India Terror Attack - Rocks the metro "Mumbai" - The Financial Capital of India
The city witnessed a major terror strike on Wednesday with explosions and firing reported from several places.
More than 35 hours after the terrorists struck, there was a lull in Mumbai today as NSG commandos and security personnel closed in on Nariman House for a final assault and most of the residents chose to stay indoors.
The three places where the terrorists are holed up - Taj Hotel, Hotel Trident (Oberoi) and Nariman House - resembled battlezones with a huge contingent of police, the Army, RAF (Rapid Action Force), and the ATS (Anti-Terrorism Squad) of Maharashtra present on and around their premises.
For more news - please visit -
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/3761410.cms?TOI_mostemailed
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457885,00.html
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http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C11%5C28%5Cstory_28-11-2008_pg3_1
Last edited by indianinworld on Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:58 pm; edited 8 times in total The roads in South Mumbai, the city's financial hub which bore the brunt of the terror attacks, were deserted as they have been cordoned off for the final push to flush out terrorists and rescue hostages.
For the second day, wary people chose to stay indoors, hoping for an early end to the ordeal.
"My father did go to office today but I asked by mother to stay at home as her office is in Colaba. We have not switched off our television for I don't know how many hours," said 25-year-old Sunanda.
At Nariman House, the action seems to be nearing a decisive stage, as a huge build up for an offensive was witnessed.
For more news - please visit -
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/3761410.cms?TOI_mostemailed
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457885,00.html
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http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C11%5C28%5Cstory_28-11-2008_pg3_1
Last edited by indianinworld on Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total Atleast three batches of NSG black cat commados were airdropped on the Nariman House roof.
RAF troops and other gun-totting security men were guarding the Taj Hotel, where NSG Director General J K Dutt said that the operations were by and large over.
NSG have launched a room-to-room search at the plush Trident (Oberoi) hotel.
For more news - please visit -
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/3761410.cms?TOI_mostemailed
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457885,00.html
OR
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C11%5C28%5Cstory_28-11-2008_pg3_1
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Last edited by indianinworld on Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total With the shooting going on for such a long time I wonder how much ammunitions the terrorists had brought along. And how were they able to so much pass through security and all. Someone somewhere has a lot to answer now that questions like these are going to come up.
Apparently a lot of these ammunitions were brought in through the sea. I think Indian Navy would cease to be as lax as it apparently was. But then again its not like its their fault alone. Many security loopholes must have been exploited for the birth of a situation like this. The security needs to be tightened. And India needs to take some strong hand steps to show that it is not a willing victim.
Thank God its over now.
Don't know if India has learnt a lesson or if anything decisive would be done agianst terrorism.
Here are some shocking pictures of the incident :http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/11/mumbai_under_attack.html
Caution some pictures may be disturbing, not for faint hearted.
Is this another group of Muslims?
I am so sorry to hear about what happened to India...I pity to those innocent people....
| jwellsy wrote: |
| Is this another group of Muslims? |
Well i would say ...Terrorists are terrorists ...they have no religion ...because no religion teaches terrorism.
Some of them if not all were Pakistani nationals. They do call themselves Muslims. | surdy wrote: |
| jwellsy wrote: | | Is this another group of Muslims? |
Well i would say ...Terrorists are terrorists ...they have no religion ...because no religion teaches terrorism.
Some of them if not all were Pakistani nationals. They do call themselves Muslims. |
The authorities called them Fiyadeen - those who choose to die for the cause of Allah.
My deepest sympathies for those who suffered loss of dear ones in the attack.
At the same time I wonder if one of the hostages was Rahul Gandhi would the comandoes have attacked the way they did....?Too many people died in this. My deepest condolences to all who lost their loved ones. When such things happen, there's not much the people can do. These terrorists are out to kill and they often are not afraid to die. So there are always massive loss of lives. What the indian police can do is to learn from the Israelis on how to deal with terrorism. Improve their intelligence so that they may prevent future attacks and also improve their equipment.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5276283.ece This report says that the police were using first world war weapons when the terrorists were using AK47s. They have to quickly modernise their equipment and step up training so that next time, there could be minimal loss of lives. Just saw a headline saying they found bombs in the Indian train stations... =O
Could have been worse..
Now,since its over, it will be interesting to see how India react to it. Recently, India has demanded that Pakistan hand over 21 terrorists residing in Pakistan but Pakistan has refused to do so. I hope Indian government take some tough action this time instead of usual rhetoric.
If the Indian Govt really wanted to take any action, they could have had done so years back.
They are more interested in passing the blame, and sacking ministers.
Since elections are around the corner, all political parties are intent on using this incident to gain mileage.
SOME SHOCKING FACTS ABOUT THE INCIDENT!!
1. NSG commandos (National Security Guards - meant for protecting the country during internal emergency incidents)
Total of 4500 NSG commandos (all are posted in the capital!!)
Out of 4500, around 3000 are already busy providing security to VIPs, politicians, bureaucrats etc.
They are not provided with bulletproof vests and night-vision equipment.
The NSG have not been provided a single airplane/copter till date. They have to wait for an available plane to come down all the way from the capital city.
IT TOOK 9 HOURS FOR THE NSG TO ARRIVE IN MUMBAI FOR THE COUNTER-ATTACK!
A LOT of lives could have been saved during this time.
After the operation was successful, they were sent off in local transport buses (How stingy and lame can the Government be!)
2. Most police constables in all metropolitan cities in India are only provided sticks as weapons!
Whereas the terrorists are equipped with modern sophisticated weapons (provided by the Pakistan intelligence), satellite phones, nutritive supplements etc.
3. The state chief minister at that time while touring the area, took his actor son and a film director along. The latter was interested in making a film on the incident!!
No wonder the minister has been forced to resign.
Terrorism is real its an effect. For every effect, there should be a cause. So what's the cause of terrorist attacks against India?
Simple question but hard answers... And the most simplest answer is religious intolerance.
Quoting recent comments made by famous Indian actor Shar Rukh Khan, "There is Allah's Islam and Mullah's Islam". The same thing is turning true in case of Hinduism, at least in some parts of India and at least for some people... "Religion for God and God for Religion".
Are we losing our brains in the process of evolution??? Failing to distinguish light from the dark...
| vineeth wrote: |
And the most simplest answer is religious intolerance.
|
I think it is religious intolerance being manipulated by some agencies/state/people/organizations.
Only religious intolerance is pretty lame in doing anything, it is only when it gets training does it become dangerous. Also, the kind of brain washing thats done by these organizations, can convert even a normally moderate person into an extremist.There were many hot discussions on this topic in my community too.Finally it is the Government that is responsible for this. They had a news that there can be attack by sea route, but on this government answered in very funny way
" We had no Specific information about it" 
I dint get meaning of word specific, Whether the intelligence burro should have provided government with latitude Longitude coordinates of the route that terrorists are going to follow ?
Well i don't want to discuss other funny things and put Indian government name down in front of all of you.There is only one solution to this
There should be No interaction of Government in Police functionality,that is what not happening in India.
Till then such attacks will take place frequently, All Indians should get used to it. Yes, and even days after the incident has taken place, the state Government is only interested in preparing for the oncoming elections.
The best Sonia Gandhi could do was appoint her own CM for the state (without even taking any majority vote). And they call this a democracy!
There is no use in calling people to be 'united against terror' if the establishment is not ready to fight against it.
When over a billion Indians very well know that Pakistan is fully responsible for having planned and executed this terror attack and many others before this, what is the Government waiting for??
Why is the Pakistan Govt. not sent a strong message (through action)?
Why are we spending crores of rupees on maintaining our defence forces? For dressing them up for the Independence Day parade?
The defence forces should get more freedom and not be mere puppets of the corrupt Government.
Till such time, terrorists will come at their will and ****** Mumbai and other Indian cities.
And all Indian citizens will only light candles and stand 'united' against terror!
| prithvi wrote: |
There is no use in calling people to be 'united against terror' if the establishment is not ready to fight against it.
When over a billion Indians very well know that Pakistan is fully responsible for having planned and executed this terror attack and many others before this, what is the Government waiting for??
Why is the Pakistan Govt. not sent a strong message (through action)?
|
I guess thats because that is what pakistan want. The plan is simple. THey want India to attack pakistan on its eastern border and then citing that move its troops from western border to eastern border, serving two purposes. Firstly, it will save their asses from mujahideen and secondly, it will cause US to pressurize India to stop war. So, end result would be less casualties for Pakistan Army, truce of Pakistan with mujahideens, overturning of civilian government by ISI & military and with terror network still in place.While we are thinking of these theories, the theory doing the rounds across the border (fuelled by Pakistan news channels) is that Israel and Hindu extremists had planned this attack to bring Pakistan to war.
It all boils down to strengthening and equipping the national security forces (police, NSG, RAF and other paramilitary) and keep them ready for any incident.
The least the Govt can do is break all diplomatic ties with Pakistan.
No Indo-Pak cricket, no Pak celebrities allowed in Indian shows, no flights etc.
At this point of time, a strong message needs to be sent across the border, rather than dwell in the bookish theory of Indo-Pak 'friendship' which will take a lot of steps to materialize.
If terrorists have no religion, why are they buried with religious customs after being killed?
They should left out in the open for the vultures to feed on.
After the investigation process is over, the lone militant Qasab should be killed in a gruesome manner and aired across news channels.
I certainly am not going overboard here..............after all, we are quite used to seeing our own citizens being killed in hundreds, all shown on television. 
| prithvi wrote: |
While we are thinking of these theories, the theory doing the rounds across the border (fuelled by Pakistan news channels) is that Israel and Hindu extremists had planned this attack to bring Pakistan to war.
|
Yeah, we must praise them for their wild imagination
| Quote: |
It all boils down to strengthening and equipping the national security forces (police, NSG, RAF and other paramilitary) and keep them ready for any incident.
|
Absolutely thats crucial. But that is an interim solution. The final solution would be closure of all training camps.
| Quote: |
The least the Govt can do is break all diplomatic ties with Pakistan.
No Indo-Pak cricket, no Pak celebrities allowed in Indian shows, no flights etc.
|
I don't think that would affect Pakistan much. Our past experience has shown that, this doesn't work with Pakistan.
One thing which we can do is affect Pakistan where it hurts most. Pakistan is facing bankrupcy. It has requested huge aid from IMF to sail through this crisis. We should move UN to stop this aid if Pakistan doesn't act on LeT. Also, we should stop US from giving free 'Christmas Gifts'(pun intended) to Pakistan. Since 9/11 US has given 11bln$ to Pakistan. Ironically, most of which has gone in purchasing weapons against India instead of terrorists.
| Quote: |
If terrorists have no religion, why are they buried with religious customs after being killed?
|
Interesting point you made there. I haven't thought about this before. Thats surely a point to ponder over.
| Quote: |
They should left out in the open for the vultures to feed on.
|
Actually, thats a custom of Parsis. We cant disrespect Parsis by doing so.
Instead of that, I think there bodies should be used for medical research. Atleast they would be of some help to country. Plus we can do whatever experiments we want on them.We are agree terrorists are bad.
But who defines who is a terrorist-
The British defined many freedom fighters as terrorists and hung them too.
No I am not pleading for terrorists or terrorism, just trying to question WHY IS THERE TERRORISM?
| atul2242 wrote: |
We are agree terrorists are bad.
But who defines who is a terrorist-
The British defined many freedom fighters as terrorists and hung them too.
No I am not pleading for terrorists or terrorism, just trying to question WHY IS THERE TERRORISM? |
Yes, thats a classical question. It is said that "one man's freedom fighter is others terrorist". The only reason why America didn't realized that terrorism is a problem before 9/11 was because they thought of them like freedom fighters for kashmir.(Ofcourse, that was a misconception spread by Pakistan)
I think the current definition of terrorist in fact that a terrorist is one who kills innocent people.
For example, the freedom fighters of India never attacked general english public directly. Most of their attacks were against oppressive generals and officers of englishmen like say General Dyer.Agreed the Indian Freedom fighters never attacked the general populace. But the government still classified them as terrorists.
The Indian government has also killed many and dissapeared thousands in Kashmir, the noth-east and in central India classifying them as terrorists, extremists or naxalites.
It is clear that the initial warfare of all these so called terrorists, extremists or naxalites had been only army and government personnel.
The government reacted by bringing in more forces and after years the loci-standby still exists. Not because the government did not react forcefully, not because they have not given sops to the local governments but because the government did not think it important enough to tackle the problem at the political level.
Are these the seeds of today's terrorists ?
Was the Terrorist captured in Mumbai Circumcised??? ?
That would go towards a bit of doubt clearance!
Guys I was in that area a day before and I cannot imagine the things happened... When it was shown on TV I stood shocked with my nerves tightened.. I was not able to express myself for few hours after which I finally concluded I am all right and nothing happned to me.
These frequent terror attacks are creating fear in our mind. Now a days when I leave office in train I watch at each and every person with suspesion and all the bag which they carry as a potential threat to me... I believe others also feel that same.
There is no caracter cetfificate to terriorist.
Its time to unite against these people and show them that they have no rights to decide our destiny...
We cannot let them do what they feel.. they are not god or any messenger to god...
They do not have any right to kill...
| viraj wrote: |
Guys I was in that area a day before and I cannot imagine the things happened... When it was shown on TV I stood shocked with my nerves tightened.. I was not able to express myself for few hours after which I finally concluded I am all right and nothing happned to me.
These frequent terror attacks are creating fear in our mind. Now a days when I leave office in train I watch at each and every person with suspesion and all the bag which they carry as a potential threat to me... I believe others also feel that same.
There is no caracter cetfificate to terriorist.
Its time to unite against these people and show them that they have no rights to decide our destiny...
We cannot let them do what they feel.. they are not god or any messenger to god...
They do not have any right to kill... |
So true. I was in South Africa during some of the worst terrorism during the late eighties. Think they call it post traumatic stress syndrome. It leaves an indelible mark on a person. The feeling of safety that we take for granted just gets completely shattered.I feel like laughing now, After giving so many proofs to Pakistan Government that those Muslim terrorists were citizens of Pakistan, Mr Gilani is still saying that we want proof. HA HA HA
This shows either these terrorists are relatives of Gilani or they are his pets.
Well, One more thing that i heard from my relatives staying in Mumbai was very shocking.
Terrorists were asking hostages in hotel whether they are muslims or not, and killed first those who were not muslims.
This is very bad and shows the main intention of terrorists. Hope Allah will give some good sense to Gilani to take proper action against terrorism. i just feel bad to hear about that....many innocent people died...how could this terror attack be stopped??? we should not fight for each other...we should focus on how to solve this economic crisis that we are facing now a days.....
| Cddhesh wrote: |
They had a news that there can be attack by sea route
|
Unfortunately a lot of attacks happen like this, including 9/11. Warnings were sent to the president and government saying that an attack is imminent, but they all ignore it.
Very sad story indeed, India and Pakistan were never good friends, and this will cause lots of unrest in India and Pakistan. | Nick2008 wrote: |
| Cddhesh wrote: | They had a news that there can be attack by sea route
|
Unfortunately a lot of attacks happen like this, including 9/11. Warnings were sent to the president and government saying that an attack is imminent, but they all ignore it.
Very sad story indeed, India and Pakistan were never good friends, and this will cause lots of unrest in India and Pakistan. |
I think even if the warnings had been taken seriously, and security had been increased, that they would never have been able to anticipate the intensity and speed with which it would have come to Mumbai. The terrorists were seriously prepared, in fact knew the hotels better than the security people in the hotels themselves. The level of sophistication of the attacks were a million years advanced, so possibly the Indian Government as well as other Governments who are taking serious note of this, will have to up the level of sophistication of its own security forces to meet this new challenge.The attack on Mumbai is over. After the numbing sorrow comes the blame game
and the solutions. Loud voices amplified by saturation TV: Why don't we
amend our Constitution to create new anti-terror laws? Why don't we arm our
police with AK 47s? Why don't we do what Israel did after Munich or the USA
did after 9/11 and hot pursue the enemy? Solutions that will lead us
further into the abyss. For terror is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It thrives
on reaction, polarization, militarization and the thirst for revenge.
I am not arguing that we do not need efficient security at public places and
at vulnerable sites. But real security will only come when it is accompanied
by real justice, when the principles of democracy are implemented in every
part of the country, when the legitimate grievances of people are not
crushed, when the arms race is replaced by a race for decency and humanity,
when our children grow up in an atmosphere where religious faith is put to
the test of reason. Until such time we will remain at the mercy of
"patriots" and zealots.
may god bring peace to the souls of those who lost their lives.
and the news barons had a market day..
it is such a pity that the news journalists were whipping up hysteria and in such crass manner...
especially the woman from ndtv.... i forget her name. but all of the channels were equal in bad taste.
I wonder why they behaved like this when only the rich are targeted ... its not that people were not dying in India because of some attack or the other. | deanhills wrote: |
| Nick2008 wrote: | | Cddhesh wrote: | They had a news that there can be attack by sea route
|
Unfortunately a lot of attacks happen like this, including 9/11. Warnings were sent to the president and government saying that an attack is imminent, but they all ignore it.
Very sad story indeed, India and Pakistan were never good friends, and this will cause lots of unrest in India and Pakistan. |
I think even if the warnings had been taken seriously, and security had been increased, that they would never have been able to anticipate the intensity and speed with which it would have come to Mumbai. The terrorists were seriously prepared, in fact knew the hotels better than the security people in the hotels themselves. The level of sophistication of the attacks were a million years advanced, so possibly the Indian Government as well as other Governments who are taking serious note of this, will have to up the level of sophistication of its own security forces to meet this new challenge. |
True, but I was referring to 9/11, in which the US government was warned about an attack. Considering 9/11 was airport based, it would have been much easier to stop it if airport security was heavily increased.
Obviously there's no x-ray scanners when you walk into a hotel, it would have been trickier to pick out the terrorist out of the group of people. I highly agree with you deanhills, if we are to prevent and possibly stop terrorist acts we would need much more sophisticated technology, not the average gun and radio. | Nick2008 wrote: |
True, but I was referring to 9/11, in which the US government was warned about an attack. Considering 9/11 was airport based, it would have been much easier to stop it if airport security was heavily increased.
Obviously there's no x-ray scanners when you walk into a hotel, it would have been trickier to pick out the terrorist out of the group of people. I highly agree with you deanhills, if we are to prevent and possibly stop terrorist acts we would need much more sophisticated technology, not the average gun and radio. |
Think that is what really puzzled me about 9/11. Even at that time, airport security was very heavy, how much would it have had to be increased to pick up on the terrorists? What needed to have been in place that had not already been there?
Regarding the terrorists in Mumbai, they had inside information about the Hotels, knew the lay-out better than the Hotel's own security staff. So you can imagine how very well they had done their research, so much so that they were ahead of India's security people. Think that is what I meant, with the inside knowledge they had, even if the Hotels had been warned to look out for them, and installed additional X-Ray equipment, they would not have succeeded. It requires a new kind of counter-terrorism outfit.I dint get meaning of word specific, Whether the intelligence burro should have provided government with latitude Longitude coordinates of the route that terrorists are going to follow ?
Well i don't want to discuss other funny things and put Indian government name down in front of all of you.There is only one solution to this
| themarine wrote: |
I dint get meaning of word specific, Whether the intelligence burro should have provided government with latitude Longitude coordinates of the route that terrorists are going to follow ?
Well i don't want to discuss other funny things and put Indian government name down in front of all of you.There is only one solution to this |
See the problem has never been getting the intelligence, but in separating "real" intelligence from false ones. If you have 9 false intelligence with 1 real one, you have to decide on which ones to act. | deanhills wrote: |
| Nick2008 wrote: | True, but I was referring to 9/11, in which the US government was warned about an attack. Considering 9/11 was airport based, it would have been much easier to stop it if airport security was heavily increased.
Obviously there's no x-ray scanners when you walk into a hotel, it would have been trickier to pick out the terrorist out of the group of people. I highly agree with you deanhills, if we are to prevent and possibly stop terrorist acts we would need much more sophisticated technology, not the average gun and radio. |
Think that is what really puzzled me about 9/11. Even at that time, airport security was very heavy, how much would it have had to be increased to pick up on the terrorists? What needed to have been in place that had not already been there?
|
At the time of 9/11 there was no TSA. Airport screening was done by private and independent companies and with no national training or authority you have to agree that these workers probably didn't have sharp eyes. In May 2000 Argenbright Security hired untrained workers at Philadelpia Int'l, many of whom had criminal records. Is this what can be called "Very heavy airport security?" The same company controlled security at Dulles and Newark, both locations where the 9/11 hijackers passed through. On September 11, 4 hijackers had a metal detector alarm go off, the security personnel still allowed them through. At the time of 9/11, some hijackers didn't have any proper ID and still got through. Hmm... so many red flags... not heavy security at the time. | Nick2008 wrote: |
| At the time of 9/11 there was no TSA. Airport screening was done by private and independent companies and with no national training or authority you have to agree that these workers probably didn't have sharp eyes. In May 2000 Argenbright Security hired untrained workers at Philadelpia Int'l, many of whom had criminal records. Is this what can be called "Very heavy airport security?" The same company controlled security at Dulles and Newark, both locations where the 9/11 hijackers passed through. On September 11, 4 hijackers had a metal detector alarm go off, the security personnel still allowed them through. At the time of 9/11, some hijackers didn't have any proper ID and still got through. Hmm... so many red flags... not heavy security at the time. |
I thought that the aim of these terrorists had been to pilot the planes and that the most dangerous arms they had been carrying were their above average specialist training for that specific specialist job? So if there had been criticism it had not been so much about weapons, but about these highly trained terrorists with a specific mission who had (a) made it through the US border and (b) got through security into the planes (possibly a second time?) (international intelligence of that had only been shared a little while before the actual event had happened)? OK, I understand now that the security has been upgraded quite a bit, and thanks for the info, I learned something good here. But how would the contemporary equivalent of today's upgraded security checking system at the airports have been able to identify those terrorists at that specific time? When the knowledge had not been completely known or shared by everyone in the United States yet? It is to me almost the equivalent of the Mumbai situation, where there was not a good security system in place at the Hotels, but even if there were, the terrorists who attacked the Hotels had superior training, and knew more about the layout of the Hotels, than the people at the Hotels themselves?
I think the best and most superior security system after 9/11 was the United States pursuing the enemy in its home territory and collecting intelligence about the terrorists from where they are. I am not a Bush supporter, but this is one good thing that came from the US millitary intelligence services after 9/11. Security at the airports is crucial, but I think the greater security is to know who you are dealing with, and in that area the US has made a leap in progress by pushing the fight with the terrorists into the Middle East away from the US!
