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Official Iraq report:Bush incompetence, Pentagon corruption

 


handfleisch
The epic levels of incompetence + corruption in the Iraq occupation have now been documented in an official report. So besides being an pointless exercise of murder and greed predicated on lies, it officially was also an epic failure by its own standards.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/world/middleeast/14reconstruct.html?_r=1&hp

Official History Spotlights Iraq Rebuilding Blunders
Quote:
BAGHDAD — An unpublished 513-page federal history of the American-led reconstruction of Iraq depicts an effort crippled before the invasion by Pentagon planners who were hostile to the idea of rebuilding a foreign country, and then molded into a $100 billion failure by bureaucratic turf wars, spiraling violence and ignorance of the basic elements of Iraqi society and infrastructure.

The history, the first official account of its kind, is circulating in draft form here and in Washington among a tight circle of technical reviewers, policy experts and senior officials. It also concludes that when the reconstruction began to lag — particularly in the critical area of rebuilding the Iraqi police and army — the Pentagon simply put out inflated measures of progress to cover up the failures.
brokenadvice
That's nothing to throw a shoe at...

But seriously, this is just one big mess. Ideally one US administration with a huge budget would have met with the leaders of each town to see what needed to be done. Once this was done, an architect and leader from the US would plan the specifics of each town with the leader. The workers would be hired by these 3 people. Everybody is then accountable; the workers to the local leaders, the leaders to the agency and the agency to the Iraqi and US citizens. Then again, hindsight is 20/20.
Nick2008
brokenadvice wrote:
That's nothing to throw a shoe at...

But seriously, this is just one big mess. Ideally one US administration with a huge budget would have met with the leaders of each town to see what needed to be done. Once this was done, an architect and leader from the US would plan the specifics of each town with the leader. The workers would be hired by these 3 people. Everybody is then accountable; the workers to the local leaders, the leaders to the agency and the agency to the Iraqi and US citizens. Then again, hindsight is 20/20.


Instead we load up our guns and act like we are the new leaders of Iraq. The president rarely updates us on the war, the last thing I heard was "the surge is working", ehh... what surge Mr. President? Since when does a "surge" bring help to a nation torn apart? Confused

Just a little over a month left of this ridiculous administration, and then hopefully we get something new. (Hopefully! Razz)
deanhills
Well I guess one good thing came out of it. No more Saddam Hussein around. Ironically though he seems to have been the only weapon of mass destruction that was found in the end. At tremendous cost in human lives, including from the US.

Another plus could be a massive learning curve for the military from mistakes that have been made. Some of the learning of what not to do in the Middle East, I think have been applied to Afghanistan. The US certainly connected intimately with the Middle East, and through that managed to shift the war with the terrorists to where they are in the Middle East, instead of fighting shadows in the United States. Military intelligence has to have been improved through this.

From a global power point of view, the United States certainly firmed its position viz the world. Regrettably at a great cost to itself, but it has a very strong position right now versus where it was before it invaded Iraq. From an international point of view.
handfleisch
Nick2008 wrote:

Instead we load up our guns and act like we are the new leaders of Iraq. The president rarely updates us on the war, the last thing I heard was "the surge is working", ehh... what surge Mr. President? Since when does a "surge" bring help to a nation torn apart? Confused

Just a little over a month left of this ridiculous administration, and then hopefully we get something new. (Hopefully! Razz)


Agreed. Let's cross our fingers that we can have some positive progress now.

Though nothing will help the ten of thousands of innocent people who died in Bush's war. Nothing will help their families, their wrecked society.
Moonspider
handfleisch wrote:
The epic levels of incompetence + corruption in the Iraq occupation have now been documented in an official report. So besides being an pointless exercise of murder and greed predicated on lies, it officially was also an epic failure by its own standards.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/world/middleeast/14reconstruct.html?_r=1&hp

Official History Spotlights Iraq Rebuilding Blunders
Quote:
BAGHDAD — An unpublished 513-page federal history of the American-led reconstruction of Iraq depicts an effort crippled before the invasion by Pentagon planners who were hostile to the idea of rebuilding a foreign country, and then molded into a $100 billion failure by bureaucratic turf wars, spiraling violence and ignorance of the basic elements of Iraqi society and infrastructure.

The history, the first official account of its kind, is circulating in draft form here and in Washington among a tight circle of technical reviewers, policy experts and senior officials. It also concludes that when the reconstruction began to lag — particularly in the critical area of rebuilding the Iraqi police and army — the Pentagon simply put out inflated measures of progress to cover up the failures.


Obviously your quote from the first two paragraphs of the article is accurate. However, your characterization of the article in the title of this thread does not match the article. In fact, neither of the words "incompetent" or "corruption" appear in the article.

Furthermore, "incompetence" only appears once in the entire 513 page report (on page 114 as part of a reference's title). And the word "incompetent" appears once on page 141 in a quote of Congresswoman Nita Lowey (D-NY).

As for "corruption" it is mentioned more often (38 times), but usually in terms of anti-corruption measures, fighting Iraqi corruption, corruption in Iraq prior to the invasion, and even the Oil for Food Program before the war. It never characterizes the U.S. effort itself as wrought with corruption, as you insinuate (unless you were speaking of our ineffectiveness in combating corruption in Iraq).

In short, your characterization of the report is yours, not the article's author.

Respectfully,
M
handfleisch
Moonspider wrote:


Obviously your quote from the first two paragraphs of the article is accurate. However, your characterization of the article in the title of this thread does not match the article. In fact, neither of the words "incompetent" or "corruption" appear in the article.

Furthermore, "incompetence" only appears once in the entire 513 page report (on page 114 as part of a reference's title). And the word "incompetent" appears once on page 141 in a quote of Congresswoman Nita Lowey (D-NY).

As for "corruption" it is mentioned more often (38 times), but usually in terms of anti-corruption measures, fighting Iraqi corruption, corruption in Iraq prior to the invasion, and even the Oil for Food Program before the war. It never characterizes the U.S. effort itself as wrought with corruption, as you insinuate (unless you were speaking of our ineffectiveness in combating corruption in Iraq).

In short, your characterization of the report is yours, not the article's author.

Respectfully,
M


Are you joking? The article cites "ignorance of the basic elements of Iraqi society and infrastructure". This can easily be described as "incompetence".

The article also cites lying by the Pentagon as they inflated the number of competent Iraqi security forces, and since this happened repeatedly and served to justify their efforts involving massive military expenditures, can accurately be described as "corruption".
coolclay
Why do the democRats want so hard to see Iraq tumble into oblivion, just to say, "see we were right"? Yes, there were some mistakes made, and maybe they were made by ignorance. I don't think anyone wants to see Iraq crumble except for the liberals.

Iraq is way ahead of where they were before the war. Hussein and his disgusting thugs have now faced the justice they deserved. Insurgent attacks are down to very few probably because of the "surge", and because Iraqi forces are beginning to understand and do what it takes to protect their own country.

Urban terrorism is an entire different kind of war that no organized military was entirely ready to battle at the start of the war. Now after these many long years in Iraq I think our military and that of the many other countries that were involved in Iraq are ready to fight urban terrorism. Terrorism is so unpredictable especially when these disgusting excuses for human beings take the form of innocent bystanders and children, and then blow themselves up.

And about the document mentioned, like MoonSpider said the document has hardly any evidence supporting your claims. You just want to believe it so much you can't see the truth, and summarize the paper based on your false assumptions, and beliefs.
Moonspider
handfleisch wrote:

Are you joking? The article cites "ignorance of the basic elements of Iraqi society and infrastructure". This can easily be described as "incompetence".


No, I am not joking. And “ignorance” is not a synonym for “incompetence”. Not even close. Now, if you believe that our “ignorance of the basic elements of Iraq society and infrastructure” is due to a lack of skill, lack of ability, ineptitude, or stupidity on the part of the military, administration, etc., then I understand your point. But I don’t believe either Glanz or Miller intended it to be interpreted that way. It is just what it is, ignorance.

handfleisch wrote:

The article also cites lying by the Pentagon as they inflated the number of competent Iraqi security forces, and since this happened repeatedly and served to justify their efforts involving massive military expenditures, can accurately be described as "corruption".


Lying is standard operating procedure in the military and a necessary capability of all members from Generals to privates when speaking with everyone from enemies to wives. But in this case I’d agree that it was wrong. However I don’t think it “served to justify their efforts involving massive military expenditures.” Quite the opposite, larger numbers of competent Iraqi security forces would be reason to reduce expenditures and troop levels, not increase them. The military leadership was simply attempting to hide its failures, just as the article stated. It doesn’t make it right, but I stand by the fact that the 513 page report never refers to Pentagon corruption.

The report is a “lessons learned.” The government and military do those for every exercise and event, from major military maneuvers and natural disaster recoveries to individual squads after a patrol in Afghanistan. What went right? What went wrong? How can we improve our performance next time around? They are not written to be blistering attacks upon anyone or any organization. They are open, candid, discussions. If they become clubs to be wielded by people who think others need to be whacked, then they lose their effectiveness, because no one involved in the events will want to speak candidly for fear of getting their noggin bashed later.

So put away the club and focus on what needs to be learned and where we can apply it (like Afghanistan, just as the article stated). This is a positive learning experience to be constructively used to improve future U.S. operations, not the foundation for a soap box.

Respectfully,
M
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