents or sisters or cousins..PARENTS.This basicly applys to those who are to toung to live by themselves(17-). |
And I stopped believing in God at 14. Your point?
You also didn't specify that it only applied to those 17 and under (not that I think age makes a bit of difference, why would it?). You said:
| Quote: | | Think about this....you are probably not a christisan because your parents aren't.(and if you say that my parents are christians but im not and blah blah blah..i know you're liying,so don't embarass yourself.Note:this is not my topic,do not post about what i just previously said.)So if your parents were christians then guess what you would more than likely be?:A Christian. |
and got four accounts that conflicted with your idea. Don't get mad because you were wrong, learn from the information given to you. Every account mentioned parents in one way or another.
| Kyohtee wrote: | Omfg people i said PARENTS not grandparents or sisters or cousins..PARENTS.This basicly applys to those who are to toung to live by themselves(17-).And by the way whoever said that my "logics" are "annoying" can you please share why you bother to post if it's so kiddish and annoying to you?
Im 14. |
Your logic and post is still incorrect then.
| Kyohtee wrote: | | By the way..this is getting VERY off topic.We need to get back on the main road before some other mod comes along and locks it or does whatever he/she can do. |
Well, the original topic has been dealt with comprehensively in other postings. The global flood is a fiction. Of this there is no reasonable doubt. If you have something to add then please do so.
| Kyohtee wrote: | Omfg people i said PARENTS not grandparents or sisters or cousins..PARENTS.This basicly applys to those who are to toung to live by themselves(17-).And by the way whoever said that my "logics" are "annoying" can you please share why you bother to post if it's so kiddish and annoying to you?
Im 14. |
Well I covered my parents also. I told you that my parents are extremely religious yet I do not believe in God. And I guess that would apply to me. I'm not 17 or younger but I stopped believing in God when I was in that age category.
This thread seems to be going nowhere so I have locked it.
If anyone feels that they wish to add something, or feels strongly that it should be re-opened, then please send me a message and I will consider it.
Bikerman
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